Tony Stewart guilty of murder??? What say you.

?? fisherman

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What a terrible thing that happened!! To think that this was intentional is just wrong. Like nearly everyone has been saying...... that incident happened way to sudden........ all within a dark corner and a guy in a dark suit, along with all the other valid points that have been made.

Way to much speculation here when thinking Tony tried to get close to him. No way..... not buying it.

Just a really bad spur of the moment decision by that young kid that cost him his life. Can't even imagine his family and close friends seeing those videos and thinking "If only he didn't get out and walk onto the track and traffic. So easily avoided, and could have still been here today.

The unknown fisherman:p:
 
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gecsr1

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I think the title of this thread is in very POOR taste...... and should be changed ......
Very poor action of the guy getting out of his car and running across the track.. and Tony Steward would not have hint him intentionally ....


An Accident that should have never happened..............

Very Sad day for both and all involved....
 
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sealskinner

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    I thought those cars were steered more w/the rear wheels than the front. Looks like drifting to me. His car wasn't on fire. Stay in your car. Live to race another day.
     
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    Blackfish

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    I think the title of this thread is in very POOR taste......and should be changed

    :rofl::Pogo_Stic


    How about this instead.

    Egotistical asshole, hot head gets gun over and killed by like minded peer.....Was it intentional, WHAT SAY YOU?
     
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    tommysdad

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    He never "jumped infront of the car" NEVER. go to 35 seconds, and play it over and over. You can see the directions of the front wheels, an how the car responds. It was intentional to cause the car to lunge at the other dude...maybe not hit him, but he was trying to scare him or at least knock him down. Stewart needs to find a good attorney.

    better vid with out the banner adds

    Not seeing it.

    None of the noises on the video can be definitively attributed to the 14 car. That video is picking up noises from all over the track.
    I don't really see what the wheels are doing in the second or two before impact -- the video followed the previous car. I see what they did right at the moment of impact -- which could easily have been affected by hitting the poor kid.

    I do not see how one can say this was intentional based upon this video.

    Did Stewart even know the guy was out of the car before he rounded the corner? No spotter on these tracks. . . .
     
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    mberggre

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    I don't think that he'll be convicted in the court of law for this since there will always be reasonable doubt but the video is pretty damning. He guns his engine and kicks out his back wheels towards the driver on the track. Sure the guy on the track is an idiot but all the NASCAR guys do this and I think that Stewart tried to buzz him.

    Someone worth millions of dollars with million dollar sponsorships should have acted more responsibly. I predict that he'll lose quite a bit of sponsors in the coming year.
     
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    Blackfish

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    Decent article

    http://www.si.com/racing/2014/08/10/tony-stewart-kevin-ward-legal-ramifications

    a few cut and paste....Just speculation

    "........he may have engaged in conduct consistent with murder in the second degree. Under New York law, murder in the second degree entails acting with a depraved indifference to human life and recklessly engaging in conduct that “creates a grave risk of death to another person, and thereby cause the death of another person.” New York classifies murder in the second degree as an A-I felony, and it carries up to a life sentence and minimum of 15 years behind bars."



    ".......Second, “criminal intent” is not the only state of mind that could lead to criminal charges against Stewart. For instance, negligent homicide refers to accidentally causing the death of another through negligent conduct, such as reckless operation of a motor vehicle. Crucially, negligent homicide would not require that Stewart intentionally tried to kill Ward, only that he drove recklessly or carelessly. Such misconduct might include trying to scare — but not hurt — Ward. In New York, negligent homicide is a Class E felony and carries a maximum punishment of four years in prison.

    Another plausible, though less likely, charge against Stewart is manslaughter in the first degree, which would necessitate that Stewart intended to cause Ward serious harm and in doing so killed him. A conviction would carry a prison sentence of up to 25 years. Manslaughter in the second degree, which carries a prison term of up to 15 years, would be appropriate if Stewart’s conduct in driving was deemed sufficiently reckless and connected to Ward’s death.

    New York also has several criminal statutes related specifically to vehicular homicide. None of them appears relevant to Ward’s death. These statutes contemplate multiple deaths or injuries caused by a person’s driving, as well as excessive use of drugs or alcohol, or driving with a poor record. Stewart did not injure anyone other than Ward, and there is no reason at this time to believe that he was driving under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or that he faced prior charges related to his driving....."
     
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    Blackfish

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    Not seeing it.

    None of the noises on the video can be definitively attributed to the 14 car. That video is picking up noises from all over the track.
    I don't really see what the wheels are doing in the second or two before impact -- the video followed the previous car. I see what they did right at the moment of impact -- which could easily have been affected by hitting the poor kid.

    I do not see how one can say this was intentional based upon this video.

    Did Stewart even know the guy was out of the car before he rounded the corner? No spotter on these tracks. . . .


    Fair enough. but if you go to 34 seconds, stop the vid at 34, and keep playing it back to back, over and over several times, you will se the wheels turn left, which kicks the ass end in toward him, then he guns it to kick the ass end back out, away from him. You can argue he was trying to stir away from him, but IMO, the kid was never in the path of the car in the first place, so there was no reason to try and stir away from him in the first place. I still believe he tried to buzz him/ knock him down, and it didn't end well for the dumb ass kid.

    I also call BS on the argument, "He didn't see him".
     
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    wils

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    I also call BS on the argument, "He didn't see him".

    aw heck. you can call yo' mama, too......... if you want.


    I recall using "agenda" someplace above. You obviously have one. ;)

    "accident" has been used, too.

    lets toss "inherent risk" and/or "assumed risk" into the mix.

    but "just speculation"? That pretty much firms up your agenda right there.
     
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    Blackfish

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    I also call BS on the argument, "He didn't see him".

    aw heck. you can call yo' mama, too......... if you want.


    I recall using "agenda" someplace above. You obviously have one. ;)

    "accident" has been used, too.

    lets toss "inherent risk" and/or "assumed risk" into the mix.
    I am sure this will be part of the investigation.
    but "just speculation"? That pretty much firms up your agenda right there.


    Wils, not sure how you can say i have a agenda. Have you ever seen me post or even talk about auto racing. The "sport" is anything but interesting to me. I have no agenda. ZERO! I have no interest in auto racing. NONE! Never have, never will. Not my thing.

    I am just discussing this event. This is deserving of speculative investigation, to see if there was a crime committed. A guy is dead, i would think it is worthy of at least that. They may or may not find enough evidence to take it to court. So be it. We shall see.That is how our system works, but I do feel he (Stewart) did this on purpose (not running him over, but attempted to brush him).
     
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    wils

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    Wils, not sure how you can say i have a agenda. Have you ever seen me post or even talk about auto racing. The "sport" is anything but interesting to me. I have no agenda. ZERO! I have no interest in auto racing. NONE! Never have, never will. Not my thing.

    I am just discussing this event. This is deserving of speculative investigation, to see if there was a crime committed. A guy is dead, i would think it is worthy of at least that. They may or may not find enough evidence to take it to court. So be it. We shall see.That is how our system works, but I do feel he (Stewart) did this on purpose (not running him over, but attempted to brush him).

    Your "Speculative investigation" based soley on a single frame inside a single video belongs in a super market check-out line tabloid with "speculative investigations" of aliens based soley on excerpts from "Men in Black".....along with all the other tabloid-quality agendae. :D
     
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    ?? fisherman

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    but I do feel he (Stewart) did this on purpose (not running him over, but attempted to brush him).

    Mike ~

    I think this is why so many are opposing your stance on this. I think most of us don't even come close (not even close at all!) to seeing anything to lead us to believe anything near what you are saying!

    You just stated that you have little interest in the sport, and in fact don't really follow it, which I would think means you don't even watch it often? I too am not all that into the sport of racing, although I know of a few who are. This much I know of the sport and just racing in general whether it be bicycles, horses, motorcycles, race cars or what have you.

    To get in the lead position can get very touchy and physical...... it's not uncommon at all! Guys draft and work until they feel the time is right to make their move...... sometimes it works, and other times it gets hairy! Many times it ends in people going down...... you see it in all forms of racing, but racing cars or vehicles that go really really fast is even crazier yet...... it's part of the sport and always will be.

    What I don't get is how you can make such a vague assumption that you feel this was intentional based just on those videos......that's just crazy.

    Just from the standpoint that you are not a big follower of the sport is one thing, but to base those opinions from those few shady clips and come to the conclusion that you feel it was intentional just by viewing those???? Damn bro, I dunno, but that's hanging a guy right there in my eyes! There is nothing even close in those videos to support what you are saying.

    I don't believe for a single second that this was anywhere near done on purpose..... not even for second do I think he even wanted or tried to come close and scare him as you believe. The first car alone almost clipped the poor kid, and Tony was making the corner right behind him. Way too fast, dark, on a curve, and with a guy dressed in black....... that right there is enough to figure this out pretty well....... it all happened way to fast, and I personally believe Tonys reaction was probably way more of a "Whoa, WTF!!" and then just a natural reaction to swerve and nothing more. To think he came around that corner and saw him well in his sights and then decided in that split second to try and brush him? No way bro!!

    I'm sure I and everyone else feels terrible for what happened to that young kid! I mean C'mon.... just 20 years old..... such a senseless and avoidable shame!!

    My dad was running a giant trench digger many years back on a job site in Pacific Beach when I was a pre teen. While running this machine, a guy stood to close to the edge and the ground gave way and the guy fell in suddenly, and before my dad could stop the trench digger, the guy had suffered fatal injuries! My dad had to undergo countless investigations over this, and to this day I will never forget him coming home from work each and every day after this happened (for what seemed like months on end) and just sitting in his chair with a blank stare and often shedding tears, although trying to hide it from his kids. I hated seeing my dad like that. That incident changed him forever :(

    It tore him up up badly knowing this guy died while he was running this piece of machinery, and the investigations made it even worse to see if he was at fault (which he wasn't!). He too felt terrible for the young guy (who had a wife & family) who died at his hands (but not his fault), and honestly I don't think he ever got over it!

    None of us can get into the head of a person, but from what I know and have experienced, I would bet big money that Tony Stewart is going through alot of mental hardship over this right now........ far more than most people can even imagine. Many tears will be shed by this man..... no doubt about it! This was strictly a very unfortunate accident and nothing more!

    Sorry Mike, you are one of the very good guys on this site, and I hate disagreeing with you here...... but I feel you have this way way wrong. Read the replies from the guys who are heavy into this sport, and the guys on here who have posted about even driving these cars. Your answer should be spelled loud and clear on just a few of those replies.

    The view coming around that dark corner following a guy who himself came close to hitting the guy, and the fact that he was still pressing forward on the track and dressed in black. That was a very bad decision by that kid which lead to a very terrible and unfortunate accident.... nothing more!

    The unknown fisherman:p:
     
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    MikeyLikesIt

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    "Shit happens" on a racetrack. It's called "RACING".

    When a guy or gal gets into or onto a bike, a car, a boat, a buggy, a truck, etc; and goes out onto a racetrack, there is an unspoken acknowledgement of risk. When you have been going round and round for 30 minutes, wheel to wheel with your competition, you take your shots at passing. You do NOT stop and think about the consequences, or all the "what if's", because if you do, you get left in the dust.

    I know. I went thru that learning curve.

    the day a race driver has to stop and wonder if they'll be sued, or jailed, for making that pass, or bumping the guy next to him, it wont be racing anymore. Then, why bother?

    ......they way things are going in this country, it won't be long. :shake:
     
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    Sluester

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    I wasnt there so I dont know the track conditions. ...
    So a lot of you are saying Stuart didn't do it on purpose? How do you know what he was thinking? These guys have an amazibg ability to drive cars.

    I don't know if he was trying to just give the kid a scare or didn't see him. Caution was out. Experienced drivers slow down, especially if you just caused the caution. The wrecked car should mean go low on that part of the track.

    They haven't proved anything either way. Some of you think have.
     
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    winningman

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    is that mean you see dumm ass walking/ running on the freeway.

    Do you try to avoid it, or try to brush off and Rev up engine...?

    especially that dirt track, race car with that much power, he knows better that it will spin out...

    just my thought...
     
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    ?? fisherman

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    Speaking for myself here, I'm not saying Tony didn't do this on purpose, but instead I'm saying that I don't think for a second he did.

    Could he have..... sure I suppose so. But I think what's happening here is that just because these two drivers cars touched on a corner which resulted in Wards car spinning out, and then Ward exiting the car in anger, compiled with Stewart being known as an aggressive driver is what's blowing this whole thing out of proportion!

    Everyone is suddenly letting their minds go wild on thoughts that Stewart tried to hit this kid...... i'm just not buying it.

    Did you by chance notice how close another car came to hitting Ward right before Stewarts did? I wonder what the discussions would be now if it had been that car instead of Stewarts that hit the kid. Of course we'll never know, but I would bet big money that nobody would even be talking about that driver trying to brush the kid on purpose, even though he did come very close to him!

    Watch the video again, even in all the reports they say the first car also swerved and basically made the same move as Stewarts car to avoid Ward.

    I read all about what Paul Kinney is now saying, but then again other drivers are not exactly taking his stance either. Paul Kinney said that while he didn't witness the crash, he drove past Ward moments before he was hit, and by his words "I seen Kevin clear as day. Nobody else ran into him". Of course nobody else ran into him..... it just takes one car, and it just so happened to be Stewarts, although that first car came awfully close.

    Kinney also may not have been in the same situation as Stewart when rounding that corner. Some cars were on the lower portion of that turn, but then again some were not, and just like someone mentioned before.......have you ever been driving on the freeway when all of a sudden a car in front of you suddenly swerves to avoid something, and next thing you know, that something is now right in your path!?

    Like Mikey said, it's the sport of racing...... it gets crazy..... it's the nature of the sport. Had Ward just sucked it up and stayed in his car and dealt with it later in the pits, he'd still be with us today. The whole thing sucks, but to try and pin this on Stewart is totally wrong!

    The unknown fisherman:p:
     
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    ?? fisherman

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    is that mean you see dumm ass walking/ running on the freeway.

    Do you try to avoid it, or try to brush off and Rev up engine...?

    especially that dirt track, race car with that much power, he knows better that it will spin out...

    just my thought...

    So what are you implying here?

    Do you know or have you read about how these sprint cars are steered? Throttling up is a big part of steering these cars.

    The unknown fisherman:p:
     
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    ConSeaMate

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    I watch a lot of racing......more then most.....Tony has a history of doing stupid shit .......believe what you want and I'll believe what I want and that is I believe Tony wanted to throw some dirt on this kid by spinning his wheels and the trick back fired on him.......
     
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    BiggestT

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    I predict no criminal charges will come of this. It may go to civil trial where the concept of Contributory Negligence will come into play. There one could see that for getting out of his car on a race track during a race to taunt another driver, Mr. Ward would be 90% to 95% contributory negligent. For possibly buzzing Ward or trying to avoid him, Stewart could be considered maybe 5% contributory negligent. I think all would be wise to consider this a tragedy and put it behind them, maybe learning something from it.
     
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    ?? fisherman

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    I watch a lot of racing......more then most.....Tony has a history of doing stupid shit .......believe what you want and I'll believe what I want and that is I believe Tony wanted to throw some dirt on this kid by spinning his wheels and the trick back fired on him.......

    And just what's his history of stupid shit? Being an aggressive driver? Voicing his strong opinion and not holding back? It's a sport of inches, bumps and collisions, which easily leads to hot tempers. But it's also part of the sport right?

    So did the other car right before Stewarts, also have the intent to throw dirt on the kid? Because he sure came damn close as well.


    Here is another take from another driver in the race, and this also explains how these cars are steered...... as the throttle plays a big part.

    _____________________________________________________
    Povero said at this time, there are no facts that support any criminal behavior or conduct, or probable cause in the crash, but emphasized that the investigation is open.

    Investigators have now reviewed two videos of the incident. Povero said they show two different angles of Ward walking on the track after a crash at turn two on the 14th lap, and then being hit by Stewart's winged sprint car.



    "From what I saw, Tony did everything in his power to turn down away from Kevin to avoid him," said sprint car driver Cory Sparks.
    Sparks was just a few cars behind Stewart during Saturday's race. He said videos that have been posted online do not give an accurate picture of what happened.

    "People say that they heard the engine rev up and he gassed it. In a sprint car, the only way to steer is you steer with the rear wheels as much as you do the steering wheel. In my opinion, what he did was he gassed it to turn down away from him," said Sparks.

    Sparks also said drivers are very limited with the amount they can see out of the right side of the car.

    "Kevin was wearing all-black. A black fire suit, a black helmet, which in normal situations isn't a big deal, they are to go with the colors of your car. It was tragic accident and a mistake was made," said Sparks.

    Povero said investigators have spoken to Stewart twice, and they are continuing to speak with other racers, track staff, and those in the stands to figure out exactly what happened.

    "I think that the biggest thing is to remember Kevin Ward as a great race car driver, not a victim of Tony Stewart," said Sparks.




    - See more at: http://rochester.twcnews.com/conten...ed-hitting-other-driver/#sthash.2HvG3qKM.dpuf
    _____________________________________________________

    The unknown fisherman:p:
     
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