What happened to the Prowler?

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Steve K

Hey, I'm gettin' bit...
Jan 2, 2005
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18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
Rick, you should probably go write a novel, skip all the suppositions and maybes, and leave it to the Coast Guard.
 

zman91

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Sport boats didn’t have AIS until a few years ago, and they didn’t crash or get crashed into. I have seen guys on watch just sit there and stare at the AIS until they are a 1/4 mile away and say good, we have a .05 mile CPA, instead of picking up the binos, assessing making a clear maneuver and easily avoiding even a close call. After seeing this many times I felt like it was going to cause more unsafe situations then without it. Not like AIS is magic...
 

mrkrabs

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Mar 3, 2009
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This is why this thread got so fucked up. 500 different opinions. The only thing we should be thinking about is the 2 fishermen that died and there families and the injured. Everything else can just run its course. Prayers sent to everyone involved. mrkrabs
 

zman91

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Well
Or maybe this. The captain and crew of one boat, so exhausted from two days fishing, are headed back to port. they are so exhausted, they forget to turn their AIS on, even if they had one. The other boat, has a very well rested, and well trained crew, with a captain who has an absolute dream job. He didn't get, or keep, that job by cutting corners. He is heading south at 13 knots -- well under his typical displacement speed and appropriate for the conditions. Because the vessel is in a congested area, the captain and a watch stander are both at the helm. Their AIS is on, as are all of their several radars, and collision avoidance is running on each. They get a number of alerts keeping a careful eye on each that presents any risk of collision. One boat in particular is showing up on radar but not AIS. Without AIS collision avoidance data, they must rely on radar alone. They try repeatedly to hail the other vessel, If that other vessel had its AIS active, they could hail by name (or better yet, place a DSC call, which will cause the other vessels radio to beep loudly until answered), but without that information, they are left to hail "unidentified vessel on a heading of XXX, at location XX lat / YY long, this is Attessa off your port bow". Unforunately, there is no answer, but if both vessels maintain their speed and course, they will pass safely, port-to-port. Even so, Attessa continues attempts to contact the other vessel, while also keeping an eye on all other traffic.

Because Attessa's radar is so high, it cannot detect other vessels withing about 400 feet of itself. But, the other vessel continues on a course that permits a safe port-to-port crossing. As the other vessel approaches Attessa, now within 400 feet of it, its crew suddenly notices Attessa, possibly on radar, but maybe its lights. Being disorieted, the other crew turns hard to port, thinking that is necessary to avoid a collision, but inadvertently exposing its starboard side to Attessa. Attessa makes visual contact moments before impact and itself turns hard to port, thereby minimizing the damage that would otherwise have been done.

I find that as plausible as the therry that Attessa's entire bridge crew was asleep while transiting Point Loma.
Well sounds like in this situation I would of reduced speed and changed course once I realized that the give way vessel didn’t make evasive maneuvers or respond to hailing on 16, especially If I knew I couldn’t see the vessel on radar or from the bridge when it got close. Not like a 332 yacht is a container ship.

With that being said all these hypothetical situations don’t help anyone
 
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winningman

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MYOUNG
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All you Sea Lawyers should educate yourself by reading the The International
Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea 1972. Read Rule 6 on Safe Speed.
You can google it.

Deep Water Sailor
6. Safe speed
Every vessel shall at all times proceed at a safe speed so that she can take proper and effective action to avoid collision and be stopped within a distance appropriate to the prevailing circumstances and conditions.

In determining a safe speed the following factors shall be among those taken into account:

(a) By all vessels:

  • (i) the state of visibility;
  • (ii) the traffic density including concentrations of fishing vessels or any other vessels;
  • (iii) the maneuvrability of the vessel with special reference to stopping distance and turning ability in the prevailing conditions;
  • (iv) at night the presence of background light such as from shore lights or from back scatter of her own lights;
  • (v) the state of wind, sea and current, and the proximity of navigational hazards;
  • (vi) the draught in relation to the available depth of water.
(b) Additionally, by vessels with operational radar:

  • (i) the characteristics, efficiency and limitations of the radar equipment;
  • (ii) any constraints imposed by the radar range scale in use;
  • (iii) the effect on radar detection of the sea state, weather and other sources of interference;
  • (iv) the possibility that small vessels, ice and other floating objects may not be detected by radar at an adequate range;
  • (v) the number, location and movement of vessels detected by radar;
  • (vi) the more exact assessment of the visibility that may be possible when radar is used to determine the range of vessels or other objects in the vicinity.
 
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MYNomad

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if the theory is that Attessa is aware of the Prowler the whole time until they are too close to pickup on the radar, then why not stop, slow down or alter course to completely
By the way, I'm not trying to throw dirt on your theory,
I welcome "dirt" so no problem there. The "why not stop completely" in that circumstance is that it would be, arguably, imprudent to change course or speed, but especially speed, in those circumstances. Oftentimes, in a port to port crossing, vessels will turn to port, after the crossing, to resume their originally intended course. If Attessa were to stop unexpectedly, it would increase the risk of the other vessel hitting it. A 'stand On" vessel is obligated to stand on unless necessary to change course or speed to avoid a collision.
 

MYNomad

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This is why this thread got so fucked up. 500 different opinions. The only thing we should be thinking about is the 2 fishermen that died and there families and the injured. Everything else can just run its course. Prayers sent to everyone involved. mrkrabs

Some of us want to use this as an opportunity to consider how things can go bacly wrong, and how one captain can protect his passengers and ship against the errors of another. If you have, and take seriously, the responsibility of safely running a boat at night off shore, I can't imagine why you wouldn't also want to think about this. But, easy enough for you to tune out.
 

MYNomad

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Rick, you should probably go write a novel, skip all the suppositions and maybes, and leave it to the Coast Guard.
Well, the point I was trying to make is that none of us have enough information to conclude who is or is not at fault. But we can all benefit from considering the possibilities and learning how things COULD have gone wrong, and how collisions can be prevented even when other boats mess up. Frankly, I worry about that alot when I am running my boat.
 

Paddyman1

A mossback is better than a hairy back
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It's time to put this unfortunate lesson behind us. We can all hash out what might have happened and create unnecessary arguments between good people, but some sort of evidence will inevitably surface in due time.

In the meantime, it should be all about prayer and a road to recovery for the family's involved in losing their loved ones.

Moderator...the keys please?
 
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Paisan

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This is why this thread got so fucked up. 500 different opinions.
Why is the thread fucked up? If you don't like the discussion, tune out.

The only thing we should be thinking about is the 2 fishermen that died and there families and the injured. Everything else can just run its course. Prayers sent to everyone involved. mrkrabs
Why should we be thinking only about the dead and their families? Neither obsessive thought nor prayers are going to change what has already happened, nor lessen anybody's grief. And that, of course, assumes people even believe in any particular brand of diety.

Considerate discussion on the other hand may well contribute to safer future boating for many, especially those interested in the conversation. While I agree some of the aggressive shaming that's been thrown about isn't much help, lots of the discussion has been.[/QUOTE]
 

Ctony.clark

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As the son of a US Navy Jag officer who successfully defended a two star Admiral in a collusion during break away after re supply at sea, I can say this.....
Few can Fathom how much this will affect the Sportfishing fleet, and even more underestimated is THE RATE OF THE CHANGE. There are several “tells” that can’t be erased. Umbrella policies will be tapped, by more than the boat operators.
Pray for all affected, as the repercussions won’t be minimal.
Godspeed
 
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