Time for a YT regulation change?

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Keepin my pimp hand strong!
Mar 4, 2005
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As if the MPAs aren't enough some of you want even more CA style regulations? Pelagics aren't just our fish for starters and yes, since we don't require a license to fish piers and jetties there are people catching and keeping about anything they catch off of them.
 
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talltale

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We are doing this to ourselves. Regulations will continue to increase because the fish populations off our coast cannot survive the relentless fishing pressure. It is a shame Cali DFW is not interested in enriching the fish population for the sake of the sportsman. If it was, we would have slot limits.
 

Jigslinger

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Now what the hell was "smug,conceited or asinine" with any of my comments ?
It was when you said people who fish once or twice a year don’t usually catch yellows. I agree with you completely. Nothing ‘smug’ about that to me. Just truth. :hali_olutta:
 

Saba Slayer

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This whole conversation is pointless...as none of you jokers will ever show up at a DFG Commission meeting and speak up or at a DFW Marine Resources Meeting where you could get the ball rolling on any new regs or suggestions on regs.
As Willdoggy said...
"SEEMS FAIR SINCE WE ARE ALL JUST FIXING STUFF HERE."
So...rant on...!

Jim /Saba Slayer
 

SouthBayKiller

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This whole conversation is pointless...as none of you jokers will ever show up at a DFG Commission meeting and speak up or at a DFW Marine Resources Meeting where you could get the ball rolling on any new regs or suggestions on regs.
As Willdoggy said...
"SEEMS FAIR SINCE WE ARE ALL JUST FIXING STUFF HERE."
So...rant on...!

Jim /Saba Slayer
Jim,

When is the next round of meetings? How far in advance are they scheduled and are they at times when people who work normal shifts can attend?

I'd be interested in going if I can make it.
 

Yellowtail Dan

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I think the 5 fish per day limit is spot on. 10 rats in a gunny sack cooking for a couple hours while good for the boat owners isn't good for the fish on any level
 
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Azarkon

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Mexico's one size fits all approach is easy from a regulation perspective but makes no sense for many types of fish. It's more that they just don't bother to check in the first place. How many times have you been stopped by Mexico's fish and game? They care more that you have the documentation so they know you paid to fish there. I know guys who regularly go there and take HUNDREDS of pounds of rock fish and that's from paid charters. Laws are useless when it's only on paper.
 

fishkilr

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Jim... has As much as I would like to speak on behalf of other fisherman I realize that my views are in the extreme minority ...
I fish to catch... killing after catching makes no difference to me unless its a commercial trip so no take for sportfish would be ok with me..
Slot limits are used many places and it's obvious increase the trophy catches we are all looking for but it seems there is some agenda that prevents so cal from using them ...
 
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Azarkon

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We are doing this to ourselves. Regulations will continue to increase because the fish populations off our coast cannot survive the relentless fishing pressure. It is a shame Cali DFW is not interested in enriching the fish population for the sake of the sportsman. If it was, we would have slot limits.
You're assuming yellowtail populations can't handle the current pressure and that what we do is what decides the survival of the species. But we make up only 10 to 15% of the actual range of these fish - just the very northern edge of it. The vast majority of these fish spend their lives in Mexico, and only come into our waters to feed during warm water years, typically in schools of similar sized fish. A species like this might show up with millions of rats one year, and then tons of large fish in another. Creating a slot limit for yellowtail is like creating a slot limit for tuna, in this respect - it's almost impossible to predict the population structure off of California in any given year, so any limit we set could exclude any where from 0% to 99% of the fish we get.

Also, consider the opportunity cost - in the old days, rock fish, which IS a local fish, was vastly over fished due to people preferring them over chasing tuna and yellowtail. They had to shut down over 70% of the coast to bottom fishing to address the collapse. Should we put more limits on top water fish, the pressure is almost certainly going to increase on bottom fish, just like it did in Oregon when their salmon season closed. We definitely don't want more pressure on rock fish as that's the number one reason marine protection areas are created.

So I'd rather the sport boats target a healthy population of fast growing yellowtail than turn their attention to slow growing rock fish. We've gone through that disaster once, it would be terrible to go through it again.
 
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talltale

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So I take it you are absolutely against slot limits of any kind on all species? You present a extremely narrow argument.
 
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Azarkon

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For reference, this is what the management said the last time an idea like this came up. While yellowtail slot limits have never been formally proposed, BFT slot limits were proposed at the federal level for the west coast:

NOAA should have considered a slot size limit (range of allowable harvest by size) to protect younger, pre-spawning PBF and older, reproductively mature PBF.

Response:
The majority of PBF harvested by U.S. anglers in the EPO are 1-3 year old juvenile fish (average weight 30 pounds) that have not yet reached sexual maturity (i.e., are reproductively inactive). PBF reach sexual maturity at approximately five years of age and roughly 125 pounds. PBF spawn in the western Central Pacific Ocean (WCPO) between central Japan and the northern Philippines, and in the Sea of Japan from April through August (2014 PBF Stock Assessment, International Scientific Committee for Tuna and Tuna-like Species in the North Pacific Ocean). Very few PBF of spawning size are available to U.S. anglers in the EPO therefore a slot limit constraining harvest by size would not be a demonstrably effective measure. In addition, instituting a slot limit management measure would require additional and costly monitoring and compliance resources to effectively implement. Expanded state and Federal monitoring efforts, including increased dockside surveys and at-sea sampling efforts, are being implemented to more accurately track the recreational and commercial harvest of PBF to comply with conservation measures in place.
The same may or may not apply to yellowtail but judging by the fact that the vast majority of the reported high yellowtail counts are of smaller fish, I imagine it does apply.
 

talltale

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Let us continue to rape the ocean then my friend.
 

Azarkon

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Let us continue to rape the ocean then my friend.
The people who are actually destroying the ocean are industrial commercial fishermen, especially from other countries, yet I see no attempt to impose severe limits on them because money. I stand on the side of recreational fishermen, who have long been the little guy when it comes to fishing.

Telling guys who pay a week's salary to get on a sport boat that they can't take home fish, while commercial guys wrap thousands of tons every day and virtually destroyed our near shore fishing two decades ago, is just absurd.
 
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walkerman

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It was when you said people who fish once or twice a year don’t usually catch yellows. I agree with you completely. Nothing ‘smug’ about that to me. Just truth. :hali_olutta:

Perhaps if he had said “some” people. My point was many folks ..... who are good fishermen.... only go a couple of times a year, and they actually target wsb or yellows. It is smug when you lump everyone who fishes less than you do into one group who does not fish well.
 
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Azarkon

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Perhaps if he had said “some” people. My point was many folks ..... who are good fishermen.... only go a couple of times a year, and they actually target wsb or yellows. It is smug when you lump everyone who fishes less than you do into one group who does not fish well.
I don't think whether people go a few times a year or many times a year should be relevant to the discussion. I can't see how an argument like 'I only go twice a year so I have a right to bring back rat yellowtail' would work either from a moral perspective or a legal perspective. You fish when you can, whatever the limit.

My problem is with proposals to impose a slot limit without knowing what it costs and whether it'll actually help in any significant way. Allow me to pose a simple question: why don't this topic ever come up for BFT on this forum, a fish whose population is in much worse shape and where 99% of the fish caught in California would be illegal under a slot limit? Is it because the people who fish BFT are fundamentally a separate crowd who go after them only for the meat? Is it because BFT are so hard to catch that nobody would even think about releasing one? Because the same arguments that people use for yellowtail, can also apply to BFT.

Yeah, it's a tradition to bitch about rat yellowtail every year, but I'll never get why people are so obsessed with a least concern fish like yellowtail, where 90% of the habitat is in Mexico and the fish doesn't even form a stable population structure in California. It isn't rational. Yeah, we can put a slot limit on local yellowtail - that will have absolutely no effect except shift more business to Mexico.
 
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fishkilr

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I don't think whether people go a few times a year or many times a year should be relevant to the discussion. I can't see how an argument like 'I only go twice a year so I have a right to bring back rat yellowtail' would work either from a moral perspective or a legal perspective. You fish when you can, whatever the limit.

My problem is with proposals to impose a slot limit without knowing what it costs and whether it'll actually help in any significant way. Allow me to pose a simple question: why don't this topic ever come up for BFT on this forum, a fish whose population is in much worse shape and where 99% of the fish caught in California would be illegal under a slot limit? Is it because the people who fish BFT are fundamentally a separate crowd who go after them only for the meat? Is it because BFT are so hard to catch that nobody would even think about releasing one? Because the same arguments that people use for yellowtail, can also apply to BFT.

I don't get why people are so obsessed with a least concern fish like yellowtail, where 90% of the habitat is in Mexico and the fish doesn't even form a stable population structure in California. It doesn't seem rational.
To me Tuna are thought of as a strictly migratory fish usually caught far offshore that will completely disappear from an area and travel great distances based on water temps and conditions...
Yellows while migratory are caught nearshore on shallow high spots and many of us believe some remain in those general areas year round creating a more personal relationship with many local guys somewhat similar to bass...
I believe the yellowtail to be a much more intelligent fish which creates a much tougher adversary and challenge in the sport I love so favoring their protection over tuna is no surprise to me..
 
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strackle99

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I think that a 5 fish limit, with 3 under 24, and 2 over 24 is very reasonable.

Three fish under 24 is not a bad day, and 2 over 24 is a good day. If you fill your limit, it's a great day.

This would allow small fish to flourish, and become breeders. It would also allow plenty of smaller fish to grow to 30+ inches.
 

Azarkon

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To me Tuna are thought of as a strictly migratory fish usually caught far offshore that will completely disappear from an area and travel great distances based on water temps and conditions...
Yellows while migratory are caught nearshore on shallow high spots and many of us believe some remain in those general areas year round creating a more personal relationship with many local guys somewhat similar to bass...
I believe the yellowtail to be a much more intelligent fish which creates a much tougher adversary and challenge in the sport I love so favoring their protection over tuna is no surprise to me..
First time I heard yellowtail are smarter than BFT...

But yellowtail, even the home guards, don't seem to stick around when the water gets cold. Look at 2010 and how shit the yellowtail fishing that year was. Where were the home guards, then? Maybe you can trap them in a harbor and force them to live there. But when they have freedom, they move.
 
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fishkilr

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First time I heard yellowtail are smarter than BFT...

But yellowtail, even the home guards, don't seem to stick around when the water gets cold. Look at 2010 and how shit the yellowtail fishing that year was. Where were the home guards, then? Maybe you can trap them in a harbor and force them to live there. But when they have freedom, they move.
Just because rec guys aren't catching doesn't mean they are not around...
We caught yellows a few years ago that were stuffed with rockfish,sand dabs.and many other forage we never saw before making it clear those fish didn't move out when their normal forage moved out ..
Know a dragger who mops up huge halibut in hueneme canyon in 230+ feet of water.. there are very few if any rec anglers targeting those fish and most are shocked to even hear they are there..
In so cal yellows can pop up any time of year at any traditional high spot leading me to believe that many don't migrate and hang in deep water 250+ unknown to rec guys..
As far as intelligence I'm talking about their structure oriented way of escaping which seems to require a thought process the tuna doesn't seem to possess...
 
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plj46

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The people who are actually destroying the ocean are industrial commercial fishermen, especially from other countries, yet I see no attempt to impose severe limits on them because money. I stand on the side of recreational fishermen, who have long been the little guy when it comes to fishing.

Telling guys who pay a week's salary to get on a sport boat that they can't take home fish, while commercial guys wrap thousands of tons every day and virtually destroyed our near shore fishing two decades ago, is just absurd.
I agree commercial fishing is a problem but to think recreational fishing doesn't have an impact is denial.Check the San diego landings yearly total for fish caught and then tell us we don't impact anything.That's just the party boat fleet,ad the private fleet to those numbers if you could and we catch a lot of fish.
 

Azarkon

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Just because rec guys aren't catching doesn't mean they are not around...
We caught yellows a few years ago that were stuffed with rockfish,sand dabs.and many other forage we never saw before making it clear those fish didn't move out when their normal forage moved out ..
Know a dragger who mops up huge halibut in hueneme canyon in 230+ feet of water.. there are very few if any rec anglers targeting those fish and most are shocked to even hear they are there..
In so cal yellows can pop up any time of year at any traditional high spot leading me to believe that many don't migrate and hang in deep water 250+ unknown to rec guys..
As far as intelligence I'm talking about their structure oriented way of escaping which seems to require a thought process the tuna doesn't seem to possess...
Have you ever caught baby yellowtail when the water's below 60 degrees? The fish isn't known to reproduce in water below 62 degrees, which is why i say it's not a local fish. The height of their spawn is in central Baja, where the water reaches well over 70 degrees. The presence of home guards that stay, but don't reproduce, doesn't make them a local fish. It's like BFT where recently it was discovered the fish stick around for several years before they eventually head back to Japan to spawn. Yeah, they're in California year round, but that doesn't make them local fish with a stable population structure.

Were this Mexico, I'd say yeah, do a study on the population structure and evaluate whether a slot limit would help grow the population. But how are you going to do that on a fish that's here one year, gone the next?