When to use: Solid or Hollow

Discussion in 'San Diego Long Range fishing Reports' started by Texlee, Sep 18, 2013.

  1. Texlee

    Texlee Well-Known "Member"

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    Is their some rule of thumb or valid reasoning when to use solid and when to use hollow braid when
    spooling up a reel?
     
  2. Delta Mike

    Delta Mike You like soup?

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    From what I know, hollow lays flatter than solid plus you can splice line into hollow which makes for smoother connections of different line.
     
  3. matrixx611

    matrixx611 Well-Known "Member"

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    Is there any performance advantage over the other?
     
  4. afraser

    afraser I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Some in the know say hollow sinks better and has less drag in the water for the bait. I'd rather use smaller line and keep the knot strength higher.
     
  5. eric harner

    eric harner Caliente Tuna

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    Mike looks like your covering all the bases for 10-11-13 !!
     
  6. matrixx611

    matrixx611 Well-Known "Member"

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    Yeah buddy! Lol just wondering. All my reels have solids. Dont know how to use hollow

     
  7. eric harner

    eric harner Caliente Tuna

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    Have solid up to 80lb . On my 30 VSW ( Dropper loop with 80 lb mono 100yd ) i do have 130 hollow. Haven't the time to do Cow trips 10-20 days those guys know the ropes on the hollow stuff . When I retire ( 7 more years ) then I'll learn a whole new game on Cow fishing !!!
     
  8. saltwaterfish

    saltwaterfish Well-Known "Member"

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    solid sinks faster, takes less room on the reel. if you are not going to splice, solid is all you need.
     
  9. 1BigTuna

    1BigTuna Newbie

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    People use hollow to get a smooth transition point when splicing to your leader material and should be very close or 100% line strength of your lowest rated line if spliced correctly. This comes in handy if you using >60lb line since knots (Uni to Uni, Albright, whichever you prefer) will be weaker at the joining point and may interfere with your guides when casting out or reeling line. This is the main benefits of using hollow braid. The hollow braid is a weaved nylon sleeve material and uses the "Chinese finger trap" concept where the sleeve tightens around the line material when pulled. They sell long guide needles to feed your line that you want to connect to the hollow and people use a synch knot or Sato crimp to hold the hollow in place (note: this is only to keep the hollow from sliding and should not be the load point). They have 60lb hollow and lower but these are a real pain to splice due to the narrow size and generally a Uni to Uni knot won't result in a knot that big. I see the only benefit is that you can change between 40-50-60lb flouro lead material by just splicing onto your 60lb hollow. The benefits go up as you go for the larger fish like Cow Tuna where you want a strong connection and don't want that big knot at the connection point.

    Hollow line and the tools used are also $$$ so you must consider if you are willing to spend the time/money to invest in your setups. Popular hollow brands are PowerPro, Blackwater, Jerry Brown (JB is the one I prefer if you can find it), and new cheaper one called Toro Tamer. If you are going to use hollow in multiple setups then I'd recommend buying the Sato Crimp Kit since it will save you time and you can splice on the deck with enough practice. Another way of cutting cost is to have solid braid as the main spooled line spliced to the hollow (100-150 yds), and spliced to your leader material. You just have to change out/splice the leader material and it should last you a few seasons worth of fishing.
     
  10. ReelDealAngler

    ReelDealAngler Born To Fish

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    IMO there are 5 factors that are for sure when using today's super braids on your fishing reels:

    1. They provide much greater line capacity to that of mono/copolymer lines of equal pound test (as stated on label or the true ABS).
    2. They do not stretch nearly as much as the mono/copolymer lines of equal pound test (generally less than 4% stretch).
    3. They have zero memory and are less effected by water and air temperature (within the realm of fishing temps) than the mono/copolymer lines.
    4. They generally last considerably longer (if not damaged when fishing) than the mono/copolymer lines of equal pound test (6-8 years life is fairly normal).
    5. They do not have as good as "abrasion resistance" as the mono/copolymer lines of equal pound test (more susceptible to failure when getting nicked or scraped by fish, boat hull, sharp structure, etc).

    With regards to Solid vs. Hollow they each have their pluses and minuses depending on who you ask and how they are used in specific fishing applications. IMO, when being used for west coast sport fishing applications: Solid fishes better, it casts better (it is more round), when spooled on tight with a proper line winder you can get 10 to 12% more solid on a reel than you can hollow, it is less effected by wind and current when fishing live bait on the surface, and it is less in cost. For leader attachment I like the Bob Sands knot for under 80lb and when using shorter casting leaders with connection knot outside my tip and I like the Sebile knot for over 80lb... both knots a very strong and fairly easy to tie properly once you get the hang of tying them (Sebile knot takes longer (more complicated) but is worth the time and extra effort on the larger diameter, higher pound test leaders as it is one of the lowest profile knots for this application and when tied properly is strong and reliable). The other way to attach leader to solid braid is to splice in a section of hollow braid via various methods to the end of your solid (I like either the Sato crimp with glue for the solid to hollow connection or when line is being used for casting purposes a double serve using two nails knots and glue connection) this allows you to then insert your leader into the end of the hollow which provides a strong more streamline leader connection to your main line without the need of tying a knot.

    The main advantage that hollow braid provides the angler IMO is the ease of splicing it. You can replace a bad section of it easier, can step up pound test if you so desire easier, can insert into the end of it for a smoother more streamline connection to your leader or top shot. It is more expensive though, also requires splicing tools. There are other factors to consider with hollow as well like weave strands (12 or 16) and coatings used in manufacturing process which both can have an effect on ease of leader insertion and the overall strength and durability of the line.

    Tight lines and blue skies!
     
    Dan33 likes this.
  11. HermosaJoe

    HermosaJoe Well-Known "Member"

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    Yep. That's why some of the guys who filled their reels with hollow switched back to solid. Like me. :)
     
  12. stairman

    stairman ......

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    The splicing tools aren't expensive ....take some 30lb or so single strand stainless leader and bend a four foot section into a very tight 179 degree bend. Work that up inside the hollow and poke it out the side when you have enough to make a splice...you can also use this to open up the hollow to allow easier insertion of the mono for leaders....then just a bow string server for less then forty bucks and make a jig to hold the splice while you sevre it..
    my total set up for making cow leaders ran less then fifty bucks....which by the time you make fifty leaders amount to a buck a piece not counting the leader itself
     
  13. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    Solid Spectra Diameters for TufLine XP


    [TABLE="width: 600"]
    <tbody>[TR="bgcolor: #FCFDFE"]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"][/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"][/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"][/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"][/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"][/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: #FCFDFE"]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]40 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]10 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]54 LBS[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.012[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.300[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: #FCFDFE"]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]50 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]12 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]61 LBS[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.013[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.331[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: #FCFDFE"]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]65 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]15 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]76 LBS[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.016[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.407[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: #FCFDFE"]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]80 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]20 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]96 LBS[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.018[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.458[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: #FCFDFE"]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]100 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]20 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]108 LBS[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.019[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.483[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: #FCFDFE"]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]130 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]30 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]147 LBS[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.023[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.585[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: #FCFDFE"]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"][/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"][/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"][/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"][/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"][/TD]
    [/TR]
    </tbody>[/TABLE]

    TufLine Hollow Spectra Information

    [TABLE="width: 600"]
    <tbody>[TR="bgcolor: #FCFDFE"]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]40 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]10 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]53 LBS[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.014[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.356[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: #FCFDFE"]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]60 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]12 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]81 LBS[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.016[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.407[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: #FCFDFE"]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]80 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]15 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]135 LBS[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.020[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.508[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: #FCFDFE"]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]100 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]20 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]140 LBS[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.021[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.534[/TD]
    [/TR]
    [TR="bgcolor: #FCFDFE"]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]130 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]30 LB[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]181 LBS[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.026[/TD]
    [TD="bgcolor: #DDDDDD"]0.662[/TD]
    [/TR]
    </tbody>[/TABLE]


    The diameters are so close arent we really splitting hairs here? Yes you will get slightly more line on your reel. But you get much higher ABS so you can fish higher drags if you wish with hollow.

    The material is all the same spectra is spectra its sink rate may be better because its solid? When hollow is under tension it wants to close the hollow space. Thats why the finger trap works so well. And if it does sink better, arent there situations where the bait on the surface could conceivably fish better? And sinker fishing is well sinker fishing. Doesnt much matter about drag when you are sinker fishing.

    I have not seen any testing but only anecdotal information that solid casts further than hollow. If solid casts further than hollow, whats the performance difference? 5,10,20% ?

    Hollow is more expensive than solid.

    Connections made with hollow can be made close to or at 100% much easier than solid. Splicing, loop to loop and nail knot topshots are fast and secure. Solid - knots that can be tied incorrectly with far greater frequency than hollow.

    I have used both. Caught cows on both. I cant see the difference in the fishability of the two. I do see more connections and more chance of failure with solid to hollow connections. I also dont like relying on knots. I use the loop to loop connection. Many use the finger trap splice connection. Both of those systems offer repeatable levels of strength for topshot connections that knots cant.

    JMO your mileage may vary greatly.
     
  14. ReelDealAngler

    ReelDealAngler Born To Fish

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    Hey John,

    In my way of thinking the major difference between the two types of braid fishing line offered today is that Solid is more round and Hollow tends to flatten out under pressure or when laying dry on the top of your spool. The reason you can get 10 to 12% more solid on a reel when line is packed on tight is it is "rounder", and based on personal experience I have found that solid does not dig into itself (under load) or tend to hang up on itself (when casting) as much as the hollow does. IMO solid flows off a conventional reel better with less friction (not catching on itself as much) as it rolls off your spool (I always wet my braid prior to casting as it helps lubricate the surface as the surface of a braided line is not as smooth or as slippery as the mono/copolymer lines)... with that said manufactures of super braids have come a long way with coatings over the past few years which has greatly improved casting performance compared to that waxy finish that was applied to braided fishing lines in the early days of production. When comparing diameters and ABS between the two types you also have to consider that hollow is produced in 12 strand and 16 strand versions which will have an effect on diameter, ABS, as well as cost.

    With regards to connections (ease and strength), I believe that the Sebile knot when used with solid braid and performed properly is very strong and reliable... it also has as slim of a profile as the Sato crimped or served hollow connection as the Braid is actually being wrapped around the leader (mono or fluoro) with NO knot ever being made in the leader material... the guys who perfected the Sebile claim its a 100% connection if tied properly (who knows?... but even it's only 75% and I am fishing 100lb string and leader I'm not going to break it pulling on it with a fishing rod), the Sebile also flies through your guides on the cast as there is no connection knot ("bump") on the front end of the connection (both tags are on the rear) and very little on the back end when coming back through your guides. Like all leader/top shot connections, even the hollow insertion method using a serve of Spectra and glue or a Sato crimp and glue they need to be performed properly and then tested before hitting the water or failure can and will occur. Have to remember that solid braided fishing lines have been around a lot longer than hollow braided lines have, and many cow size tuna have been landed on solid braid using numerous knot connections to leader/top shot (some bulky - some not so bulky, some easy to tie - some not so easy to tie )... in fact the largest YFT taken on an LR boat under IGFA regulations (where line, leader and connections are carefully reviewed) was taken in 2010 by a novice cow angler using 100lb "solid" Spectra to 100lb mono top shot connected via an old school knot, and that bad boy went 405.2lbs on a "certified" scale.

    Like I previously stated, splicing in a section of hollow braid on the end of your solid braid main line is an option as well (some good methods of doing this that have proven to be strong and reliable when performed properly, and they are not super complicated with the need for numerous tools and/or devices to complete the job).

    To each their own as they say...

    For those interested... Basic Sebile knot video (no tools needed... just want to note that some improvements have been made to the knot since this 4 year old video was made, but IMO the improvements are options based on personal preferences in securing tag ends with glue, etc. rather than proven strength improvements on the basic knot itself): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1N0mCf0AIAA

    Tight lines and blue skies!
     
  15. qtrracer

    qtrracer Member

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    Not sure why some are using the blanket statement that solid is thinner than hollow, it's not always true. Just comparing JB Solid to JBH, the 60/65lbs comparison .406 for solid and .381 for hollow. At 80lbs they are the same .457 but at 100 lbs JBH is much thinner again .433 to solid's .508. I understand about the differences in the abs but for most guys we just choose line based on ratings.
     
  16. eric harner

    eric harner Caliente Tuna

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    Thanks very informative ...
     
  17. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    Sebile, PR, Slim Beauty, Bimini Twist all great KNOTS! I can splice a loop and install a windon in less time than it takes to tie just about all of the knots I listed. I know the loop to loop is 100% (yes some techies will argue that statement) its small strong and you know what its not - a KNOT.

    I have no issues using knots on anything from 50# and down. I tie the Bob Sands, Uni - Uni with no issues. On the big stuff no knots thank you.

    No right answers. If anyone wants to tie a knot at night with the weather up and the bite is on, knock yourself out. I will just do my loop to loop that I cant screw up and have complete repeatable confidence in my connection.

    You say "Tomato" I say Tomato.
     
  18. jbs49

    jbs49 Newbie

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    I have switched to hollow on all my lighter 60# outfits and below, but not totally I spliced/inserted appx 100 yrds of hollow on top of the solid, doubling the solid inserted using the double nail and nub connection. I just like the clean transition with insert connections over any knot, plus your closer to 100% than any knot. Changing out leaders up or down in test in easy with a little practice using loop to loop, Sato or nail/nub transition connections. Just a clean connection and near 100%.
     
  19. ReelDealAngler

    ReelDealAngler Born To Fish

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    John,

    How are you connecting the mono/fluoro leader or top shot to your loop to loop wind on? The loop to loop wind is 100% or close to it if done properly but the connection to the leader or top shot is not generally 100%, and it has to be performed properly or there is a greater chance of failure on that end. Loop to loop is the fastest way to change out your leader or top shot wind on for sure, and you pretty much have to use hollow core braid to make a loop in your main line without using a knot... I personally have never cared for the extra thickness that a loop to loop connection has (my hang up I guess), when using hollow core I just splice my premade leaders or premade wind on top shot into my main line via an inline splice on the larger stuff which takes a bit longer but is truly 100%, that way my mind doesn't have to think about that loop to loop connection failing or hanging up on my guides (even though the chances of that happening are very slim when reality sets in).

    With regards to re-rigging at night or on a rolling deck my thought on that is just grab another outfit from the rack if the bite is fast and furious, I believe that most serious LR anglers especially those fishing for cows where the price of admission is fairly high these days will tend to have their own back up outfits for 100lb and 130lb live bait applications (some anglers I know and have fished with have triplicate outfits in the most commonly used applications when fishing for larger grade tuna from a LR boat), for most guys back to back cows will be tough enough, however I could see some guys going back to back to back (three-peat as we like to say here in Laker land) before calling it quits and taking the time to sit down and rest, and then properly re-rig their terminal in a more calm non panic manner.

    Tight lines and blue skies!
     
  20. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    Amazing. Thanks so much for telling me a loop to loop connection will get hung up in my guides.

    I am a better fisherman and rigger after reading that prose.

    And some of us LR fisherman live on the other coast and "triplicate" outfits are not practical since shipping is as much as a few days on the boat. So we bring what we need and re-rig as necessary.

    I feel like you are speaking down to me and other people who are accomplished anglers and know what we speak about. You are not informing you are lecturing with anecdotal and unsubstantiated information.

    Please stop.
     

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