White Seabass hatchery a failure

Discussion in 'Fishing Chit Chat' started by Done_Deal, Apr 6, 2018.

  1. MJB

    MJB I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Mark
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    sold it!!
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    They have no clue what the numbers should be.......it's mother nature

    It's helping more than hurting so keep at it!
     
  2. Done_Deal

    Done_Deal Member

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    In 1986 I created and operated the Santa Monica Bay Halibut Derby (SMBHD) for the purpose of funding fishing related charities. The two primary charities were the SMBHD Youth Fishing Program (which was 100% funded by the SMBHD) and the Los Angeles County Natural History Museum Halibut Hatchery Program. Both of these programs proved highly successful. The SMBHD Youth Fishing Program concept has been copied in most So. California harbors.


    The Los Angeles County Natural History Museum Halibut Hatchery Program developed the science needed to create a successful hatchery operation. In the U.S prior to this program there was no science available to even allow the scientists to differentiate larval flatfish by species. By the end of the program they had released over 5 million tiny (3/4” to 1”) into various Southern California locations.


    The hatchery program was primarily funded by the Los Angeles County Natural History Museum. The SMBHD was the single largest source of private funding. I do not know why the halibut hatchery program was discontinued, likely just had to do with reallocation of funding. The released halibut were “tagged” via a chemical process that stained their bones but I do not recall any data on returns. I would think that any data relative to the project would be in the possession of the Natural History Museum.
     
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  3. Saba Slayer

    Saba Slayer Saba Slayer

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    OREHP Meeting 4/10
    Kinda small meeting considering the recent Science review...Dallas Weaver, Bill Shedd, John Riordan, one commercial guy, myself, and a half a dozen folks on the conference call along with the DFW reps.
    Mark from Hubbs gave some info on what's happening at Mission Bay and Carlsbad and some numbers...
    114,320 released fish in 2017
    40,000 tagged and ready in Carlsbad
    31,000 in growouts along the coast
    At Carlsbad they've downsized the brood-stock tanks from 4 to 3 and established one tank for the young new breeders...we have about 50 fish that are 20 years old so Hubbs is looking forward to doing some brood-stock gathering this year to get some new blood in the tank.
    He discussed WSB larval studies, Walling behavior (bumping into the tank walls), Degassing systems (to get rid of the google eye that sometimes effects the fish) and some parallel Halibut research (Broodstock, Culture, Genetics, Lab Studies and a pilot release) Halibut stuff funded with the money from the Dick Laub grant that CCA helped establish.
    One interesting fact...cultured Halibut do not bury well in the sand...so perhaps some studies on raising with a sand bottom might be needed. There has been lots of work done with flounder in Japan so there is a lot of info available out there in academia.
    Mike from Hubbs was up next and he gave lots of numbers I won't bore you with about the gill net sampling and some studies in tag retention. He also talked about otolith sampling to gather info on the WSB. They have a couple of different methods involving cutting and counting the "rings" or grinding into powder and reading chemical markers and DNA. Otolith microchemistry is very expensive...!
    Mark Okihiro (the Senior DFW Fish Pathologist) was up next and he said there was a small outbreak with the Oxnard fish but it was under control...he then proceeded to trash the program...IMHO he has never been a supporter of the DFW's WSB program. As long as I've been in the WSB meetings he has never offered a positive outlook or positive advise. I don't get it...it's the Departments program...you'd think they'd put someone in there that supported their own program.
    Valerie the project manager from the DFW was up last and she talked about the budget and the funding which as usual is down...(one common comment from the Science Advisory Committee was about the lack of funding for the various aspects of the project).
    She will be informing the DFG Commission on the SAC review and the upcoming public meetings at the next commission meeting in Ventura.
    She also informed us that the DFW is contracting with Cal Sea Grant to put together these 3 meetings to inform the public and gather information on what the fishing community would like from the program and it's future. The meetings will be held in Santa Barbara/Ventura, LA/OC, and SD.
    The Department says that they are looking for public input on the future direction of the WSB program...we pay for the majority of the funding with our saltwater stamp and the legislature has determined that the funds should stay in the hatchery program unless WE the FISHERMEN want to change it.
    PLEASE ATTEND THESE MEETINGS TO HELP DETERMINE THE FUTURE DIRECTION OF THE WSB and The Ocean Resources Enhancement and Hatchery Program (OREHP).
    We ended the meeting with a discussion on the scientific review and WE AGREED TO DISAGREE...we did agree to have a special OREHP advisory panel meeting again in June after the public meetings with the chair of the scientific review committee in attendance to get some answers and hash out a few more differences.

    A WSB Fishery Management Plan meeting is this Friday with the DFW and it should be interesting to see the state of our WSB and any new reg changes that might be brewing...
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2018
  4. Blackfish

    Blackfish Fishing, a perpetual series of occasions for hope.

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    Maybe if they would have used that $40 million over the last 35 years to buy out ALL of the gillnetters off our coast, the over all improvement to the entire inshore/offshore species, besides just the WSB and Halibut, would have benefited???
     
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  5. Buttchaser

    Buttchaser Fresh One!

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    This topic is on this weeks western outdoors news , Page 20
     
  6. karlk1125

    karlk1125 Well-Known "Member"

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    They need to just ban the fuckers. Gill netting is gay :gay:
     
  7. Fiskadoro

    Fiskadoro Member

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    It's flawed methodology. This seems painfully obvious to me. Growing them in pens is a mistake. They should hatch them then release them immediately. Obviously fish that grow up in pens lack the skills necessary for life in the wild. Larval seabass develop in the plankton for about five weeks. They should release them in that planktonic stage in areas that they are known to be found so they then develop naturally with the instincts they need to survive long term. It would save time money and have a much higher success rate.

    Fish grown in tanks or pens only understand tanks or pens, this is why the tank grown butts do not know how to properly bury themselves.

    I appreciate the idea and all the effort but to succeed with a hatchery they are going to have to release those fish into the wild ocean in a non-imprinted larval stage. [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2018
  8. Saba Slayer

    Saba Slayer Saba Slayer

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    Jim Day...
    The hatcheries in South Carolina and Texas that raise Red fish and Sea trout release their fish when they are very small...I may be wrong but I believe it's less that 100 days...
    They also raise the fish in large ponds with brackish water that they pump in and they raise them on natural feed...
    Both those states strongly support their hatchery programs and fund them to be successful.
    Please show up at the public meetings and offer creative info such as this to Hubbs and the DFW.
    It's our program...we fund it...lets make it it what we want.
     
  9. Fiskadoro

    Fiskadoro Member

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    Yea I think the quicker they get them in the ocean the better.

    Honestly I think the funding is probably going to be pulled. I read that out of 2 million fish released they have had less then 200 adult fish captured. That's unbelievably bad. These fish are not salmon which re-imprint naturally when they get in the ocean. I'd love to help. Send me the info on the meetings and I'll drop by.

    Ever see the fish under the lights at MDR, and Dana? I bet those are all hatchery fish thinking if they hang out in the harbors they will get fed. Get the OK and we can catch some of those MDR fish and check for tags. Though they are under mostly under 28 they there are some full grown fish and they are easy to safely catch in release in that shallow water. I bet money those are all hatchery fish that just do not know how to survive in the wild.
     
  10. af dreamer

    af dreamer I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    FYI,I dont know anyone that turns in heads of the rec fisherman.A couple of them catch hundreds of Cbass.I have never turned one in myself.Al with the charter boat I think has turned some in but not sure.No turned heads in no good info.FWIW,Tom
     
  11. fishkilr

    fishkilr on the water

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    They used to get fed regularly by us and the Buddhists and were almost always around the bait dock when we had it in mdr .....
     
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  12. Saba Slayer

    Saba Slayer Saba Slayer

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    Jim Salazar
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    "Honestly I think the funding is probably going to be pulled."
    Sorry Jim...that's not so easy to do...this program and the saltwater stamp funding was established in 1983 by the California legislature with AB1414 that formed the Ocean Resources Enhancement Hatchery Program (OREHP)...funding is supplied by a special stamp paid for primarily by sport fishermen.
    That's why I say it's OUR program..
    .
    "No turned heads in no good info.FWIW,Tom"
    Thats the Truth Tom !
     
  13. Fiskadoro

    Fiskadoro Member

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    Good!! I want it funded.

    What has been the return rate on heads? Like how many have they scanned total? Do the commercials turn in heads? What percentage of their catch?
     
  14. sealskinner

    sealskinner Retired Pimp

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    Commercials don't give a rip about heads.
     
  15. lynndeva

    lynndeva Fishing mom

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    We need to get Mueller on this right away..in about 10 years he'll have it all figured out..just as soon as he figures out Stonehenge.
     
  16. Tom Honaker

    Tom Honaker Well-Known "Member"

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    Personally I didn't think it was that difficult, tag says take it to fish and game, fish and game says we know nothing about it! Not much to infer from that, except fish and game is inept.
     
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  17. sealskinner

    sealskinner Retired Pimp

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    WINNER WINNER!
    Chicken dinner
     
  18. Blackfish

    Blackfish Fishing, a perpetual series of occasions for hope.

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  19. Jig Stick

    Jig Stick Well-Known "Member"

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    Yup, kill the program and use the (surplus :/) money to paint the streets of LA white at $40G a mile. Sure the paint only lasts about seven years but look at what it might do for the environment (oops, I mean temperature) in LA and what it will do for a politician’s career. I know there’s a lot of miles of roadway in LA, but whatever, there’s plenty of money available.
    Our futures are all safe in the hands of politicians.
     
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  20. MikeyLikesIt

    MikeyLikesIt did you say F I S H I N G ???

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    great. another long, slow, useless goat and pony show on the horizon. :shake:
     

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