White fish- err... Rock fish open short report

Discussion in 'Southern California Inshore & Islands Fish Reports' started by Azarkon, Mar 4, 2019.

  1. Azarkon

    Azarkon I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Well, since we're on the topic any way now, I just did a look up.

    These are white fish numbers from the sport fleet:

    2013: 57549
    2014: 57873
    2015: 70335
    2016: 132982
    2017: 237514
    2018: 399798

    Still think I'm imagining it or "consistently wrong," fishkilr?

    Why don't you explain how white fish catches went up 700% in the past 6 years? Because the sport fleet just discovered them recently?
     
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  2. Captain bangout

    Captain bangout Newbie

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    can't be that quick to assume an entire fishery is dying. The banks have always been like that with the whitefish. The Rockfishes "moving" makes little to no sense. I'm not sure what moving means in that context. I assume you mean the Whitefish are outcompeting Rockfishes for their typical forage at the 150-240 feet (unlikely). Your choice of words is very important.
     
  3. Azarkon

    Azarkon I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    That's a fair way of putting it, thanks. But in my defense, I expressed worry, not alarm. My instinct is that nature is give and take. You can't have millions of white fish at 150 to 250 feet without any effects on rock fish. These two species do compete for the same resources, and the numbers above show that white fish are thriving. We've seen this process else where in California - purple sea urchins out competing red sea urchins, sardines and anchovies taking turns collapsing, etc. Rock fish are fortunately resilient and will survive the white fish explosion, but there could be years in which white fish are clearly dominant in that depth range.

    I find this more interesting than anything else; but certain people have a seeming agenda to push against trends that ought to be clear as day. I'll wait to see how they respond.
     
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  4. fishkilr

    fishkilr on the water

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    Yes....
    No one disputed that whitefish numbers were up ...
    Its your personal observations about how and why these numbers are changing that sound completely ridiculous ..
    Statements like sbi rockfishin is tough because there are only 2 productive shallow water spots are a joke...
    You said you went to tanner to fish rockfish for your first time ever and spew conclusions like you know how the bank bites...
    No one will argue with numbers ... it's your safest bet when giving info ...
    I've never seen anyone who posts get disagreed with more than you so yes you hold that title ...
     
  5. mhanson59hb

    mhanson59hb Fear No Fish

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    Whitefish seem like they are on the up-cycle to me as well. All my shallow (120 to 200 feet) rock fish spots at Catalina have been over run with them for the last two years. :cool:
     
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  6. KID CREOLE

    KID CREOLE I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Big lings like cold deeper water
    Water has been warm the last 5 years
    Is it possible they moved?
     
  7. Azarkon

    Azarkon I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    2013: 57549
    2014: 57873
    2015: 70335
    2016: 132982

    2017: 237514
    2018: 399798

    Notice when the increase started. El Nino ring a bell? Warm water? Local tuna and wahoo? Couple this with historical data of white fish expanding after El Ninos and you're taking issue with me making a pretty safe guess?

    In my personal experience. Doesn't make it "fact" any more than you posting the same pictures of 8 pound reds from the Redondo Special. Those aren't normal catches , but you bring them up again and again, so who's misleading people? And nobody ever said Santa Barbara Island rock fishing was "tough." I said the real estate for rock fishing was limited to a few spots, if you want to disagree, this is not how you do it.

    Being disagreed with doesn't make me wrong. Look up above for how many people said lingcod numbers weren't down. I started a thread about this topic in 2018 and got half the board saying "you're wrong"; "wait until winter"; "learn to fish." Now that the numbers are out, and the limits are halved, who's the one still standing?
     
  8. duckbutter6a

    duckbutter6a Florida man living in SoCal

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    I've only been doing this five years but I've seen bigger and more rock fish each year... I was catching nice sized reds while bass fishing near the kelp two weeks ago and releasing them. Alot more nice reds in shallow the last two years. Seeing alot more accidental ling cod as well.

    The fish are moving for sure but they are doing good.
     
  9. fishkilr

    fishkilr on the water

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    That pic has been posted 3 times in my time here and only when someone complains there are no good local spots anymore ..
    You say it's not a normal catch but for the small area that is known by a couple guys that are on the water everyday it is ..
    You can guess and speculate all you want... that is absolutely your right but when you do don't be surprised when many guys are critical of your observations based on your limited experience and outrageous statements...
     
  10. CaptJgray

    CaptJgray I've posted enough I should edit this section

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  11. Dave Hansen

    Dave Hansen Yoursaltwaterguide.com Advertiser

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    WOW...JUST WOW
     
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  12. Azarkon

    Azarkon I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    I welcome criticism. At least it generates discussion.

    What I don't appreciate is twisting my words, like accusing me of saying "sbi rockfishin is tough" when I said "I’ve discovered in the past that there is only one or two spots at that island that produce [rock fish] too," or that I was talking about fishing for yellows or WSB in a rock fish thread. For your information, I have never experienced "tough" fishing at any off shore island. What I have experienced is crowding at Santa Barbara Island due to a bunch of boats all wanting to fish the same spot at 120 feet. That's no accident.

    I don't have a problem with criticism like "what are you talking about, we're catching more reds than before local, there's no white fish party from 100 to 250 feet." I have a problem when you follow me from thread to thread just to say "you're wrong." That's a lie as I am obviously NOT wrong about at least two facts about the Southern Management Area: 1. white fish are increasing and 2. lingcod are decreasing. And while speculations are cheap and I treat them like brain storming, it's still basic courtesy when you call a speculation "outrageous" to say why it's wrong.
     
    Last edited: Mar 5, 2019
  13. Azarkon

    Azarkon I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    White fish are closed during the same time rock fish is. I don't think it has anything to do with closures or targeting or more party boats fishing, since rock fish catches have remained consistent in the last six years, but white fish numbers have increased 700%. I'm surprised more people aren't talking about this because it's one of the most drastic shifts in the benthic ecosystem.
     
  14. CaptJgray

    CaptJgray I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Ha! shows how often I fish whitefish...

    Interestingly I don't remember the last time I caught one...
     
  15. plj46

    plj46 I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    They are worse than Mackerel,throw them all back please.
     
  16. BobbyAgate

    BobbyAgate Member

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    Does anyone know why some whitefish taste good and some taste bitter? Is it their environment? Their diet? Age? Sex? Whether it was bled and iced down?
     
  17. mullet

    mullet Metal Fabricator

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    Sportboat whitefish counts increased and bass size limits increased and bag limits decreased .10 white fish on the cutting board are worth twice as much as 5 bass .Simple economics.
     
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  18. fishkilr

    fishkilr on the water

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    That's it for me ... I'm ooooouuuuuttttt!!
     
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  19. the SLIDER

    the SLIDER https://multimediabylj.com

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    Goodbye ^^^

    Normally I'd say bigger bait and hooks if in that situation, drop jigs. XL WF mouths pose a problem. These guys aren't big on fin bait so I'm surprised. Guess you were screwed.

    Should be 20 fish limit of these guys for a while and not included in the angler mix bag limit for rockfish.
     
  20. flyliner

    flyliner @therealflyliner

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    Sounds like a fun trip. The Tanner is a cool place. In my experience, the Tanner has always been loaded with big whitefish and salmon grouper. I don't remember ever having great fishing for reds out there.

    As for other areas, the more local spots and islands - the bottom fish seem to move around a ton. I like to fish shallow for rockfish - 100 to 160 feet max, and over the years have accumulated some nice little spots and pinnacles locally, as well as at Catalina, SBI, etc. Sometimes they are loaded with lings, sometimes loaded with big reds, other times big sheephead. This past year all my ling spots were infested with monster reds. Very strange.

    Another big key - and I think you missed this from Erik's report on SBI - often times I will meter tonnage of bottom fish - but they won't always bite - sometimes it is a current thing, bait thing, etc. The point is that just because the fish aren't biting doesn't mean they aren't there.
     
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