What constitutes the following (re: New White Shark Regs)

Pecci

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Anglers should note the new rules regarding take of white sharks go into effect on January 1, 2023. These rules, found in California Fish and Game Code, section 5517, prohibit the use of shark bait, shark lures, or shark chum to attract a white shark. Anglers also may not place those items into the water within one nautical mile of any shoreline, pier, or jetty, when a white shark is visible or known to be present.

-What is shark bait, shark lures & shark chum, as compared to any other bait, lures or chum?

-I'm assuming the angler needs to actually see a GWS, but otherwise, how does he know a shark is present?

-Does this rule out any type of bait for anglers after 7-Gill, Soupfin, Thresher or Mako?

Thank you!
 
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cksea

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I think fishing a live or seal or sea lion would be considered shark bait. Anything else I can think you would have a good argument for targeting a fish. Classic example of the people writing the laws not worrying about enforcement or interpretation.
 
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GClev

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Next time they discuss stripping away more fishing and hunting opportunity, GO!! Get on the mailing list and attend some of the stakeholder meetings in Sacramento. The drive from here sucks. I used to leave at 3:30 am and drive like shit up the 5 to make the 9-10 am meetings. I'd stop for a burger on the way home and get back around 7 pm. But I'm getting too old and too retired for this crap.

The group that attends the various meetings varies, but I can categorize them quickly. The activists are led by one or two organizers who have graduate degrees and connections to animal rights fanatics and sympathetic politicians. They come prepared with biased facts, a tilted agenda, and a half dozen members of their fan club. They know how to speak. The sportsmen are a disorganized bunch, a few groups, a lot of singles, who come unprepared, without scientific facts or connections, and lack basic debate skills. They usually want nothing to change and present some argument like,"This is the way it was and it should stay that way." The meeting will be led by a career employee with experience at listening to both sides and will usually manage to keep the two sides from killing each other, in the building. The policy writers working for F&G are young kids, two or three years out of some 4-year state college where they were schooled by left-wing professors with their own agendas. I know that's a general description but it's not too far off base regardless of the game.

Be prepared with alternatives and some smart policy suggestions when it's being written, not after it's codified.

As an example of a successful campaign to tilt a policy change toward sportsmen, when a well-heeled animal rights activist went after unregulated coyote hunting about 10 years ago, F&G had an unchecked box they wanted to fill. There was no bag limit listed. There was no season. The coyote huggers demanded a change because all hunting requires a license and is regulated. Fair enough. Hunters wanted "no changes. It's always been this way. Nuff said." You get it. Idiot shit. So when it came to a season, some smart fellow asked for July 1 to June 30, the whole year, the same as the license year. And since they had to have a limit listed in the book, someone else who overheard the conversation during the break, asked for "No Limit" to be written into the code. So F&G got to check the box. Coyote hunting had a proposed season and bag limit. Coyotes were regulated and still "nothing changed."

I'd have to think about what rules I'd have wanted for the GWS. "No hook or trolled bait over 5 lbs" would have been a reasonable suggestion. The chum rule sucks, since every boat with live bait bleeds scales and bait stink. And bloody decks draw sharks. Every experienced fisherman knows that. Some rule about hanging half a tuna over the side might have been an alternative. However, the kids who are writing policy are not fishermen or hunters, they're children. "The Gentle Art of Communicating with Kids" by Suzette Elgin would be a good guide since from experience I can say talking like an adult doesn't work with either the sportsmen or the policy writers.

If you're going to play the game, read "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky. Both Barack and Hillary wrote their graduate theses on community organizing. It's an eye-opener, the rule book on winning at politics. If you know the rules, you can shove them right back down the eco-weenies throats.

The activists always send some woman who is 5 foot nothing to present their case. The sportsman usually have a bunch of bearded men 6' 3" and 280 pounds present theirs. Right out of the gate it's a bunch of big men bullying a little girl. This stuff is hard to win.
 
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Pecci

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Next time they discuss stripping away more fishing and hunting opportunity, GO!! Get on the mailing list and attend some of the stakeholder meetings in Sacramento. The drive from here sucks. I used to leave at 3:30 am and drive like shit up the 5 to make the 9-10 am meetings. I'd stop for a burger on the way home and get back around 7 pm. But I'm getting too old and too retired for this crap.

The group that attends the various meetings varies, but I can categorize them quickly. The activists are led by one or two organizers who have graduate degrees and connections to animal rights fanatics and sympathetic politicians. They come prepared with biased facts, a tilted agenda, and a half dozen members of their fan club. They know how to speak. The sportsmen are a disorganized bunch, a few groups, a lot of singles, who come unprepared, without scientific facts or connections, and lack basic debate skills. They usually want nothing to change and present some argument like,"This is the way it was and it should stay that way." The meeting will be led by a career employee with experience at listening to both sides and will usually manage to keep the two sides from killing each other, in the building. The policy writers working for F&G are young kids, two or three years out of some 4-year state college where they were schooled by left-wing professors with their own agendas. I know that's a general description but it's not too far off base regardless of the game.

Be prepared with alternatives and some smart policy suggestions when it's being written, not after it's codified.

As an example of a successful campaign to tilt a policy change toward sportsmen, when a well-heeled animal rights activist went after unregulated coyote hunting about 10 years ago, F&G had an unchecked box they wanted to fill. There was no bag limit listed. There was no season. The coyote huggers demanded a change because all hunting requires a license and is regulated. Fair enough. Hunters wanted "no changes. It's always been this way. Nuff said." You get it. Idiot shit. So when it came to a season, some smart fellow asked for July 1 to June 30, the whole year, the same as the license year. And since they had to have a limit listed in the book, someone else who overheard the conversation during the break, asked for "No Limit" to be written into the code. So F&G got to check the box. Coyote hunting had a proposed season and bag limit. Coyotes were regulated and still "nothing changed."

I'd have to think about what rules I'd have wanted for the GWS. "No hook or trolled bait over 5 lbs" would have been a reasonable suggestion. The chum rule sucks, since every boat with live bait bleeds scales and bait stink. And bloody decks draw sharks. Every experienced fisherman knows that. Some rule about hanging half a tuna over the side might have been an alternative. However, the kids who are writing policy are not fishermen or hunters, they're children. "The Gentle Art of Communicating with Kids" by Suzette Elgin would be a good guide since from experience I can say talking like an adult doesn't work with either the sportsmen or the policy writers.

If you're going to play the game, read "Rules for Radicals" by Saul Alinsky. Both Barack and Hillary wrote their graduate theses on community organizing. It's an eye-opener, the rule book on winning at politics. If you know the rules, you can shove them right back down the eco-weenies throats.

The activists always send some woman who is 5 foot nothing to present their case. The sportsman usually have a bunch of bearded men 6' 3" and 280 pounds present theirs. Right out of the gate it's a bunch of big men bullying a little girl. This stuff is hard to win.
 
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Pecci

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Thanks for replying!
Seems to me before too long, we'll be totally denied the outdoors and at the same time the CDFW will be steadily regulated out of a couple of thousand jobs, while the $230,000,000 (million) in revenue will be made up with additional taxes.

I was just getting back into Rock-fishing after several decades when I heard about the new restrictions coming on 1/1/23.

I have a lot of physical disabilities and in no way will I be able to reel in a few lbs. of lead ... err, likely tungsten soon, much less a fish on the end, w/o asking for a heart attack. With my luck, I would hook up with a 14' Sleeper Shark!

I realize dropping my bait down the distance of 7 miles or whatever it is, will require an electric reel & battery pack hanging off my shoulder. I'll have to sell my boat to afford all these costs, incl. fuel to reach these spots. --- Of course, sighting an "unfair" advantage, ironically, electric reels will then likely be banned as a result.

20 or so yrs. ago, I read where a CA politician stated that CA's long-term goal was to get ''everyone'' off the CA coast. Feinstein, maybe? I can't remember. --- Anyway, this latest reg will end the 1/2 & 3/4 day boats. Then w/in a short time they are banning gas-powered boats, which will end all sports party fishing trips whale watching boats, tour boats, etc. Everyone will be given a paddle on the "Catalina Flier!" --- Within a couple of yrs. they have said their attention will then turn to personal/private gas-powered watercraft. I try to picture myself on a float tube or kayak. Every time I do so, these thoughts are in "animation."

I wonder how cruise ships will be affected, or how the ships with our imported goods will dome to dock. Imagine them crossing the high seas with an electric motor (if possible), and if so the cost of manufacturing it, charging it, placing "charging barges" strategically placed across our oceans ...

It's all our fault, as a state & nation. We get what you vote for and we re-elect the same folks again and again! We have no one to blame but ourselves.

We're up a creek, without a paddle!
 
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GClev

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Thank you for the reply!

I just want to add that the enforcement arm, the game wardens, typically ARE experienced sportsmen and often times don't like or agree with the laws they are sworn to uphold. Confronted with a borderline situation, the game wardens will only write a citation for something that is specifically against one of the provisions of the code. I really like a lot of these guys. They have a tough job and don't get paid enough for it.

It's our jobs as citizens to get involved at the outset and stop wrong-headed or badly worded laws at the initial point, before they're ever put to paper, and way before they're written into law. You would really be surprised at the effect a few smart sportsmen can have if they stay informed, attend the stakeholder meetings, and provide smart alternatives to the anti-access/hunt/fish activists from the beginning. Fish and Game is actually on OUR side if we just give them a little help.

The resignations of Sonke Mastrup and Jim Kellogg set the stage for the transition of the F&G Commission into an Environmental Commission. Governors Brown and Newsome would ban hunting, fishing, camping, and off-road activities if they were allowed by a complacent public.
 

sickcat

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    Thank you for the reply!

    I just want to add that the enforcement arm, the game wardens, typically ARE experienced sportsmen and often times don't like or agree with the laws they are sworn to uphold. Confronted with a borderline situation, the game wardens will only write a citation for something that is specifically against one of the provisions of the code. I really like a lot of these guys. They have a tough job and don't get paid enough for it.

    It's our jobs as citizens to get involved at the outset and stop wrong-headed or badly worded laws at the initial point, before they're ever put to paper, and way before they're written into law. You would really be surprised at the effect a few smart sportsmen can have if they stay informed, attend the stakeholder meetings, and provide smart alternatives to the anti-access/hunt/fish activists from the beginning. Fish and Game is actually on OUR side if we just give them a little help.

    The resignations of Sonke Mastrup and Jim Kellogg set the stage for the transition of the F&G Commission into an Environmental Commission. Governors Brown and Newsome would ban hunting, fishing, camping, and off-road activities if they were allowed by a complacent public.

    I'm glad to see that you support the boots on the ground work the wardens are tasked with. Tough job done by generally good people who care about the resource and understand the importance of access to it.

    A good example of getting involved with good info to back it up was done by a few people like Mediak who met with the CARB people when the timeline for transition to tier 4 diesels was being worked on. Actually brought some common sense to the process instead of running around yelling the sky is falling with no well laid out alternative.
     
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    reelbadlarry

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    This stuff is decided long before any groups or meetings are held, well public ones that is. This state is lost and it's just a matter of time, they have a plan and a timetable...it's based on public pushback....they float stuff, then wait till the public doesn't care enough to do anything about it, then they enforce it... Look at Carb..... the F&G is just like Carb now.... more insane stuff will come out in the near future, they have no fear of the electorate....we suck and have proved it.
     
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    hucklongfin

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    Don’t forget that, in the not too distant future, your motor will have to be electric! Personally fishing for sharks is like fishing for carp… zero interest. Uh, that includes marlin referred to as carp!
    Thanks for replying!
    Seems to me before too long, we'll be totally denied the outdoors and at the same time the CDFW will be steadily regulated out of a couple of thousand jobs, while the $230,000,000 (million) in revenue will be made up with additional taxes.

    I was just getting back into Rock-fishing after several decades when I heard about the new restrictions coming on 1/1/23.

    I have a lot of physical disabilities and in no way will I be able to reel in a few lbs. of lead ... err, likely tungsten soon, much less a fish on the end, w/o asking for a heart attack. With my luck, I would hook up with a 14' Sleeper Shark!

    I realize dropping my bait down the distance of 7 miles or whatever it is, will require an electric reel & battery pack hanging off my shoulder. I'll have to sell my boat to afford all these costs, incl. fuel to reach these spots. --- Of course, sighting an "unfair" advantage, ironically, electric reels will then likely be banned as a result.

    20 or so yrs. ago, I read where a CA politician stated that CA's long-term goal was to get ''everyone'' off the CA coast. Feinstein, maybe? I can't remember. --- Anyway, this latest reg will end the 1/2 & 3/4 day boats. Then w/in a short time they are banning gas-powered boats, which will end all sports party fishing trips whale watching boats, tour boats, etc. Everyone will be given a paddle on the "Catalina Flier!" --- Within a couple of yrs. they have said their attention will then turn to personal/private gas-powered watercraft. I try to picture myself on a float tube or kayak. Every time I do so, these thoughts are in "animation."

    I wonder how cruise ships will be affected, or how the ships with our imported goods will dome to dock. Imagine them crossing the high seas with an electric motor (if possible), and if so the cost of manufacturing it, charging it, placing "charging barges" strategically placed across our oceans ...

    It's all our fault, as a state & nation. We get what you vote for and we re-elect the same folks again and again! We have no one to blame but ourselves.

    We're up a creek, without a paddle!
    Don’t forget that, in the not too distant future, your motor will have to be electric! Personally fishing for sharks is like fishing for carp… zero interest. Uh, that includes striped marlin referred to as carp!
     

    GClev

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    So… Can anyone clarify they actual ask without a political rant? Us shark hunters are interested in staying legal.

    Edits: typos
    Try again. Gobbledygook.

    If you have a real question and need a real answer call on the phone:

    Sacramento CA 94244 (916) 653-4094. David Bess - Chief of Enforcement. Nathaniel Arnold - Deputy Chief of Enforcement. Administrative Operations.

    One of these guys will give you a clear answer without a political rant.
     
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