Discussion in 'San Diego Long Range fishing Reports' started by ifish42na, Feb 23, 2016.
so back to fishing line. where do you buy your crimps? and what brands?
I dont know why I am responding to you but I am bored Your lack of understanding of the tackle business amuses me.
1. I dont care who supplies what to who for how they choose to make their living. Should I not buy a Caterpillar product because their engine is in that longliner you so despise. Or purchase a Mustad hook because that same longliner is using a 39960DT that so many LR fisherman use for their big bait circle hooks. Or the 50,000 hooks that Eagle Claw sold to a longliner group in Long Island NY? Not supposed to use any Eagle Claw hooks again am I? Maybe, just maybe Exxon/Mobil or BP or Shell or Phillips sold that longliner diesel. Buy a Chevy Volt. Grow up. Get over it.
2. Momoi products are made all over Asia. Indonesia, Japan maybe even China. Again I dont care. I have the cease and desist letter sent to me by Momoi to make sure my website and store clearly states that Diamond Products are not Momoi products. That evil enterprise Hi-Liner is private labeling some fluorocarbon and nylon monofilament they market as Illusion. ITs not plastic its Nylon.
Pretty sure at the very beginning the Illusion products were being made in Japan. In Taiwan a factory was making Sufix and Izorline products early on. Two more brands you should not buy.
Soft Steel is made by Gruppo SA. The largest monofilament manufacturer in Europe and the sub-continent India. Yes thats right India. So dont buy that stuff as well. Lord knows how much mono they have sold to Spainish, French, Italian, Portugese, Tunisan and Moroccan fleets.
3. No smoke screens. I sell as does every other hi end tackle shop sell Momoi products. You seem to think Hi-Liner is the largest supplier of longliners in the world not even close. I sell another brand of Mono made by a company in Korea thats primary market is gillnetters and longliners. I am happy to sell that brand as well.
In fact you should only use Berkley products. Because its the only brand of Mono and Fluorocarbon that makes products exclusively for the recreational market. And better yet - its all made here yes in the U.S.A. No evil importers to rattle your sensibilities.
4. Your issue with the braid that was mislabeled was again not what you think it was. Diamond braid is currently being made by Woodstock fishing lines right here in the U.S.A. Cortland had a run with it for a while. And yes Cortland may have made your line that was such a hemorrhoid for you. Some of its imported who knows where its all being made. Its all being re-labeled by Hi-Liner as Diamond Fishing products.
I dont want to confuse anybody here on BD, my fishing buddies and more importantly the place where the truth really lies - the world wide web. I sell products that are used by all kinds of people. Longliners, Gillnetters, Giant Tuna fisherman and yes Long Rangers. Many, of the brands or products used by all of us have some commercial application.
So again I am asking you politely do not include me in your vendetta against Hi-Liner as I dont agree with you. I did not ask for you to include me in your comments. I was just pointing out the fact that there are Momoi products and Diamond Fishing products. Both distributed by the same importer. But, very different products.
Good info John... I knew the Soft Steel Gruppo connection. I did not know Diamond Presentation fluorocarbon was not Momoi...
Thanks again for posting, learn a lot here at BD...
Trust me John when I say I've sold 1000 times more fishing tackle (both wholesale and retail) in my lifetime than you ever have or will in your lifetime so I know quite a bit more about the tackle biz than you give me credit for. And I am talking about an importer (Hi-Liner) that sells many products (not just one or two) under different brand names that they own in the USA: Momoi, Diamond Presentation, Hi Catch etc. to commercial long liners and gill netters, they are also selling numerous products to sport fishing retailers as well under the same brand names. Their website claims they are one of the largest distributors in the world to commercial long line fisherman... so take that up with Hi-liner if you disagree with that statement or believe it is false advertising. Hi-liner doesn't make anything, its all made in China and Indonesia other than their Momoi brand braid which used to be made by Cortland and is now being spun by Woodstock which are both here in the USA, and all of that product is labeled "Spectra" which is also made here in the USA as Honeywell USA has a patent/trademark on Spectra fibers.
My MAIN point is that the importer Hi-Liner is not paying attention to its product received from the manufacture that they contracted with as it relates to the label specs and published website specs for specific products... and when I challenged them directly (John, an owner) on that issue I got every excuse in the book and no real resolve to the problem at hand, and was then told after several months of BS and numerous attempts at communication by me to return the product I purchased to the retailer who sold it to me. So I then did some research on Hi-Liner to find out that their primary (not secondary) business is selling their imported products with their brand name on them to COMMERCIAL LONG LINERS and GILL NETTERS of the world, who I personally despise for obvious reasons, and hence the run around that I got from Hi-Liner being just a single "sport fisherman" who had a complaint (I'm sure there are other sport fisherman who had the same problem but most likely did not purchase the amount I did and did not go through the motions I did to get the problem rectified to their liking).
So bottom line here for me is if you wanna support companies primarily selling to and profiting from the LONG LINERS and GILL NETTERS of the world than go for it... I say FUCK them and the boat the came in on, and ZERO support from me! And hopefully other true "sport fisherman" who understand the serious problems that commercial long liners and gill netters cause to marine life and ocean structure in general will do the same. And some tackle retailers looking to make a profit on any thing they can may disagree with that stance... so be it, when it comes to retail support, I vote with my wallet, and encourage other conscientious and caring "sport fisherman" to do the same.
BTW John: Nylon is a "plastic"... technically a thermoplastic (so pardon my slang fish talk reference with regards to "plastic fishing lines").
Fine you got the last word. You must feel vindicated and satiated.
Just let me correct you on two points.
Momoi the name and company is not owned by Hi-Liner. Its an actual company that is Japanese in origin. Yes Hi-Liner is the current importer.
John Drouet is not the owner of Hi-Liner. He is the sales manager. Ed Gaw is the owner.
I think I will publish a thread here on BD once a week. Things you should not buy because commercial fisherman use them. It will be great fun.
Let me get back to something related to the original topic (much more boring than the previous posts BTW).
What are we to make of Pink Seaguar?
Is it Premier or is it Blue Label.
The 80 and the 100 diameters look eerily similar!
Blue Label formula, Premier diameter.
If you look at Blue Label diameters they are the stated same diameter as Premier but what is labeled 100 blue is same diameter as 130 Premier. Exc. exc. IMO you can not cheat diameter with tuna.
How Soft Steel is made by Gruppo is not really a big deal. The recipe of resins are specified by Soft Steel and produced with quality equipment by Gruppo. Sure beats relabeling a product of unknown origin.
I do not know what goes with Seguar Pink... Here is what Charkbait says about it.
As far as commercial fishing use of a product, personally I have zero guilt of using what works. In fact I observe what works for them.
Bill, that is the point. Products that are relabeled are just that. Good products that are being made by large manufacturers and marketed by independents.
I have a line of Fluorocarbon and Mono that is being done with as well.
Commercial fisherman catch fish. A good sport fisherman should adapt some of those techniques and products to their knowledge base tackle box.
So, John, this would be the Makai Deception Fluorocarbon and various types of mono on your website? Is Makai proprietary to TFT? I see Basil is planning on using it for BHP topshots.
Yes Makai is a brand we are having great success with. Strong, great abrasion resistance and available in big put ups (25# spools).
BHP is making topshots and windons with it as well.
Yeah maybe we should increase our odds by using similar products, but we will also then have to use similar fishing methods like stringing out a mile long line with hundreds of hooks on them so we can duplicate commercial fishing productivity (while of course tossing back any unwanted fish or other marine life that we killed along the way that were not targeted). Lets all support and duplicate that wonderful idea.
It would seem to me that if you wanted to "boycott" the commercial longlining and gillnetting industries you would boycott the tail end of the process - ie - the finished product (the fish at the market) because let's be honest, that is the only way as a consumer your actions will have a direct effect on the offender (the bottom line $$$). How exactly is boycotting a product (that is used by all types of fishermen both recreational and commercial) going to have any impact on the guys killing the fish stocks? Plain and simple. It isn't.
So, this was about a diameter of a product we are interested in. How the hell did it turn into a trash talk about longline fishing and gill nets?
I guess Bloodydecks is a lot like commercial fishing, no shortage of bycatch and cull.
Hey that's what happens when you have tackle dealers trolling for business on these forums... and those who knowingly support companies like HI-Liner that primarily sell to and profit from long liners and gill netters of the world, and who need to be exposed for who they truly are unless of course you want to spend your hard earned dollars on tackle that is going to further support long liners and gill netters. And Steve you have been on here longer and more regularly than just about anyone so you of all BD mega posters should know well by now that whenever a product is mentioned there is ALWAYS those who will respond with their own bias and/or experiences with different products so these threads often go off on tangents, and pissing contests begin, and if the poster is a "tackle dealer" or "tackle rep" they will generally favor (defend) products that they sell and that they profit from.
We were talking about a Yo-Zuri product here in a thread that was started by a "tackle dealer", but then Seaguar, Momoi, Diamond Presentation and other products got mentioned, we also got the pitch for Makai products (from a tackle dealer who obviously doesn't care who profits on the manufacture's end as long as he profits on his end). And yes there is always going to be products that cross over to the sport fishing industry from the commercial industry (that is a given), but the importer Hi-Liner that is selling Momoi/Diamond Presentation/High Catch sells MANY products (not just one or two) to long liners, gill netters and that is there PRIMARY business (they are one of the largest in the world supporting commercial fishing weapons of mass destruction) so my point was: since there are so many other good options for those fishing products available why should caring, conscientious "sport fisherman" support them?... "sport fisherman" are SECONDARY to them and they don't give a shit about us and their customer service towards us SUCKS! Thought you "sport fisherman" here on BD might want to know the TRUTH from someone who doesn't have any skin in the game, and who got burned from them as well (over diameter issues, the SAME topic of this thread)... so go figure and over analyze that too!
Over & Out.
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