Toro Tamer Spectra Thoughts?

bob1825

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  • Apr 11, 2007
    2,581
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    Name
    Jason
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    Anyone the fits my schedule
    I recently sold a few reels and had potential buyers ask if I had Toro Tamer spectra on the reels because they were going to "immediately" remove it and put on another brand like PowerPro or Izorline.

    Has anyone had experience with Toro Tamer spectra failing? I've got it on a couple of reels loaded with 65# and 80# Toro Tamer spectra and am now wondering if I should change it out, or if its just people like what they like and there is no issue with the Toro Tamer.

    Thank you.

    Jason
     
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    Derby

    My "Member" is Well Known.
    Sep 9, 2010
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    The Kid
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    Aquasport 222 FFV
    I dont think Charkbait would get away with selling bad braid. They are honest people and I tend to agree with alot of the things they say and do.

    I have not tested ToroTamer....but I trust CharkBait.
     
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    BloodyL

    Throwing everything I got
    Jan 4, 2009
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    got it on several reels spinning & conventional and no issues.
     
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    salty brain

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    Sep 25, 2012
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    Dave
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    I use it to make my 130lb and 100lb wind on, never had a problem and it just to easy to work with. Its a little bigger than other brands, but for windons its worked for me so far.
     
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    bob1825

    I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
  • Apr 11, 2007
    2,581
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    Name
    Jason
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    Anyone the fits my schedule
    Thanks guys, I appreciate the feedback. I found it curious too because I've never had issues with anything I've gotten from Charkbait. They have always been professional and helpful. Looks like its a case of people just like what they like.
     
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    SouthBayKiller

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    Mar 27, 2003
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    Robert
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    I have it on a couple reels. Its the older stuff, so I don't have much input on anything new they have. What I do have works well for me and no issues with it.
     
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    jerryl

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    Jul 17, 2011
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    West Hills, CA, USA
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    I filled up a couple of reels off a 50lb 1500yd spool, and it seems like the line has a twist in it. I had to get the twist out after every 10 cranks. Twists in the line get nasty in tangles later.
     
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    Chark

    Newbie
    Jun 27, 2007
    65
    196
    HB, CA
    Name
    Mark Smith
    Boat
    25 Luhrs - CharkBait
    Hi Jerry, there should not be twists in the line which would make inline rigging difficult if not impossible. We do have a 100% guarantee of the product, so replacing a spool would be the direction I'd go. There are limits in time for replacement of anything sold, but in the case of the Toro since that's also a company I own, we would support replacement of the spool if it was purchased from CharkBait, and I'd authorize another dealer to do so as well if you purchased our line from one of our other retailers. (One point, we don't make a 1500 yard spool). Feel free to contact me directly at CharkBait or at ToroTamer, email address are available through either website. If you purchased hollow core, it really needs to be replaced. If the line is a solid, twist should not be any issue, the product does not have any memory, twist in production would not create a problem in terms of knots or anything else. Could be something else going on. But, for hollow its a critical point - line twist is BAD and makes in-line rigging of leader into braid darn near impossible.

    I developed Toro's line for a few reasons. I wanted more control over the product itself. Until I came out with 16 strand, most of the hollow core on the market was a 12 strand product, Pricing was all over the place, different costs for different tests, product consistency varied widely. I experienced the ease of rigging with Blackwater's 16 strand a few years back and wanted to duplicate that feature, but bring the cost down to 12 strand levels, I was also seeking a comparative advantage in the marketplace, and I couldn't afford to be in a supply crunch - like many were this past summer when supply from most manufacturers dried up. Lastly, my wife and I wanted to begin developing another company with export potential. We're doing that with some success now, with some good partners in Europe, Latin America and Australia. My wife's from Crimea, we now have reason to travel to Europe for trade shows, dealer visits...with a bit of a tax break for travel to see her family. That also assisted a belated honeymoon trip to Hawaii last year where we hooked up with a couple clients and enjoyed some time seeing sights and, ah....product testing/evaluation (accountant thought that a fine idea as did the wife).

    A twist can occur in manufacture, IF the factory is not paying proper attention. I've seen one spool of 80 with that issue, and probably 4-5 in the 50# side, 1 in a 200# spool. No more than a 8 cases over the past five or so years of which I'm aware. Once replaced, I end up using the line on my own reels, will splice in some 40 or 50 and use it, or just do a knot connection. No problem with test strength, but that twist makes an in-line rig frustrating as can be. Factory now loads line differently, has done so for the past year, so that issue should not resurface. Line you received should be replaced. If you purchased from our shop just get hold of us and we can get things taken care of. If purchased through another dealer, get hold of me using the Toro email address and my wife or I can get the ball rolling. The line was made to be the easiest to use for inline rigging, that was my intent in creating the line, that's the intent.

    Tests and diameters are conservative, Toro's line is 100% PE, no fillers, no other material, no kevlar... If a line from any manufacturer does not state what it's made from, then there's a real reason not to trust it. In the case of diameters, we are quite competitive, however our 130# is fatter than some other firms - but then again we independently test out at over 180 on the 130#. Our 4 strand "solid" is fatter than our 8 strand even though we state the same diameters. And, fiber quality can vary between line tests produced. For instance our 40# hollow and 8 strand fibers are actually quite a bit more expensive than most of the higher tests. The benefit is a better line, as example you can load 130# mono into our 40 if you want to work at it. No one else comes close to that ability. It's important to be conservative, since for those using knots knot strength always will be less than the line alone performs. Further, snap breaks (which some guys tossing jigs/iron have discovered) can occur more easily with braid than mono - no forgiveness, minimal stretch. Best to be conservative. There will be those that like the product, have used it and know it's made well. There will also be those who have their own favorites and are not open to anything different from what they know. And, there will be those who will try to game you and talk down the price you are charging for the reel if they perceive some insecurity. Toro's a good honest product, that's the intent, the way we back it up speaks to that fact.

    Sincerely,
    Mark Smith
    Owner - CharkBait! & ToroTamer
     
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    jerryl

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    Jul 17, 2011
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    West Hills, CA, USA
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    Jerry
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    Mark, thanks for the reply. I bought the spool on Amazon. Seller is listed as toro tamer. I'll snap a picture of the empty spool when I get home. I was pretty careful to get most of the twist out of the line when spooling, and I eventually get more of the twist out with continued fishing.
     
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    jerryl

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    Jul 17, 2011
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    My mistake - it's 1000 yd spool of 50lb.

    Photo on 4-27-16 at 6.42 PM.jpg
     
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    Dudley613

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  • May 20, 2015
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    Inyotuckee CA
    Name
    Chris
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    21' Cole superhawk "Beep Beep", 20' bayrunner open
    Hi Jerry, there should not be twists in the line which would make inline rigging difficult if not impossible. We do have a 100% guarantee of the product, so replacing a spool would be the direction I'd go. There are limits in time for replacement of anything sold, but in the case of the Toro since that's also a company I own, we would support replacement of the spool if it was purchased from CharkBait, and I'd authorize another dealer to do so as well if you purchased our line from one of our other retailers. (One point, we don't make a 1500 yard spool). Feel free to contact me directly at CharkBait or at ToroTamer, email address are available through either website. If you purchased hollow core, it really needs to be replaced. If the line is a solid, twist should not be any issue, the product does not have any memory, twist in production would not create a problem in terms of knots or anything else. Could be something else going on. But, for hollow its a critical point - line twist is BAD and makes in-line rigging of leader into braid darn near impossible.

    I developed Toro's line for a few reasons. I wanted more control over the product itself. Until I came out with 16 strand, most of the hollow core on the market was a 12 strand product, Pricing was all over the place, different costs for different tests, product consistency varied widely. I experienced the ease of rigging with Blackwater's 16 strand a few years back and wanted to duplicate that feature, but bring the cost down to 12 strand levels, I was also seeking a comparative advantage in the marketplace, and I couldn't afford to be in a supply crunch - like many were this past summer when supply from most manufacturers dried up. Lastly, my wife and I wanted to begin developing another company with export potential. We're doing that with some success now, with some good partners in Europe, Latin America and Australia. My wife's from Crimea, we now have reason to travel to Europe for trade shows, dealer visits...with a bit of a tax break for travel to see her family. That also assisted a belated honeymoon trip to Hawaii last year where we hooked up with a couple clients and enjoyed some time seeing sights and, ah....product testing/evaluation (accountant thought that a fine idea as did the wife).

    A twist can occur in manufacture, IF the factory is not paying proper attention. I've seen one spool of 80 with that issue, and probably 4-5 in the 50# side, 1 in a 200# spool. No more than a 8 cases over the past five or so years of which I'm aware. Once replaced, I end up using the line on my own reels, will splice in some 40 or 50 and use it, or just do a knot connection. No problem with test strength, but that twist makes an in-line rig frustrating as can be. Factory now loads line differently, has done so for the past year, so that issue should not resurface. Line you received should be replaced. If you purchased from our shop just get hold of us and we can get things taken care of. If purchased through another dealer, get hold of me using the Toro email address and my wife or I can get the ball rolling. The line was made to be the easiest to use for inline rigging, that was my intent in creating the line, that's the intent.

    Tests and diameters are conservative, Toro's line is 100% PE, no fillers, no other material, no kevlar... If a line from any manufacturer does not state what it's made from, then there's a real reason not to trust it. In the case of diameters, we are quite competitive, however our 130# is fatter than some other firms - but then again we independently test out at over 180 on the 130#. Our 4 strand "solid" is fatter than our 8 strand even though we state the same diameters. And, fiber quality can vary between line tests produced. For instance our 40# hollow and 8 strand fibers are actually quite a bit more expensive than most of the higher tests. The benefit is a better line, as example you can load 130# mono into our 40 if you want to work at it. No one else comes close to that ability. It's important to be conservative, since for those using knots knot strength always will be less than the line alone performs. Further, snap breaks (which some guys tossing jigs/iron have discovered) can occur more easily with braid than mono - no forgiveness, minimal stretch. Best to be conservative. There will be those that like the product, have used it and know it's made well. There will also be those who have their own favorites and are not open to anything different from what they know. And, there will be those who will try to game you and talk down the price you are charging for the reel if they perceive some insecurity. Toro's a good honest product, that's the intent, the way we back it up speaks to that fact.

    Sincerely,
    Mark Smith
    Owner - CharkBait! & ToroTamer
    Sooo how's that for customer service?!? I love charkbait
     
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    Chark

    Newbie
    Jun 27, 2007
    65
    196
    HB, CA
    Name
    Mark Smith
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    25 Luhrs - CharkBait
    Well, I did sell to Amazon for a year, maybe two and then stopped. While it's convenient, it's still far better to be working with a physical store, even from an online standpoint. Better customer service possible, an actual human to discuss and help educate regarding a product. And, they really were a pain in the keester to deal with from a vender's perspective. Through CharkBait, we do not sell to third party sites like eBay or Amazon, for those reasons. I thought by selling to Amazon directly with Toro I'd gain some advertising through them and assist in getting the name out. That was a benefit, but long term also a negative in my estimation based on how I wanted the product positioned. Some marketing issues for us by selling to Amazon, and in truth I now view manufacturer and retailer sales through them as a negative to the fishing industry. We need retail shops and the services they provide. That can't be matched by a purely online portal. Were Amazon to gain traction in fishing tackle retailing, it could spell the end to many independent retailers - that's not a good thing for fishermen in my estimation. That concern grows as hourly wages advance (thanks Gov.Brown) to levels that make it more difficult to staff a shop with entry level employees - who need time and training in order to be proficient with product and service to earn their worth to a business. Amazon will put more pressure on smaller shops, and make it even harder for them to survive. The expertise provided by independent tackle retailers is important, not something we want to see go away. Between operations like that, with limited customer service who detract from local retailer sales and a narrow product range for what we do as anglers, and high hourly costs for labor and physical space, there are some challenges ahead for tackle shops, and for fishermen too looking for some of the key products we depend upon which really can't be sold through an operation that's not capable of really explaining and demonstrating a product. That's ultimately why I stopped doing business with them, the volume was wonderful, but ultimately destructive to the industry in my estimation. Better to forego the sales long term.

    But, back to the twist, if it's not working I'm happy to replace with the proper product.
     
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    jerryl

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    Jul 17, 2011
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    West Hills, CA, USA
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    Jerry
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    Hi Mark, thank you so much for your generous offer to replace the product. I've used up the whole spool, and pretty much have gotten most of the twist out of the line through careful spooling (spinning the spool periodically during spooling) and more of it during fishing. The line has performed excellent with insertions, and I love the strength and smoothness. Line definitely gets bit. Thanks, Jerry
     
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    lasparky11

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    Mar 7, 2008
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    Gene
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    X-wife she's so fat she floats
    I spooled 2 of my 40# reels up last year before a 10 day. Caught a lot of fish with those reels. Used 50# hollow due to the small diameter. Really happy with the it. Tie easy no problems at all.
     
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    Billy V

    Seabass Commando
    Aug 26, 2007
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    Parker 2310 DV / Kayak
    I've been using Toro Tamer line for several years now. I have seen the entire evolution since Mark started producing the line.

    The TT line as is presently stocked in the shop is as good, or better in most cases then any brand on the market. The 16 strand hollow packs tightly and splices very easy. I've used it all without a single problem.

    Good stuff - I literally have miles of this line on my reels.
     
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    Normslanding

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    Oct 13, 2010
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    It's in there with the other good products. The 20 & 30 - 16w hollow is great nothing else like it on the market. Toro splices and makes wind-on's better than most. Nice product Mark.
     
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    tanner.s

    Fish Slaughterer
    Oct 18, 2012
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    1997 Proline 23 W/A
    I have a bunch of reels with 50 and 65lb solid (4 strand?). Love the line and the fact that it is a bit more coarse than PP for sawing through kelp.

    Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
     
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    Outhouse

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    Feb 13, 2007
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    I tried it once, but the diameter was much lager than other lines I used. Otherwise, I found the line to be limp and splice well.
     
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    DC61

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    Dec 28, 2011
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    Paul L.
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    I was apprehensive to switch from JB, but I did. I have absolutely no issues with it. Competition in the marketplace is good for all of us. I have used the 100 and 130. I will be ordering a spool of 65# hollow to top off my reels. I found the hollow easy to work with.
     
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    Rodless_Jim

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    Apr 3, 2008
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    Strictly a Rider
    My experience with Toro Tamer has been limited. A few years ago (not long after the line first came out), I was on my way back to Mexico City in a few hours, and I wanted to bring some hollow home with me to make top shots before my next trip. I stopped into Charkbait and bought some TT hollow specifically for that purpose, and it was fine for that. Actually, it was the tiniest bit loose...or at least looser than I am used to. I like a tight grip of the spectra on the mono or fluoro. I can't say if I am right about this or not, but I believe that a tighter natural grip of the spectra on the fluoro makes for a significantly better "finger trap." That's why I generally insert 130lb fluoro into 130lb hollow (I like Seaguar Threadlock for this), rather than into 200, etc... But the Toro Tamer was fine, and yes, easy to work with. Just that (my own, perhaps irrational bias) it was maybe too easy to work with...too loose for my comfort. I think most people would really like it a lot in this role.

    By the way, Toro Tamer is not alone in this. Cortland braid, which is just plain fantastic stuff, is also too loose for my comfort. I don't use it for top shots because it just feels too loose to me. If I were going to make double-walled, pressure-served top shots, I would choose Cortland...and maybe Toro Tamer would be in the running for that too.

    I also decided that, for my purposes, it was much too thick to use as a spool filler, rather than just for splicing top shots. At that time, I calculated that I would lose 80+ yards of capacity if I spooled up with Toro Tamer. That was the only legitimate knock I have ever heard about the line, too. The flip side is that the line is way stronger than its stated test. Maybe 180lbs ABS for the 130lb hollow? Or maybe at that time it was 212lbs? Something like that...total overkill. I'm happy if my 130lb hollow spectra tests out at 150 or 160, as long as it does not cost me capacity. Heck, I have no complaint if it tests out at 300lbs! But I still want to get 700+ yards of it on my Makaira 20 II SEa, so line diameter makes a difference. It was for that reason I decided then not to use Toro Tamer, and I have not since.

    I don't know if the newer versions of Toro Tamer have solved this problem...I don't even know if Toro Tamer has been upgraded. I have found that I very much prefer TUF-Line Guides Choice and Seaguar Threadlock, both for making top shots and for spooling my reels. I've never had reason to look back.
     
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    Reverendpdp

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    Jun 10, 2016
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    People's Republic of South Florida
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    D Penton
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    Not Yet
    Ok I'm resurrecting this older thread because I'm just now learning the advantages of hollow core. I bought a 300yd spool / 40# TT from Charkbait, along with the Sato Crimping Kit. Come to discover the 300 yd will not fill up my Avet MXL. I could probably add another 100/150 yds. At this point I do NOT want to add 100 yd topshot and am opting to add the 100 yards as backing. I have a spare 150 yd. spool of 50# Suffix solid braid.

    Here are my questions and concerns. When inserting the 50# solid into the 40# hollow, do I need to use the crimp? I'm seeing a lot of straight splices with no knots or crimps. Mind you, the tutorials I've watched are splicing Hollow to Hollow, and not Hollow to Solid as I'm trying to do. Is the 50# solid too narrow in diameter for a good hold inside the 40# hollow? Would I be better off just buying another small spool of Hollow core to join both lines? Help?
     
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