Torque 25nb or trinidad16na

halibutt1

Newbie
Feb 12, 2013
10
3
california
Name
j
Boat
hennesy
Can't decide in which star drag to buy.the penn torque 25nb wich is on sale or the trinidad16na.will be used for jigging.thinking of puttung4.8.1 gears in torque.Any opinions and personal experience with the reels mentioned above would help.
 

mberggre

I've posted enough I should edit this section
May 13, 2012
786
354
San Diego, California
Name
Matt
Boat
N/A
The low gears are awesome, I love them for jigging and surface iron. It's also the best freespooling reel on the market.

I'd probably consider Shimano if they made different gear ratios available but they don't.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Fumbducker

mberggre

I've posted enough I should edit this section
May 13, 2012
786
354
San Diego, California
Name
Matt
Boat
N/A
The okuma star drags are also worth a look. I passed on them because there was a mix up on whether or not their gears were brass or stainless steel. They're all stainless, they need to clean up their Internet advertisements.

My decision boiled down to slower gear ratios are better for 50lb+ fish. I'm young and in shape, I can get away gishing a star drag for bigger fish than most other guys.
 

johndtuttle

Angler/Client
Mar 20, 2008
5,569
1,735
Carmel, CA
Name
john
Boat
not crazy enough yet
I have both. Shimano has smoother drags and the overall build quality is better...
You wouldn't say that if you looked inside and knew what you were looking at...:)

Shimano makes a beautifully finished product designed to fool you that it is tough. It is not.

A Shimano is admirably beautiful in the hand and smooth when new due to brass gears. It will not hold up like the pure stainless gears of the Torque.

It's a case of smooth when new that then gets rough, versus a little less smooth when new that holds up far better.
 
Last edited:

buddaisis

KLABAUTERMANN
Oct 30, 2010
1,030
74
Colorado/ San Bernardino CA
Name
john
Boat
yours will be just fine!
I have both. Shimano has smoother drags and the overall build quality is better...
Overall quality is better than the TRQ? I don't think so. Obviously you don't "service" your reels. When you get a chance, open up both reels and compare it side by side. Hands down the TRQ is better built.
I too HAD both, guess which ONE I have now?
 

hawkplayer32

I'd rather be fishing.
Aug 6, 2012
3,662
1,657
Valencia, CA
Name
Tony Hicks
Boat
Baja Bound
Overall quality is better than the TRQ? I don't think so. Obviously you don't "service" your reels. When you get a chance, open up both reels and compare it side by side. Hands down the TRQ is better built.
I too HAD both, guess which ONE I have now?
Trini is smoother and feels better in my hands. If I want a brutish jigging reel I'll just use my JX Raptor...
 
  • Like
Reactions: fishjunkie1

buddaisis

KLABAUTERMANN
Oct 30, 2010
1,030
74
Colorado/ San Bernardino CA
Name
john
Boat
yours will be just fine!
hawkplayer32,
halibutt1 is comparing STAR DRAG reels. If you wanna talk about your "brutish" jx Raptor, start your own thread.
apologies halibutt1...
 

johndtuttle

Angler/Client
Mar 20, 2008
5,569
1,735
Carmel, CA
Name
john
Boat
not crazy enough yet
Trini is smoother and feels better in my hands. If I want a brutish jigging reel I'll just use my JX Raptor...
Hi Tony,

To be honest I always worry about posts like mine starting a pissing contest but that is not my intent. Really, the idea is to produce discussion.

Shimano are the world masters at producing a reel that is smooth and feels nice in your hands. I have like, 8 Shimanos some of which you have never heard of.

But a reel that is built to be "smooth" is not the same at all as a reel built to last and categorically is not indicative of "quality" if we consider the principal characteristic of quality to be durability and reliability. But Shimano has correctly judged "smoothness" and appearance are the qualities that sell reels when in a store.

The frame and side plates of a Torque are milled from solid aluminum stock, in the Trinidad they are cast parts (*edit they are stamped/pressed) that then are "machined" really, simply tapped for screws. The good news is this allows you to mold a part that feels perfect in your hand...the bad news is that the molded parts are much more brittle.

The "set plate" in a Trini that the internal parts are mounted on was previously plastic (*edit* current is aluminum), in a Torque that part is anodized Aluminum.

The gears in a Trini are Brass versus solid stainless steel in the Torque.

Trinidads are so smooth because of tight tolerances (good) with soft parts that mesh with no noise or felt vibration (good) but that do not remotely have the wear characteristics of more expensive and stronger stainless steel (brass = far softer gear material) nor have as strong a frame and side plates (bad).

They have admirably designed a product perfectly intended to convince you that it is high quality when new, but one they assume you will throw away when the next model comes out. Shimano have become the masters of Planned Obsolescence in the fishing world and while I would never hesitate to fish a Shimano when new I know that I will be selling the reel before it gets rough and parts are no longer available. Shimano discontinues parts support 5 years after a new model comes out. For the most expensive reels made that simply is not good enough.

No one in the past had this as a central concept to high end gear design and Brands made tools that were made to endure. We are talking about reels that function as new that are 40 years old...Shimano is trashing this tradition and trying to tell us they are selling quality...

I have no problem with this in lesser reels (ie $2-300) but something about this concept really rubs me the wrong way with $500-$1000 reels. Making something like that "disposable" is wrong and Shimano is developing significant animus against their concept among those that are aware. It is totally reasonable to engineer a "budget" reel to the minimum required to do the job for a time with no promises much beyond that...but not reels touted to be the best. At least have parts available.

Shimano built their reputation on the Trinidad and Stella with their smooth and admirable performance and people looked the other way when they needed parts replaced while they were available....and now (other than rare Trini 40Ns) people that know are very wary of buying a used Trinidad or Stella knowing that there is no parts support going forward.

The "Highest Quality" reels are not those you are afraid to use because you are afraid you can't fix them because parts are running out. That's what it comes down to with my thousands invested in Stellas and Ocea Jiggers. They are becoming display case queens.

Lastly, to characterize the current Torque as "brutish" leads me to question that you have ever held one in your hands or used one. The only difference in the hand is a tiny bit of felt gear noise from those much tougher and harder gears. They are every bit the equal of a Trini in every other regard and simply made better in the long run. That still matters to me.



best
 
Last edited:

hawkplayer32

I'd rather be fishing.
Aug 6, 2012
3,662
1,657
Valencia, CA
Name
Tony Hicks
Boat
Baja Bound
Hi Tony,

To be honest I always worry about posts like mine starting a pissing contest but that is not my intent. Really, the idea is to produce discussion.

Shimano are the world masters at producing a reel that is smooth and feels nice in your hands. I have like, 8 Shimanos some of which you have never heard of.

But a reel that is built to be "smooth" is not the same at all as a reel built to last and categorically is not indicative of "quality" if we consider the principal characteristic of quality to be durability and reliability. But Shimano has correctly judged "smoothness" and appearance are the qualities that sell reels when in a store.

The frame and side plates of a Torque are milled from solid aluminum stock, in the Trinidad they are cast parts that then are "machined" really, simply tapped for screws. The good news is this allows you to mold a part that feels perfect in your hand...the bad news is that the molded parts are much more brittle.

The "set plate" in a Trini that the internal parts are mounted on is plastic, in a Torque that part is anodized Aluminum.

The gears in a Trini are Brass versus solid stainless steel in the Torque.

Trinidads are so smooth because of tight tolerances (good) with soft parts that mesh with no noise or felt vibration (good) but that do not remotely have the wear characteristics of more expensive and stronger stainless steel (brass = second rate gear material) nor have as strong a frame and side plates (bad).

They have admirably designed a product perfectly intended to convince you that it is high quality when new, but one they assume you will throw away when the next model comes out. Shimano have become the masters of Planned Obsolescence in the fishing world and while I would never hesitate to fish a Shimano when new I know that I will be selling the reel before it gets rough and parts are no longer available. Shimano discontinues parts support 5 years after a new model comes out. For the most expensive reels made that simply is not good enough.

No one in the past had this as a central concept to high end gear design and Brands made tools that were made to endure. We are talking about reels that function as new that are 40 years old...Shimano is trashing this tradition and trying to tell us they are selling quality...

I have no problem with this is lesser reels (ie $2-300) but something about this concept really rubs me the wrong way with $500-$1000 reels. Making something like that "disposable" is wrong and Shimano is developing significant animus against their concept among those that are aware.

Shimano built their reputation on the Trinidad and Stella with their smooth and admirable performance and people looked the other way when they needed parts replaced while they were available....and now (other than rare Trini 40Ns) people that know are very wary of buying a used Trinidad or Stella knowing that there is no parts support going forward.

The "Highest Quality" reels are not those you are afraid to use because you are afraid you can't fix them because parts are running out. That's what it comes down to with my thousands invested in Stellas and Ocea Jiggers. They are becoming display case queens.

Lastly, to characterize the current Torque as "brutish" leads me to question that you have ever held one in your hands or used one. The only difference in the hand is a tiny bit of felt gear noise from those much tougher and harder gears. They are every bit the equal of a Trini in every other regard and simply made better in the long run. That still matters to me.



best
I totally understand your reasoning. The simple matter is I prefer the trini. The torque is also a great reel, it's just not my first choice.
 

fishfish

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jun 21, 2006
2,665
749
54
Santee
Name
Gerry
Boat
Sold and Gone!!!
I have owned both in question.....the Torque may "appear" a little less refined/ergonomic externally but I give the nod to the Penn Torque line as they will likely outlast the Trinis because they just seem built to last in/out. Also you cant beat the gearing options on the Penn Torques i.e. versa-gear options.
 

mberggre

I've posted enough I should edit this section
May 13, 2012
786
354
San Diego, California
Name
Matt
Boat
N/A
Hi Tony,

To be honest I always worry about posts like mine starting a pissing contest but that is not my intent. Really, the idea is to produce discussion.

Shimano are the world masters at producing a reel that is smooth and feels nice in your hands. I have like, 8 Shimanos some of which you have never heard of.

But a reel that is built to be "smooth" is not the same at all as a reel built to last and categorically is not indicative of "quality" if we consider the principal characteristic of quality to be durability and reliability. But Shimano has correctly judged "smoothness" and appearance are the qualities that sell reels when in a store.

The frame and side plates of a Torque are milled from solid aluminum stock, in the Trinidad they are cast parts that then are "machined" really, simply tapped for screws. The good news is this allows you to mold a part that feels perfect in your hand...the bad news is that the molded parts are much more brittle.

The "set plate" in a Trini that the internal parts are mounted on is plastic, in a Torque that part is anodized Aluminum.

The gears in a Trini are Brass versus solid stainless steel in the Torque.

Trinidads are so smooth because of tight tolerances (good) with soft parts that mesh with no noise or felt vibration (good) but that do not remotely have the wear characteristics of more expensive and stronger stainless steel (brass = second rate gear material) nor have as strong a frame and side plates (bad).

They have admirably designed a product perfectly intended to convince you that it is high quality when new, but one they assume you will throw away when the next model comes out. Shimano have become the masters of Planned Obsolescence in the fishing world and while I would never hesitate to fish a Shimano when new I know that I will be selling the reel before it gets rough and parts are no longer available. Shimano discontinues parts support 5 years after a new model comes out. For the most expensive reels made that simply is not good enough.

No one in the past had this as a central concept to high end gear design and Brands made tools that were made to endure. We are talking about reels that function as new that are 40 years old...Shimano is trashing this tradition and trying to tell us they are selling quality...

I have no problem with this in lesser reels (ie $2-300) but something about this concept really rubs me the wrong way with $500-$1000 reels. Making something like that "disposable" is wrong and Shimano is developing significant animus against their concept among those that are aware. It is totally reasonable to engineer a "budget" reel to the minimum required to do the job for a time with no promises much beyond that...but not reels touted to be the best.

Shimano built their reputation on the Trinidad and Stella with their smooth and admirable performance and people looked the other way when they needed parts replaced while they were available....and now (other than rare Trini 40Ns) people that know are very wary of buying a used Trinidad or Stella knowing that there is no parts support going forward.

The "Highest Quality" reels are not those you are afraid to use because you are afraid you can't fix them because parts are running out. That's what it comes down to with my thousands invested in Stellas and Ocea Jiggers. They are becoming display case queens.

Lastly, to characterize the current Torque as "brutish" leads me to question that you have ever held one in your hands or used one. The only difference in the hand is a tiny bit of felt gear noise from those much tougher and harder gears. They are every bit the equal of a Trini in every other regard and simply made better in the long run. That still matters to me.



best

Wait, wait, wait. The Trinidad's gears are still brass?
 

tunanorth

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Dec 4, 2005
5,853
3,720
By the lake
Name
Tunanorth
Boat
Bass Tracker 16
Wait, wait, wait. The Trinidad's gears are still brass?

Correct [main gear], as JT mentions, there is indeed a difference in "smoothness" between brass main and stainless steel main gears. almost all conventional reels [even inexpensive ones] do have a stainless pinion gear. After some use [or lapping], the stainless gears will smooth out to a degree.
 

mberggre

I've posted enough I should edit this section
May 13, 2012
786
354
San Diego, California
Name
Matt
Boat
N/A
Correct [main gear], as JT mentions, there is indeed a difference in "smoothness" between brass main and stainless steel main gears. almost all conventional reels [even inexpensive ones] do have a stainless pinion gear. After some use [or lapping], the stainless gears will smooth out to a degree.
Wow, that's unbelievable. A $500 reel with brass gears. I'm glad that I didn't mistakenly buy a Trinidad A when I was starting to get back into saltwater fishing. That explains why Shimano always uses really technical, non-nonsensical terms to describe their gears like HEG.

Thanks, Penn for making quality reels with Stainless Steel parts.
 

halibutt1

Newbie
Feb 12, 2013
10
3
california
Name
j
Boat
hennesy
Thanks guys for all the info and personal opinions. I will be getting the Penn because i like my reels built tough and want them to last.I also like that there built in the USA and will be building up a whole fishing arsenal with peen torque star, lever drags,and one USA 113n.
 

steelfish

Baja Boy..
Oct 16, 2008
762
311
Calexico, Ca / BAJA,Mexico
Name
Alex
Boat
dos por favor
I totally understand your reasoning. The simple matter is I prefer the trini. The torque is also a great reel, it's just not my first choice.
I totally undertand you, the way I see the reels of $200 mark and up its like when you buying a cars (or expensive sound systems, Alpine, pionner, focal, Morel, etc), you will ended up buying what you like even tough the other brand have better motor, but I like one with the best handling on curves also I dont want the best motor out there, I want a shiny car for the weekends, or maybe I want a all-terrain SUV which is not the best on handling or faster but It will serve a lot of purposes as long as its reliable I can take it, Jeep renegades are build to last decades but I dont like the body, the weight, the cargo capacity, etc and I will only using it 15 times per year while I can use 5x more a Nissan xtrail.

Talicas looks awesome outside and inside, but for some reason I will never get one even used at a good price, not because its Shimano it just simply that I dont like it.

I have a trini 16, a Baja Special, 113h, fathom 40, lexa 300, etc, etc. a nice mix of brands and sizes, every reel has its purpose and its reason to be bought or maybe Im just a tackle ho.
 
  • Like
Reactions: johndtuttle

Bantam1

Shimano Rep
Sep 13, 2007
2,128
729
Irvine, CA
Name
Dan
Boat
N/A
Hi Tony,

To be honest I always worry about posts like mine starting a pissing contest but that is not my intent. Really, the idea is to produce discussion.

Shimano are the world masters at producing a reel that is smooth and feels nice in your hands. I have like, 8 Shimanos some of which you have never heard of.

But a reel that is built to be "smooth" is not the same at all as a reel built to last and categorically is not indicative of "quality" if we consider the principal characteristic of quality to be durability and reliability. But Shimano has correctly judged "smoothness" and appearance are the qualities that sell reels when in a store.

The frame and side plates of a Torque are milled from solid aluminum stock, in the Trinidad they are cast parts that then are "machined" really, simply tapped for screws. The good news is this allows you to mold a part that feels perfect in your hand...the bad news is that the molded parts are much more brittle.

The "set plate" in a Trini that the internal parts are mounted on is plastic, in a Torque that part is anodized Aluminum.

The gears in a Trini are Brass versus solid stainless steel in the Torque.

Trinidads are so smooth because of tight tolerances (good) with soft parts that mesh with no noise or felt vibration (good) but that do not remotely have the wear characteristics of more expensive and stronger stainless steel (brass = second rate gear material) nor have as strong a frame and side plates (bad).

They have admirably designed a product perfectly intended to convince you that it is high quality when new, but one they assume you will throw away when the next model comes out. Shimano have become the masters of Planned Obsolescence in the fishing world and while I would never hesitate to fish a Shimano when new I know that I will be selling the reel before it gets rough and parts are no longer available. Shimano discontinues parts support 5 years after a new model comes out. For the most expensive reels made that simply is not good enough.

No one in the past had this as a central concept to high end gear design and Brands made tools that were made to endure. We are talking about reels that function as new that are 40 years old...Shimano is trashing this tradition and trying to tell us they are selling quality...

I have no problem with this in lesser reels (ie $2-300) but something about this concept really rubs me the wrong way with $500-$1000 reels. Making something like that "disposable" is wrong and Shimano is developing significant animus against their concept among those that are aware. It is totally reasonable to engineer a "budget" reel to the minimum required to do the job for a time with no promises much beyond that...but not reels touted to be the best.

Shimano built their reputation on the Trinidad and Stella with their smooth and admirable performance and people looked the other way when they needed parts replaced while they were available....and now (other than rare Trini 40Ns) people that know are very wary of buying a used Trinidad or Stella knowing that there is no parts support going forward.

The "Highest Quality" reels are not those you are afraid to use because you are afraid you can't fix them because parts are running out. That's what it comes down to with my thousands invested in Stellas and Ocea Jiggers. They are becoming display case queens.
Normally I don't jump into threads like this but I need to point out some inaccurate statements above.

First the Trinidad A frames and side plates are forgings that are machined. They are not castings or "molded" parts.

The set plate is made of aluminum, not plastic. You cannot have a rigid platform for our gearing without using aluminum as the base to support everything else.

Brass vs. Stainless gears... Yes stainless typically is a harder material. Durability can be argued because there are different types of stainless and there are different types of brass alloys. The tighter the tolerances, and the better the support for the parts result in increased durability. This is why the pinion gear is supported by bearings on both sides in the Trinidad A. Then we have an accurately machined frame, side plate and set plate to ensure proper alignment of all the parts and to maintain proper gear mesh. I could go further discussing gear design, shape and contact patterns which also change how durable the gear set can be, but it isn't needed here.

The parts situation will be changing in the near future. I have been involved in several discussions planning out a change to parts for discontinued reels like the Trinidad and Stella models. We will also be extended parts availability beyond "5 years". We never carried parts for the Jiggers. Those are Japanese models that we never supported here in the US. We have expanded our network to obtain parts from overseas offices for models like the Stella. Thankfully the Stella was a global model reel. Places like Europe and Australia still have some parts that we are able to obtain.
 

johndtuttle

Angler/Client
Mar 20, 2008
5,569
1,735
Carmel, CA
Name
john
Boat
not crazy enough yet
Normally I don't jump into threads like this but I need to point out some inaccurate statements above.

First the Trinidad A frames and side plates are forgings that are machined. They are not castings or "molded" parts.

The set plate is made of aluminum, not plastic. You cannot have a rigid platform for our gearing without using aluminum as the base to support everything else.

Brass vs. Stainless gears... Yes stainless typically is a harder material. Durability can be argued because there are different types of stainless and there are different types of brass alloys. The tighter the tolerances, and the better the support for the parts result in increased durability. This is why the pinion gear is supported by bearings on both sides in the Trinidad A. Then we have an accurately machined frame, side plate and set plate to ensure proper alignment of all the parts and to maintain proper gear mesh. I could go further discussing gear design, shape and contact patterns which also change how durable the gear set can be, but it isn't needed here.

The parts situation will be changing in the near future. I have been involved in several discussions planning out a change to parts for discontinued reels like the Trinidad and Stella models. We will also be extended parts availability beyond "5 years". We never carried parts for the Jiggers. Those are Japanese models that we never supported here in the US. We have expanded our network to obtain parts from overseas offices for models like the Stella. Thankfully the Stella was a global model reel. Places like Europe and Australia still have some parts that we are able to obtain.

Thank you for that Dan, those clarifications and changes to parts availability going forward are most welcome! :D
 

spongehead

"ONE FISH AT A TIME"
Sep 12, 2010
659
710
garden grove, ca
Name
David
Boat
Maria
Dont know about you guys but i got a beat up boat rashed, little corossion on the spool gold trini 20 for more than 10 years and only thing i did besides yearly service, last week was upgrade the drags, same internals, and works like the day i bought it. Well drags are much stronger now....
 
  • Like
Reactions: Tackleho619

fishjunkie1

Well-Known "Member"
Jan 22, 2012
89
15
California
Name
Fishjunkie1
Boat
Any
Wow, that's unbelievable. A $500 reel with brass gears. I'm glad that I didn't mistakenly buy a Trinidad A when I was starting to get back into saltwater fishing. That explains why Shimano always uses really technical, non-nonsensical terms to describe their gears like HEG.

Thanks, Penn for making quality reels with Stainless Steel parts.
Don't believe everything you read . Lol Just because someone spouts out information that doesn't mean it's true. Trinidads have been out there along time and still being fished. What does that tell you.
 

Excaliber

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Oct 12, 2006
592
52
Meridian, ID.
Name
Mike
Boat
sold
Don't believe everything you read . Lol Just because someone spouts out information that doesn't mean it's true. Trinidads have been out there along time and still being fished. What does that tell you.
It says pray you don't need parts for that reel because you might not be able to find them:cheers:
 
  • Like
Reactions: johndtuttle