Too Close

Nineball

That's a keeper!
Jul 16, 2012
785
704
Port orchard
Name
Chris
Boat
Parker 2310 "GUANO LOCO"
Headed to swiftsure Sunday morning. I finally got my radar working on my C80 and have been getting comfortable with it this year at neah.

Ran in the fog on Saturday and felt pretty safe. Following our tracks back out to swift on Sunday let my bro navigate, after all we had better both be able to use the electronics.

About 5 miles out from tatoosh in heavy fog he asks "what does precautionary zone mean?"

I knew we were south of the shipping lanes as I took a look at the screen the words were in yellow and approaching. As I gave it some thought I was on high alert. Looked up to see us trying to kiss a cruise ship. Made a sharp turn to port and put some distance between us. Glad I was wearing my brown shorts that day, or was I?

Anyways, I'm sure there is more to learn from the knowledge you guys always provide here amongst bruthas. I will admit that I was zoomed in on radar to 1/8 mile and I will be out much further after this.

I believe that I saw the "precautionary zone" on my screen from the AIS that my system got from the GPS. I do not have a VHF with AIS/MMSI but it is on my short list. I don't plan on an upgrade from my C80 any time soon so I'm hoping to get some input on how to better use the gear that I have.

I will try to not pass blame onto said cruise ship that I never heard a blast from until he realized we could hit him with a wiffle ball. After that I heard it every couple of minutes. Shouldn't these liners be able to see a rec boat inside of 500' or is their radar tuned for more distance?

I have no idea how I saw other small boats out there that morning with no radar but I sure did!

Oh yeah, as you can see we got beat up pretty bad out there!

IMG_0904.JPG
 

Woodhunter

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jun 12, 2011
800
484
Port Angeles, WA
Name
Big John
Boat
Classic MAKO 22
Small fiberglass sport boats do not have good radar reflection.

I carry a radar reflector in the boat at all times. If I am out near the shipping lanes I hang it as high as I can get it in the boat.

In fact, if you read the Canadian regs carefully, you will find a radar reflector is required equipment on sport boats. I find it interesting that a radar reflector is not required on our side of the border, especially out in the Straits. Been real foggy here in the past several days!

Several years ago I hung out with a commercial salmon troller. My eyes were glued to the radar screen when we were in fog. Amazing how many small boats were very difficult to see on the screen! A very small return blip.

And think about how high the radar antenna is on a big ship. They just might "look" over you if your boat is close.
 
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FVSerenity

Tuna Boss FV HappyHours
Feb 27, 2012
2,999
2,037
The Salt
Name
Rod
Boat
22' Duckworth FVSerenity, 2502 Trophy FVHappyHours
Agree that for small fiberglass boats radar does not work great. For that reason I run in fog with the radar in 1.5mile range and target expansion turned on, turn persistency to 15 seconds, black background with red targets, I can use radar overlay but I don’t because the screen is too cluttered when it matters. then have at least two set of eyes out front at all times with my hand on the throttle. At that range boats give big returns yet I have enough time to easily react. We ran in to WP Sunday a pure hour of fog all the way into the dock.

Glad everyone is ok:).

Can we have some effing sun please!!
 
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Nineball

That's a keeper!
Jul 16, 2012
785
704
Port orchard
Name
Chris
Boat
Parker 2310 "GUANO LOCO"
How fast were you zipping along in the heavy fog?
dependent upon visibility. There were sections of that run where the water was dead calm and we could see for a long ways out, 2-2500rpm during those times is about 12+knots. That is the fastest we made going out.

When this happened it was during a patch of increasing fog and swells. We were still planed out because if you still aren't planed the GPS/compass doesn't provide accurate position so down to <2000 rpm = 10+ knots

On Saturday while coming back in I was rather impressed at the cruise ship behind us in following seas. I commented on how fast that sucker went from way behind our stbd at 5+ miles to our port side in less than 1/2 hour. I guesstimated them at 20 knots or more and I believe that they are going that fast into the straights.
 

Walker Inc.

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jun 24, 2013
2,975
6,859
Gig Harbor, WA
Name
Patrick Walker
Boat
33 ft. Coldwater Walkaround
He honestly probably didn’t see you on radar. With the height of his antenna and your lack of size(target return) he might not have. Some ships have a secondary on the bow for close in stuff. Don’t know if that one did or didn’t.

The precautionary is in your chart at certain zoom levels. No signal from the ship put it there.

I run with my radar at 3/4mile on the bar, and zoom out to 3mi once I clear number 8. Zoom into 1.5 miles if I see traffic.

A VHF with AIS would have put him on your screen!
 

Chtucker

Lowe boat denter
Feb 15, 2012
3,440
2,331
Sunshine State, AKA NOT.. Kirkland, WA
Name
Howard
Boat
Double Trouble 28' Armstrong
I run split screen (chart/radar) AIS is overlayed on radar. Chart overlay sucks (for me) If I had a separate screen, my radar would do dual range.

Newer Garmin/Furuno color codes hazardous approaching targets turn red.
 
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Wild Bill

Not Blackmouthing
Aug 4, 2010
3,542
3,635
Camano Island
Name
Steve
Boat
Otter Craft
If you are serious about running amongst the big ships AIS is a very good safety tool. A VHF with ais receive tied to your chart plotter is all that you need to see them. Unfortunately I am not confident it will work with Raymarine C series. Pat do you know for sure if this is the case? May be a good reason for an upgrade Chris.
 
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Nineball

That's a keeper!
Jul 16, 2012
785
704
Port orchard
Name
Chris
Boat
Parker 2310 "GUANO LOCO"
If you are serious about running amongst the big ships AIS is a very good safety tool. A VHF with ais receive tied to your chart plotter is all that you need to see them. Unfortunately I am not confident it will work with Raymarine C series. Pat do you know for sure if this is the case? May be a good reason for an upgrade Chris.
Yes, I am crossing those boundaries I believe. Pat or Mike might set me straight.
Note: i am already seeing AIS or this could have ended poorly.
 

Ducky Duckworth

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Oct 29, 2013
695
656
Anacortes
Name
Curt
Boat
Duck, Duck, Goose
AIS is the bomb in the fog and rounding a cliff point with a tug towing a barge on the other side. It allows you to look like a pro when avoiding traffic.
 

Captain Decent

The Bert makes ‘em Squirt
Nov 2, 2017
1,738
2,525
38
Covington, wa
Name
Ryan
Boat
The Bert Makes ’em Squirt
I think most people (sport boats) are glued to the screen and not looking around when running in fog which I think can get people into trouble.

I don't have a great trust that radar will always pickup other boats so I glance at it frequently but make sure you have your head on a swivel and all eyes looking out.
 

Walker Inc.

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jun 24, 2013
2,975
6,859
Gig Harbor, WA
Name
Patrick Walker
Boat
33 ft. Coldwater Walkaround
Yes, I am crossing those boundaries I believe. Pat or Mike might set me straight.
Note: i am already seeing AIS or this could have ended poorly.
I think a c80 will see AIS over 083 NMEA. AN AIS enabled VHF is around 350$ on Amazon. Cheap insurance
 

Joelsk15

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Dec 9, 2011
233
164
Port Orchard WA
Name
Joel
Boat
The Thirsty
Are you saying you did not pick him up on radar? Or 1/8th mile put you too close?
 

KimH

Someday I'll live the dream.
Mar 4, 2009
2,615
2,375
Tacoma/Westport WA/USA
Name
Kim
Boat
28' Farallon Walkaround "Paragon"
The sport boats are hard to see as they get lost in the sea clutter. If the large deep sea vessels don't have a smaller close range radar on the bow there is a fair dead zone before the radar is striking anything in front of them. My present vessel that I run is 240' with the largest @ 340' which is small compared to deep sea vessels. In open sea I usually run one radar (x-band) on 6 miles, the big one (s-band) on 12 or 16 miles. When around other vessels we'll drop down to 3 & 8 miles. Then when it gets tight I'll drop down to 1 on the x-band but it gets tough to see boats with the sea clutter. If you tune the sea clutter out you start tuning the boats out so your fibre glass boat is getting tuned out. Since all larger vessels are required to have AIS having those targets displayed on your plotter from an AIS receiver is one of the better things you can do. Having one that transmits is even better.
 

Chtucker

Lowe boat denter
Feb 15, 2012
3,440
2,331
Sunshine State, AKA NOT.. Kirkland, WA
Name
Howard
Boat
Double Trouble 28' Armstrong
The sport boats are hard to see as they get lost in the sea clutter. If the large deep sea vessels don't have a smaller close range radar on the bow there is a fair dead zone before the radar is striking anything in front of them. My present vessel that I run is 240' with the largest @ 340' which is small compared to deep sea vessels. In open sea I usually run one radar (x-band) on 6 miles, the big one (s-band) on 12 or 16 miles. When around other vessels we'll drop down to 3 & 8 miles. Then when it gets tight I'll drop down to 1 on the x-band but it gets tough to see boats with the sea clutter. If you tune the sea clutter out you start tuning the boats out so your fibre glass boat is getting tuned out. Since all larger vessels are required to have AIS having those targets displayed on your plotter from an AIS receiver is one of the better things you can do. Having one that transmits is even better.
I will add that it is a COMPLETE myth that the big ships "filter" out Class B AIS or any AIS transmissions for that matter. If you are transmitting AIS, they will see you.
 

Odin7

Doug Fir
Apr 19, 2008
1,483
1,235
Beverly Hills
Name
Elizabeth Warning
Boat
Space Shuttle
Holy crap, Chris! That kinda stuff will tighten up the old sphincter muscle enough to pull the cap off a beer bottle! (A good way to keep people from drinking your beer.)

Gonna be another foggy one this weekend.
 
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Sockeye71

If it swims... we will hunt it down and club it!
Jul 5, 2011
962
657
Maple Valley
Name
Dave
Boat
Olympic 26' XLC "Sea Monkey"
I think most people (sport boats) are glued to the screen and not looking around when running in fog which I think can get people into trouble.

I don't have a great trust that radar will always pickup other boats so I glance at it frequently but make sure you have your head on a swivel and all eyes looking out.


I always assign crew to be watching each side of boat when running... and to call out anything with distance and position. (ie.... 10 o'clock 300 yards... etc etc)
 

Titan

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jun 12, 2008
1,920
830
Las Vegas, NV
Name
Kamen
Boat
Dinghy
1/8 is too much zoom.
AIS is good, just don't get complacent and assume that it will show you everything. Many Westport charter boats don't transmit AIS, for example.
 
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fishinden

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Nov 6, 2010
420
87
Mt. Vernon
Name
Dennis
Boat
Fishin Den
No excuse for both vessels not sounding fog signals as required by international and inland rules of the road in reduced visibility. "One prolonged blast every two minutes while making way". Especially the cruise ship, he has to know the rules, probably didn't want to disturb his passengers.
 

ledbed6b

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jun 21, 2010
1,791
1,850
Shoreline WA
Name
Eli
Boat
Parker 2320
Yes, I am crossing those boundaries I believe. Pat or Mike might set me straight.
Note: i am already seeing AIS or this could have ended poorly.
I'm confused you say you are getting AIS from your GPS but I'm pretty sure you either need a dedicated AIS receiver or a VHF with one. GPS alone doesn't contain AIS info as far as I know.

Also AIS displays the boat and potential collision areas like this on the E125 at least, is this what you were seeing?



A precautionary area is something else called out on charts in areas of concentrated traffic or other potential obstacles for larger vessels.

And not to be a jerk but you need to do some research and figure out how to use your gear before you act as captain. Also based on your comment that you cant even get accurate GPS below 10kts, I'd day a couple grand for some newer electronics is money well spent, especially when you are talking about scenarios that will put lives at risk for no reason other than cheapness.
 
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Nineball

That's a keeper!
Jul 16, 2012
785
704
Port orchard
Name
Chris
Boat
Parker 2310 "GUANO LOCO"
Are you saying you did not pick him up on radar? Or 1/8th mile put you too close?
I was viewing with an inner ring = 1/16 mile and an outer ring = 1/8 mile. As that message popped up that had me on high alert we were on plane. With me going 10+ knots and them coming at me at whatever speed they were at the routes intersected so darn fast I could have casted for coho into his bow wave.

I think my lessons learned are:
1) zoom out to around 2 miles on the display
2) look into the radar reflecters
3) get the AIS transmitting VHF

From my readings on this site it sounds like I should be looking at the standard horizon units and the digital antenna. I will give that emtrack a look as well.

Thanks for the info fellas!
 

Nineball

That's a keeper!
Jul 16, 2012
785
704
Port orchard
Name
Chris
Boat
Parker 2310 "GUANO LOCO"
Yes Eli I agree with what you are saying. Part of the reason for this thread is for some honest feedback about what my unit is capable of. This gear recently came off of a Parker so I have some faith it's not entirely shitty. But no, I don't see the level of detail that you have on your pic. I am also curious to about a possible software update.

If I don't get it dialed in this year I will entertain the idea of new gear over the winter months.

My comment about the GPS being squirly boils right down to straighter tracking when on plane. I'm sure it sees the accuracy of 15' as shown on the spec sheet.
 
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KimH

Someday I'll live the dream.
Mar 4, 2009
2,615
2,375
Tacoma/Westport WA/USA
Name
Kim
Boat
28' Farallon Walkaround "Paragon"
I was viewing with an inner ring = 1/16 mile and an outer ring = 1/8 mile. As that message popped up that had me on high alert we were on plane. With me going 10+ knots and them coming at me at whatever speed they were at the routes intersected so darn fast I could have casted for coho into his bow wave.

I think my lessons learned are:
1) zoom out to around 2 miles on the display
2) look into the radar reflecters
3) get the AIS transmitting VHF

From my readings on this site it sounds like I should be looking at the standard horizon units and the digital antenna. I will give that emtrack a look as well.

Thanks for the info fellas!
The "precautionary area" up there is the area where the Traffic Lanes merge. There are two set of lanes where the ships are entering or leaving from the main lanes in the Straits. The Precautionary Area is where it can get all mixed up.

Good idea on getting the radio with a AIS receiver built in. Works great. That cruise ship was probably already in the VTS system but that area is where the lanes start. One thing you can do is monitor "Traffic" which is on channel #74...I think. You can sort of get an idea of what and who is entering the area.

One thing I always suggest which I don't think a lot of people do is get a paper chart of the area where you'll be to use as review or preplanning. Much easier looking at one of those things versus scrolling on a small plotter screen.
 

FVSerenity

Tuna Boss FV HappyHours
Feb 27, 2012
2,999
2,037
The Salt
Name
Rod
Boat
22' Duckworth FVSerenity, 2502 Trophy FVHappyHours
Yes Eli I agree with what you are saying. Part of the reason for this thread is for some honest feedback about what my unit is capable of. This gear recently came off of a Parker so I have some faith it's not entirely shitty. But no, I don't see the level of detail that you have on your pic. I am also curious to about a possible software update.

If I don't get it dialed in this year I will entertain the idea of new gear over the winter months.

My comment about the GPS being squirly boils right down to straighter tracking when on plane. I'm sure it sees the accuracy of 15' as shown on the spec sheet.
GPS needs you to be moving before it can give you a heading, adding a heading sensor to your system will help with that.

The map that you see on the screen is driven by what map software you have loaded, you can use the map that came with your system or select a map software package that provides he detail you want.

The point being you don’t nessesarily need to trash the whole system and start over, I don’t know anything about your system though.

I start with the biggest screen I can fit/afford and go from there.
 
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