when does

Discussion in 'Hunting Discussion' started by Sluester, Nov 12, 2013.

  1. Aggro

    Aggro Keepin my pimp hand strong!

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    I'm already planning the next trip with my son in a week. He is stoked stoked stoked. Next year he shoots the first Deer we see no matter what.
     
  2. Tues

    Tues Not my job...

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    What she said! Well said.
     
  3. BOWUNTR

    BOWUNTR Member

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    X100.... well said. Ed F
     
  4. el Toro

    el Toro I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Good stuff right there!
     
  5. Blackfish

    Blackfish Fishing, a perpetual series of occasions for hope.

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    spot on.
     
  6. Mesmashy

    Mesmashy Newbie

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    Had to close the gap considerably twice this year, didnt feel comfortable shooting 600+ yards. Spent my season crawling through cactus and lowering my profile sucking up against shaded rocks for cover. But was able to close them both in to 265-300 yards, more within my comfort zone. So i agree with earlier comments regarding "knowing your rifle" and knowing your own "abilities." Just as long things are kept ethical and looking back the hunt seemed ultra badass and it was a clean success. Hunt on
     
  7. Bendo28

    Bendo28 Member

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    boom goes the dynamite
     
  8. Rodless_Jim

    Rodless_Jim I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    A discussion about hunting ethics is interesting to me, because I come at it from a slightly different perspective. I'm not an especially religious person, but I am a bit spiritual, and my religion (I'm Jewish) forbids killing solely for sport. Killing for food is allowed, of course. But beyond that distinction, Jewish tradition is mostly silent. We are expected to consider and decide for ourselves how the stricture applies.

    Where I fall in terms of hunting itself is pretty basic: if I am going to eat it, I can hunt it. I can extend that to If I am going to feed others with it, I can hunt it.

    But I can't keep a physical trophy. That would be wrong as I see it.

    I can kill a Buck or a Bull Elk, a wild hog (I don't keep kosher, so why not?), or whatever, but I can't keep the mount. No rack on the wall either. Photos? Sure, I'll take some. But in order for the hunting to be ethical for me, it has to be about killing something to eat, and not about having a momento of the experience.

    I'm pretty sure some people are going to want to take issue with what I have just written. I remind you that Jewish tradition is pretty silent on the subject, except for the "only for food" part. This means that, as a Jew, I am obliged to decide for myself what is right and wrong.

    Now the original question was "where (at what distance) does hunting become shooting?" For me, that limit is probably around 350-400 yards, but hunting at that point turns into just watching. At this point in my life, I don't think I could make a shot over 400 yards if the entire universe depended on it. I wouldn't pull the trigger over 300 yards unless I felt like everything is in my favor. And truth to tell, I plan to shoot at 200-250 yards, and no farther.

    There was a time when that wasn't true. I used to hang out with some retired Marine benchresters at the KD range at MacDill AFB in Tampa. No, I wasn't in the service, but I had permission to be there. With the coaching of those great riflemen, and using their fine-tuned rifles, I could shoot into 6" at 800 yards. But that wasn't me at all...that was kind old experts teaching a punk kid to use fabulously accurate rifles. I've never imagined that I did much more than pull the trigger then. I'd be an idiot to believe I could come close to that kind of shooting now.

    So for me it's just hunting, and my limit is 400 yards.

    For the guys earlier in the thread who commented that quail and pheasant are hunting, while doves and ducks are shooting, for the most part I agree with you. I think duck hunting is mostly a matter of shooting, but there is an art to finding the right place to hunt. Experience can solve that for most, but if you are on your own, hunting a new area, there's quite a bit of skill involved in setting up your blind and decoys. Other than that, yeah. It's just shooting.
     
  9. Werfless

    Werfless Hugh Mann

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    wonderful thread.. as for when hunting becomes shooting, let me say I have SHOT maybe 20-30 whitetail deer in my life, NEVER have I hunted one.. shooting into a herd of deer from a hayloft from 120 yards away with an FAL/35 rd banana mag isn't hunting, it's crowd control, and a favor to an old friend.. but.. when I was starving in the swamp in LA with my single shot 20 ga killing nutria to roast over a fire while I was catching snakes is about the most pure hunting I can think of.. yes, I love eating rodents, does that mean that shooting a hare at 30 yards with a pump gun isn't hunting? maybe it's not socially acceptable (in the hunting community), but I don't care, they are delicious and I eat every jack I can find/hunt/kill with any weapon at hand. So hate me, but that is hunting to me... there is totally an art to getting the jackrabbit to stop and look over his shoulder (with a rifle at any reasonable distance), or breaking from cover at close range and turning the hose on with a shotgun, that most people that get caught up in 'the hunters mentality' never truly understand.. most of the hunting in my life has been done with single shot firearms, sometimes backed with a black powder revolver, but i would bet that 80% of the furballs/fowl that have made it to my stew/crock/fry pan have been taken by single shot firearms or hand weapons of various types.. once upon a time, clubbing in some big city meant harvesting beavers with hand tools after dark.. a more pure hunting experience, i'm not sure I could imagine..
     
  10. Werfless

    Werfless Hugh Mann

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    wonderful thread.. as for when hunting becomes shooting, let me say I have SHOT maybe 20-30 whitetail deer in my life, NEVER have I hunted one.. shooting into a herd of deer from a hayloft from 120 yards away with an FAL/35 rd banana mag isn't hunting, it's crowd control, and a favor to an old friend.. but.. when I was starving in the swamp in LA with my single shot 20 ga killing nutria to roast over a fire while I was catching snakes is about the most pure hunting I can think of.. yes, I love eating rodents, does that mean that shooting a hare at 30 yards with a pump gun isn't hunting? maybe it's not socially acceptable (in the hunting community), but I don't care, they are delicious and I eat every jack I can find/hunt/kill with any weapon at hand. So hate me, but that is hunting to me... there is totally an art to getting the jackrabbit to stop and look over his shoulder (with a rifle at any reasonable distance), or breaking from cover at close range and turning the hose on with a shotgun, that most people that get caught up in 'the hunters mentality' never truly understand.. most of the hunting in my life has been done with single shot firearms, sometimes backed with a black powder revolver, but i would bet that 80% of the furballs/fowl that have made it to my stew/crock/fry pan have been taken by single shot firearms or hand weapons of various types.. once upon a time, clubbing in some big city meant harvesting beavers with hand tools after dark.. a more pure hunting experience, i'm not sure I could imagine..
     
  11. Fresh One

    Fresh One Well-Known "Member"

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    Speedgoat pretty much summed it up (Damn, dude, where have you been???). To each his own most of the time but I do think there are exceptions to this. Uncle Ted and that Nimrod Pigman shooting hogs from a helicopter with fully auto ARs is not hunting, not in a million years - and to insinuate that something like that is "hunting" defies common sense. Outside of that type of BS, if its legal, go for it and call it hunting if you can live with it. Every man has to look himself in the mirror.

    For me, I do lots of different types of "hunting". I put that word in quotes for a reason, to me, there are differing levels of hunting and I recognize that. Some of what I do, I personally consider closer to shooting (i.e. bowhunting Africa over a waterhole (which was a shit ton of fun), shooting deer on a corn pile in Texas, etc...) than hunting but that is just me. I find myself telling people, "it was more of a shoot than a hunt" when I discuss certain trips like the one I took to Africa. Not because I am worried about what they think, but because deep down, I know what it meant to me personally and I don't want to portray certain trips as "hunts" because to me, they were not. I like to shoot things, I have fun doing it. I also like to hunt things, and to me, personally, there is a clear difference.

    I still remember the first pig I snuck in on at Tejon Ranch. Glassed him, stalked in to 75 yards, boots off, into 20, shaking like a leaf, dead. I remember walking up on that 150# boar and tearing up. Yeah, you know when you are hunting versus shooting.... If you have a soul and you get to experience both types, you will know where your own personal line is drawn.

    I also got emotional after bowhunting antelope in WY solo for 4 days and having several close calls and pulling out the rifle on the last day of my hunt and dropping a nice buck at 250 yards. Was shooting it with a rifle at 250 yards a challenge, not really. But what made that trip a true "hunt" in my heart was the fact that I struggled for 4 days, alone, just me and the antelope, me trying to get the best of them and them winning, and me finally taking a nice buck with my rifle on the very last day. Shooting that buck with a rifle didn't turn my "hunt" into a "shoot" or cheapen it in any way because I worked my ass off for 5 days for that buck. I still remember tearing up as I packed him out on my back all the way to my truck.

    I don't know fellas, to me its clear cut. There is no clear definition of a hunt versus a shoot because people are different, but just because there isn't a one size fits all answer, doesn't mean there isn't an answer. Each man is different, but I would venture to say that anyone here who has experienced both a hunt and a shoot damn sure knows the difference for them personally. And if you don't, you are probably only doing one or the other.

    Damn good thread.
     
  12. Peteb

    Peteb newbie my ass

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    I don't consider myself a hunter although I have killed animals in the past for dinner when I lived in the woods.that being said this has been a most enjoyable read. Thanks
     
  13. okie man

    okie man I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    couple things to keep in mind when judging other hunters for their way of hunting . people hunt different ways in different places. they hunt pigs in texas lots of ways that most other states would never allow. helicopters, trucks with flying bridges, spiral fences with feeders in the middle. full auto guns with high capacity mags at night with night vision scopes. it's ok in texas. hell, they can't kill enough of them . now comparing that to shooting a introduced species on a pay to hunt private game farm in a state that has more people than wild game animals really isn't fair. why we hunt and the way we hunt is a personal thing as far as i'm concerned. you want to shoot a pig in a cage with a high power rifle, knock your self out. not for me but what do I care. want to shoot a bear over a pile of food? do it if legal. I will tell you this, walking a half mile in total darkness to a stand over a bait pile is about as butt puckering as hunting gets!
    the boundaries of what is allowed and not allowed have been set and defined by the states game and fish department. as long as you follow those rules I say do what you feel is right for you. lot's of rifle guys say they see way to many animals wounded by poor archery shots. the archery guys say rifle guys wound too many animals by shooting at them from too far away. who's right ? who's wrong? who get's to police it? we have to use our heads and be responsible hunters no matter where and how we hunt.at the end of the day as long as you feel you done it right that's all that matters.
     
  14. Fresh One

    Fresh One Well-Known "Member"

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    Shooting pigs with full auto weapons from helicopters isn't hunting. Its called pest control. There is a big difference. I'm not knocking it, they have an issue with pigs in Texas. But its not hunting. Its extermination.
     

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