Transducer interference help

skidynastar33

Newbie
Aug 7, 2009
72
18
Maltby
Name
Kyle
Boat
2007 20’ Thunder Jet Luxor OB OS
The set up is a Raymarine axiom pro 9 with a TM275LHW and a rv100 installed.
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I am only concerned about the TM275LHW. Above is how it is installed. I get pretty solid picture until I turn on the kicker and start trolling. It’s not interfering from the other transducer. I tried unplugging that.
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0B98D7EC-C39F-40D6-8074-269844550DC9.jpeg


You can see in some pictures the moment I turn on the kicker.
Any ideas?
 

skidynastar33

Newbie
Aug 7, 2009
72
18
Maltby
Name
Kyle
Boat
2007 20’ Thunder Jet Luxor OB OS
Is it an electrical interference from the kicker or maybe a vibration? Here is a pic of the bracket the kicker sits on. It’s bolted on. Not welded.
A2A1C9CE-E910-455A-97AD-095A328A9818.jpeg
 

Reel Hooker

“Ice Melter”
Sep 9, 2013
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Benjamin
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Parker 2320 Long Cabin 'REEL HOOKER'
Move Duder to the other side away from kicker. Installation location is most important, away from thru hulls and motor turbulence is step one In choosing proper location. Should solve problem, and I’d lower it slightly too
 

skidynastar33

Newbie
Aug 7, 2009
72
18
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Name
Kyle
Boat
2007 20’ Thunder Jet Luxor OB OS
Move Duder to the other side away from kicker. Installation location is most important, away from thru hulls and motor turbulence is step one In choosing proper location. Should solve problem, and I’d lower it slightly too

That was my original plan but when I went to install there wasn’t enough room with the swim step.
B5005B80-F0E2-42CC-84FA-8DDE493DC730.jpeg
 

wdlfbio

Once you go Cat, you never go back
Sep 15, 2008
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laurence
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2021 Allied WildCat 30
does the interference start when you turn the kicker on, or when you put it into gear? Turning the kicker on doesn’t cause turbulence, whereas putting it into gear could.
 
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bobberdoggin

‘Butt Kraken
Mar 23, 2015
53
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Thomas
Boat
22’ SeaSport Sportsman ‘Butt Kraken
I had a similar issue in the past with a kicker. Ferrite clips were able to stop the interference. Ideally moving the transducer or kicker, or try routing the cables away from each other. If that isn’t possible, these can help reduce the interference.

Clip-on Noise Filter,VSKEY [10pcs 3mm] Anti-interference High-Frequency Ferrite Core Choke Clip for Telephones,Tvs,Speakers,Radio,Audio Equipment Noise Suppressor (3mm Inner Diameter) Amazon product
 

sgwill122

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Feb 21, 2011
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Stephen
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'Lady Karen' 28 Duckworth Offshore
does the interference start when you turn the kicker on, or when you put it into gear? Turning the kicker on doesn’t cause turbulence, whereas putting it into gear could.

This is the question you should answer first, does the interference happen with the kicker running but not in gear(throttle the kicker up while out of gear to get voltage up). If it only happens when the kicker is in gear your only solution is to move the Transducer or kicker to the other side.

I see noise on the same transducer on my boat when I go over 7knts. Mine is turbulence from a raw water pickup forward the transducer. I just moved mine over and deeper.
 
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Da Mad Anglah

Old fut who still misses home on da islands
Oct 21, 2020
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Idaho (and sometimes Honolulu)
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Chris
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'93 18' Weldcraft "Rod Rage"
And to add to sgwill's post (and others), if it is only creating interference while in gear, and changes as you speed up, you could isolate the plate from the boat to give it a buffer with a rubber pad. Google rubber isolator pad outboard and you'll find a ton of options to isolate the vibration.
Alternatively, you might be able to also isolate the 'ducer too.
Chris
 

KimH

Someday I'll live the dream.
Mar 4, 2009
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Tacoma/Westport WA/USA
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Kim
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28' Farallon Walkaround "Paragon"
Looks electrical to me but I could be wrong about that.
Is that an electrical steering unit on the kicker? Does it turn on when you start the motor? If so is there a way to turn it off and leave the kicker running just to see if the noise goes away?

As mentioned the ferrites might help. I've talked to electronic techs about noise that I was having. The most common comment I've heard is to run the power back to the battery direct instead of your breaker panel. They kind of go, right or wrong...ehhhhh on the ferrites. Plus don't run your sounder wires alongside all the other power wires. Also make sure all your connections are tight.
 
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Walker Inc.

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Jun 24, 2013
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That’s electrical. Move your sounder cable out of the bundle of wires that is feeding your kicker. Ferrites might help. 50/50 shot. Try that first
 

skidynastar33

Newbie
Aug 7, 2009
72
18
Maltby
Name
Kyle
Boat
2007 20’ Thunder Jet Luxor OB OS
It starts when I turn the kicker on. I know that forsure. I would have to test again if it gets worse when in gear or not.

I have a couple ferrites on the cable. It didn’t help. But not sure if different ones would matter. I will find a link to ones I used. Would adding ferrites to the kicker power do anything?

As far as where I ran the cable, most of the way it’s runs totally seperate. It does run a little bit next to where my battery switch is.

Comes in below power to kicker 6”
C14DEEAE-62DC-4DE0-82D4-DCFA3BC015B1.jpeg

Runs by kicker cable/ power cables in back for maybe 18”
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Then seperate and on opposite side of boat of all wiring all the way to helm.
 

skidynastar33

Newbie
Aug 7, 2009
72
18
Maltby
Name
Kyle
Boat
2007 20’ Thunder Jet Luxor OB OS
As far as the wireless steering. I tried with it off and it didn’t seem to make different. I don’t know if I tried with it unwired.

More pics of the stern. Ducer comes in to the right of all this and stays over on that side seperate of all wires. Passes by in the previous pictures maybe like 18”. The seperate to the helm the whole way
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kwik_wurk

Member
Apr 10, 2012
259
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Indianola & Browns Point
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kwik_wurk
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Montauk, Sailfish 2360, and Johnson18
That’s very likely RF or EF noise. The good news is it’s repeatable, so it’s just a matter of troubleshooting isolating the problem.

How is the Axiom grounded? Does the power supplied to the axiom have a ferrite?

From your explanation the transducer wiring/cable is separated and has ferrites. Yes. And it seems the wiring path is good.

Definitely isolate the steering and kicker (in/out of gear) and retest. (As-in electrically disconnected.)

And when you do so trace the the power and grounding wires for each (and the axiom).

Grounding loop or something on the positive side is causing issues.
 

rysemus

Newbie
Dec 5, 2009
30
2
snohomish wa
Name
rick
Boat
22', seasport
Question for those that know. Where should you install Ferrite clips? I'd like to add some to clean up my electronic as I can't get enough separation between my power and transducer cables.
 

skidynastar33

Newbie
Aug 7, 2009
72
18
Maltby
Name
Kyle
Boat
2007 20’ Thunder Jet Luxor OB OS
RF or EF noise? What does that mean?

Can you elaborate more on grounding? All the negatives go to a negative bar under the helm. There is no separate grounding that I know of. In the axiom manual there is spot for a ground but they recommend not using it unless directed.

I will do some more testing. Pretty sure the axiom power has a ferrite. Also I put 2 on the transducer cable. One near the transducer and the cable extension connection and one near the axiom
 

skidynastar33

Newbie
Aug 7, 2009
72
18
Maltby
Name
Kyle
Boat
2007 20’ Thunder Jet Luxor OB OS
You guys have been so awesome helping me learn so much about wiring the boat and working on this stuff. So glad I decided to do it myself and learn all this.

Thank you!
 

kwik_wurk

Member
Apr 10, 2012
259
191
Indianola & Browns Point
Name
kwik_wurk
Boat
Montauk, Sailfish 2360, and Johnson18
Skidynastar33

To answer your question. So there are all kinds of sources (causes) for electrical noise in analog signals. Below is an excerpt from a National Instruments (NI) app note. They make a ton of research grade analogue measuring systems. This a summary paragraph, the rest gets heavy fast.

“...there are four principal noise "pick up" or coupling mechanisms—conductive, capacitive, inductive, and radiative. Conductive coupling results from sharing currents from different circuits in a common impedance. Capacitive coupling results from time-varying electric fields in the vicinity of the signal path. Inductive or magnetically coupled noise results from time-varying magnetic fields in the area enclosed by the signal circuit. If the electromagnetic field source is far from the signal circuit, the electric and magnetic field coupling are considered combined electromagnetic or radiative coupling.

The grounding can cause loops and that can introduce noise. The Axiom housing ground, is not needed most of the time; unless there is a noise issue...

But first do some field testing disconnecting a few things and see what you have. Also, do you have a stereo or VHF on the boat, do either show any signs of interference? (Cheaper stereo’s often succumb to noise.)

(Oh yeah one more thing, i have that exact transducer; going to a Garmin.)
 
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skidynastar33

Newbie
Aug 7, 2009
72
18
Maltby
Name
Kyle
Boat
2007 20’ Thunder Jet Luxor OB OS
Have not got it on the water yet to do more testing but found something interesting that seems like it’s a sign of something. I just don’t know what.

I was cleaning up connections and this is the power connector from the trolling motor where it attached to my battery switch.
8D8E68CB-23D6-49FE-BF0E-1947BF4431BF.jpeg


Totally corroded off on that one side. Any idea what could be causing it or something I should look for? I cleaned the connection and put back with some protective spray. Seems to be a clue to me
 

ShadowX

I Should Upgrade My Account
Oct 10, 2010
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Los Angeles
Name
Alex
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None
The set up is a Raymarine axiom pro 9 with a TM275LHW and a rv100 installed.
View attachment 1259615View attachment 1259616

I am only concerned about the TM275LHW. Above is how it is installed. I get pretty solid picture until I turn on the kicker and start trolling. It’s not interfering from the other transducer. I tried unplugging that.
View attachment 1259617View attachment 1259618View attachment 1259619
View attachment 1259620

You can see in some pictures the moment I turn on the kicker.
Any ideas?

Your wire harness may be too close to the electrical cables on the kicker motor. The wires on the transducer may be picking up noise from the other cable due to inductance. This often happens when there is a spark plug and the electrical noise from the spark plug when it fires is coupled back into the electrical cables. Since your transducer wires are next to it, it would couple through induction.

I bet you probably ran your transducer cables right next to those troll motor power wires on your boat, probably in same bundle and zip tied together. If you can separate them apart so they are not lying next to each other, that would help reduce the noise coupling.

Another thing to try is to add these RF ferrite choke to the wires on your transducer cables. They basically block any high frequency noise on the wires. Put them close to the fish finder. If your wire is small, you can coil it around the ferrite a few times to improve the filtering. You can also add multiple ferrite chokes. You can find them easily on Amazon by searching for "rf ferrite choke". You see these on USB adapters especially for power. It cuts down the noise that goes into electronics and can make a difference.

Edit: I just saw that others gave same suggestion so ignore this you already tried it. You definitely need to to wind around and around the ferrite choke as much as possible or even add more and make sure its closest to the fish finder. Since you mentioned the frequency goes up with the troll motor RPM, its definitely from the spark plugs. Another thing to try is to put the choke as close to the motor as possible on the power leads that come out of it. You're basically reducing the noise right at the source which is better than reducing the noise at the radio end. Add it to the positive and negative leads of the kicker motor. You still want the choke at the transducer cable near your radio since that is additional filtering.


1616974889345.png


FERRITE_CHOKE.GIF
 
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ShadowX

I Should Upgrade My Account
Oct 10, 2010
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Los Angeles
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Alex
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Have not got it on the water yet to do more testing but found something interesting that seems like it’s a sign of something. I just don’t know what.

I was cleaning up connections and this is the power connector from the trolling motor where it attached to my battery switch.
View attachment 1267592

Totally corroded off on that one side. Any idea what could be causing it or something I should look for? I cleaned the connection and put back with some protective spray. Seems to be a clue to me

You probably got a little salt water on top of your battery. There is just a small amount of current to eat away at your battery terminal through electrolysis. I bet the part that got eaten away is the closest to the positive battery terminal and is eaten away first. You need to spray on a protectant spray on your electrical terminals to protect the terminals and make sure you have a battery box to prevent moisture from condensing on the battery.