Tooth Proof

Dexter Outdoors

Steve K

Hey, I'm gettin' bit...
Jan 2, 2005
11,576
7,450
Bishop
Name
Steve
Boat
18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
So, following the advice of JohnTFT, I’m gonna spend a few dollars on getting set up to use solid SS wire to rig up my DTX Minnow. Got a brand new 220 that I’ll be using on the 10 day this year. Video of John using the L.T. Marine tool is available on YouTube, see if I can find a link. Heavy wire, like up to 360 lb can be used easily with this tool. I’m curious if a SS thimble is recommended as well. I’ll message John to ask him to weigh in here on this topic. He previously commented on my “Spectra” thread, but thought new post, new title would help us zero in on this rigging method. The whole idea for me is to use the strongest rig with the skinniest wire and minimize turbulence in the water causing the lure to hop out, twist up others in the spread.
 

Bill W

tunaholic
  • Jan 12, 2006
    5,660
    7,316
    67
    Chino Hills, Ca.
    Name
    Bill Walsh
    Boat
    Red Rooster
    Just a curiosity cause I have not seen it done. Wondered if you can use a small ss chafing spring on single strand?
     
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    canyonman

    Member
    Dec 2, 2005
    631
    433
    50
    brooklyn
    Name
    joe
    Boat
    Independence
    Have you seen one swim with wire. I personally havent, but will be following this thread hoping for your success. So far it seems they only seem to swim rigged with flouro or heavy mono. I've never lost one due to a bite off but I have quite a few that just dont swim anymore after a fish or two.
     

    RichG

    I Should Upgrade My Account
    Jan 20, 2007
    1,173
    1,345
    California
    Name
    Richard G/
    Boat
    none
    Just a curiosity cause I have not seen it done. Wondered if you can use a small ss chafing spring on single strand?
    Why not? Don’t know if it would make a difference.

    Steve, I have the tiny version of that tool. Had it for years. Works well but never tried it on the heavy wire.
     
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    Steve K

    Hey, I'm gettin' bit...
    Jan 2, 2005
    11,576
    7,450
    Bishop
    Name
    Steve
    Boat
    18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
    There’s a DuBro brand version of this type tool, but it’s good only up to 8 gauge wire, 86 lb. This L.T. Marine tool, (Skurge of the Sea) is good for 12-18 gauge wire, 174 lb to 325 lb. Diameters of the 240 lb and 325 lb are .89 and 1.04 mm. Seaguar Premier 100 lb and 130 lb are .91 and 1.05 mm, for comparison.

    My DTX 200 was rigged with single strand wire but I don’t know how heavy it was. I fished it on a 10 day, October/November 2019. I rigged up my trolling outfit and tied it on towards the end of the recent 16 day, caught a couple of fish on it before the wire broke at the swivel. Pretty much stayed in the water, didn’t get tangled up with the other trollers at all, and some of the Marauders were popping out of the water as we were trolling pretty darned fast.

    Looking forward to more input from John Nappo on this, wire size, thimble or spring...
     
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    dwaynesda

    dwayne
    Apr 27, 2003
    1,185
    726
    santee
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    Name
    dwayne
    Boat
    Cabo 216
    So, following the advice of JohnTFT, I’m gonna spend a few dollars on getting set up to use solid SS wire to rig up my DTX Minnow. Got a brand new 220 that I’ll be using on the 10 day this year. Video of John using the L.T. Marine tool is available on YouTube, see if I can find a link. Heavy wire, like up to 360 lb can be used easily with this tool. I’m curious if a SS thimble is recommended as well. I’ll message John to ask him to weigh in here on this topic. He previously commented on my “Spectra” thread, but thought new post, new title would help us zero in on this rigging method. The whole idea for me is to use the strongest rig with the skinniest wire and minimize turbulence in the water causing the lure to hop out, twist up others in the spread.
    We have been using the DTX 220 for a couple of years on our 10 day trip charter on the Vagabond. They are deadly and always seem to stop the boat. A couple of things we have learned. Buy more than one. They are fragile (bills and bodies break easy). The gold one is a killer with the purple one a close second. Multi- strand or solid did not make a difference. Replace those crappy hooks with Owner ST trebles. I forget the size but you do not lose any fish. Buy a good pair of split ring pliers like from PitBull. They are good.

    What did make the difference is where you trolled it on the stern. Only troll it when you are in the corner slot and troll it close, like 20-30 ft in the CLEAN water. Hang on to your rod and do not put it in the clips. You will see most of your fish eat it right off the corner. You do not need the buttoned down drag like you normally do with maurauders. Pretty epic. It usually does not take very long for you to stop the boat. If you try to troll them down the middle, they will hit a pocket of bubbles and pop out of the water jumping over 1 or 2 lines in the process. It is a real mess.

    Good luck!
     
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    TanstaaflSD

    Member
  • Dec 3, 2013
    556
    382
    San Diego, CA, USA
    Name
    Tanstaafl
    Boat
    n/a
    You wrote >> Owner ST trebles.
    This goes against tradition, as many other comments urge "No Trebles" and oly singles.
    Was the problem weak or un-sharp trebles or something else?
    The heavy trebles look pretty strong.
    What do you think?
    Thanks,
     
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    Steve K

    Hey, I'm gettin' bit...
    Jan 2, 2005
    11,576
    7,450
    Bishop
    Name
    Steve
    Boat
    18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
    We have been using the DTX 220 for a couple of years on our 10 day trip charter on the Vagabond. They are deadly and always seem to stop the boat. A couple of things we have learned. Buy more than one. They are fragile (bills and bodies break easy). The gold one is a killer with the purple one a close second. Multi- strand or solid did not make a difference. Replace those crappy hooks with Owner ST trebles. I forget the size but you do not lose any fish. Buy a good pair of split ring pliers like from PitBull. They are good.

    What did make the difference is where you trolled it on the stern. Only troll it when you are in the corner slot and troll it close, like 20-30 ft in the CLEAN water. Hang on to your rod and do not put it in the clips. You will see most of your fish eat it right off the corner. You do not need the buttoned down drag like you normally do with maurauders. Pretty epic. It usually does not take very long for you to stop the boat. If you try to troll them down the middle, they will hit a pocket of bubbles and pop out of the water jumping over 1 or 2 lines in the process. It is a real mess.

    Good luck!
    Funny, had the total opposite experience from what you describe. Marauders short on the corners and DTX long down the middle. Had tight drag as at troll speed, the pressure from the lure itself requires plenty of drag to keep it from pulling line off the reel. Maybe the Vagabond trolls at a slower speed than the boat I just fished. I did think we were going a good clip. But, only one steering wheel, on set of throttles. ;)
     
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    dwaynesda

    dwayne
    Apr 27, 2003
    1,185
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    santee
    Visit site
    Name
    dwayne
    Boat
    Cabo 216
    You wrote >> Owner ST trebles.
    This goes against tradition, as many other comments urge "No Trebles" and oly singles.
    Was the problem weak or un-sharp trebles or something else?
    The heavy trebles look pretty strong.
    What do you think?
    Thanks,
    The trebles were an experiment because the barbs on those hooks on the DTX are so small they are useless. We had the trebles with us and out of desperation, because we lost so many fish, we switched them out and have not lost a single fish since switching. The trebles are buried all over their faces and they are not getting loose. These DTX lures with the trebles are the deadliest combo I have used in all my years of wahoo fishing.
     
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    ZZZZZ

    I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
    Dec 11, 2003
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    Nomad is pro catch and release. I have huge respect for that. Stock hooks play both sides of the field, imo. And allot of regions those jigs fish are (great barrier reef) with allot of mixed fish

    Personally imo. When the jig gets bit LR. It's a wahoo or tuna 95% of the time. Destined for the rsw land what is hooked

    Personally in a location like that or like sensitive areas where I live. I will pinch the barb down. Or largemouth golf course hooks with live bait
     
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    ZZZZZ

    I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
    Dec 11, 2003
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    17 day trip. 2.5 days of wahoo fishing at HB with lots of troll fish. Boat total was 52 wahoo. I landed 12 on the owner treble casting Raiders

    1465760_48d02ae099cea5bcb0391c30ed9c4709.jpg
     
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    ZZZZZ

    I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
    Dec 11, 2003
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    Those trebles are also good for skip jig. Catch them looking

    IMG_20200717_134200.jpg


    IMG_20210510_192506.jpg
     
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    JohnTFT

    Insomniac
    Feb 11, 2007
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    The "718"
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    John
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    A big Steel One
    If you are looking to keep your lure from being lost - solid wire is not what I would chose to rig on.

    Solid wire is brittle by nature and as prior comments noted - it breaks at pinch points like swivels and hooks.

    If I were to rig a DTX on solid it would be no heavier than #12 174lb and no lighter than #11 140lb. Its way more flexible than #14 and 15.

    You could use a thimble for sure - but it will affect water flow to the bill and that is why the DTX swim wrong most of the time.

    The connection at the bill needs to be as small as possible. I dont see why the SS springs would not work on wire but not sure why its necessary.

    To make the haywire twist in the smaller wire you dont need the LT marine tool. The DUBRO 1096 works well on that wire.

    49 strand wire is a better choice. Its flexible, wont kink and you can crimp it with great success.

    We fish the DTX back east more for Tuna than Wahoo. Rigged on 150# Mono with the smallest crimp we feel comfortable with. SS springs we will cut in 1/2 sometimes as well.

    We catch some really big Wahoo rigged like this as well.

    I like the toughness of SS wire - dont like how easy it kinks and it will cost you a fish.

    49 strand is a great option if you dont like mono. Flexible and you can make some small connections at the bill with it.

    They fish best on Mono but you will lose a few this way.
     
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    ZZZZZ

    I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
    Dec 11, 2003
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    Decided after this fish beat my ass. To ring a owner treble hook with a possible choke out after this beating. And landing more wahoo

    IMG_20210501_220348.jpg
     
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    Steve K

    Hey, I'm gettin' bit...
    Jan 2, 2005
    11,576
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    Steve
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    18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
    Thanks for taking the time, John. Looks like it makes sense for me to get the 275 lb 49 strand and some crimps. The crew on the Independence had a couple of boat rods set up with DTX 220 lures, they were rigged with stranded wire and the lures mostly stayed in the water. I dropped one in on the corner to see how it would swim. Tracked perfectly.
    I also saw one of the crew members toss a dozen DTX 220’s in the trash, all broken.
     
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    ZZZZZ

    I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
    Dec 11, 2003
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    The learning curve for LR is naturally a very slow progress. Painfully slow

    The 3/4 day boat deckhand. With proper gear :D my money is on then
     
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    Steve K

    Hey, I'm gettin' bit...
    Jan 2, 2005
    11,576
    7,450
    Bishop
    Name
    Steve
    Boat
    18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
    I feel like a total rookie. Single Barrel or Double Barrel Sleeves for the 49 strand 275 lb wire?
     
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    JohnTFT

    Insomniac
    Feb 11, 2007
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    The "718"
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    John
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    A big Steel One
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    snordo

    Almost A Member
    Sep 21, 2005
    173
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    Torrance
    Name
    Gregg
    Boat
    Indy
    There’s a DuBro brand version of this type tool, but it’s good only up to 8 gauge wire, 86 lb. This L.T. Marine tool, (Skurge of the Sea) is good for 12-18 gauge wire, 174 lb to 325 lb. Diameters of the 240 lb and 325 lb are .89 and 1.04 mm. Seaguar Premier 100 lb and 130 lb are .91 and 1.05 mm, for comparison.

    My DTX 200 was rigged with single strand wire but I don’t know how heavy it was. I fished it on a 10 day, October/November 2019. I rigged up my trolling outfit and tied it on towards the end of the recent 16 day, caught a couple of fish on it before the wire broke at the swivel. Pretty much stayed in the water, didn’t get tangled up with the other trollers at all, and some of the Marauders were popping out of the water as we were trolling pretty darned fast.

    Looking forward to more input from John Nappo on this, wire size, thimble or spring...
    Steve,

    There are two Du-Bro tools for different thicknesses available at Melton Tackle.
    • #1095 - Small: For 3-8 gauge wire (.012 - .020 dia. wire) or 32- 86 pound test.
    • #1096 - Medium: For 9-13 gauge wire, .022 - .031 dia. wire, or 105-195 lb. test.
    How about Knot-2-Kinky instead of single-strand?
     
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    offshore6

    Where's the tuna?
    Aug 20, 2006
    508
    297
    Indialantic, Florida
    Name
    Eric
    Boat
    Boat Ho
    I have been using 18 inches of 170 lb. single strand wire, haywire twisted direct to the DTX and then with a ball bearing swivel at the other end. Doesn't matter - outside or center of the spread, 200 or 220 Nomad, my lures swim great and catch wahoo. No problems with the 170 lb wire kinking or bending at the connection points. There are certainly other ways to rig them but my way works for me and I don't plan to change. By the way, I don't use a tool to make the haywire twists.
     
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    mmayo

    Barking Spider
  • Jul 18, 2006
    703
    903
    Tehachapi, CA
    www.landofmayo.com
    Name
    Mark
    Boat
    Vagabond & Royal Star
    The trebles were an experiment because the barbs on those hooks on the DTX are so small they are useless. We had the trebles with us and out of desperation, because we lost so many fish, we switched them out and have not lost a single fish since switching. The trebles are buried all over their faces and they are not getting loose. These DTX lures with the trebles are the deadliest combo I have used in all my years of wahoo fishing.
    I have learned over a few 10 day trips on the Vagabond with Dwayne that he KNOWS WAHOO. He will be the very nice guy with the wahoo limit first, bet on it.
     
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    ZZZZZ

    I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
    Dec 11, 2003
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    Why make it hard to pin one of the hardest fishes to pin.

    Back in the day. A wahoo could spread a soft trebble or use the trebble as leverage to spread. Not now.

    Urban legend. Not true now

    I would prefer to pin a casting jig wahoo with a owner treble. Over a single siwash hook. Call me crazy stupid
     
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    Steve K

    Hey, I'm gettin' bit...
    Jan 2, 2005
    11,576
    7,450
    Bishop
    Name
    Steve
    Boat
    18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
    Tim Turis, long time regular on the Excel and a pretty savvy angler, fishes trebles on his Wahoo jigs.
     
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