Discussion in 'San Diego Long Range fishing Reports' started by reellady, Dec 5, 2015.
Dang Girl! What they been feeding you? Wheaties for sure.
Sorry to hear about your loss.
Would that be a pack of hooks, or a cow tuna?
Hmmm...Interesting. I had a Pro Pack of smaller hooks that had five ringed hooks that weren't welded properly. No big deal if you catch them before you start fishing. Very difficult to maintain quality control at 100% when Flash Welding or Resistance Butt Welding so many small pieces at the speed necessary to make a profit.
Shimano also responds with "never heard of this problem" Or "this is the first time I have heard of this problem" when you call with a common problem with their reels. I had several conversations with Shimano regarding their Trinidad reels.
Sounds like a pretty standard reply "never seen this" "first time...."
It would be a shock if they said, "oh, yeah, happens all the time!"
Kub, had the same response you had regarding drag plates on Trinidads. Stamped plates deformity as the drag star was buttoned down and those crappy washers. Total denial.
Have not broke a hook yet but I do not fish Owner Hooks, I fish hard enough.
Would you care to share the reasons you don't like Owner Super Mutu hooks?
X2 on the knot. Looks like a San Diego with the line around the ring flattened out, or a San Diego with the line looped twice around the ring.
I don't like the cutting point IMO it can enlarge the entry hole in a long fight increasing the possibility of the hook coming out.....it is also what I consider a "modified" circle point which increases the chances of the hook not setting up in the corner of the fishes mouth...if the hook sets deeper in the mouth or gut or gills it greatly increases the possibility of getting chewed off and finally I feel the hook is heavy and thick which causes IMO undue damage to to the bait and any excess weight is a detriment IMO when flylining sardines.
Many many fish have been caught by anglers using Super Mutus and lots of accomplished anglers use them exclusively I don't mean this to begin some kind of debate on hooks cause it is a blondes verses redhead kinda conversation.... just want to answer your inquiry and explain why I choose not to use Super Mutus for cow fishing.
Thank you. Interesting observations.
Fishy is right.... I shoulder hook my bait and find it very hard to do without mangling the bait. What comes to mind when I hear that the hook broke on a lost fish is a Owner Hook. Because the hook is so sharp and it is not a true circle hook it will find it's way in to other places. On hard bone it's like putting the hook in a vice.
The deck crew I fish with told me long ago... Mustads bend and Mutu's break. Since then Mustad has up scaled but still have the same Mutu. Advertised as the sharpest, cutting point hook.
What changed my mind about hooks was a story told here about an angler that lost tuna after tuna on the Vagabond. Mike came down and looked at his hook, a cutting point hook. He took his pliers to the point and broke it off. Grabbed a bait and casted it out, hooked and handed the rod back to the angler. When the fish came in the hook was right in the corner of the mouth.
Remember when a hook pulls and you get the hook back that is also a hook failure. Most will brush it off and say oh well it was not meant to be, at least I got my hook back. Well the hook did not place correctly more likely because of the hook design.
The hooks you like are indestructible. They are also becoming increasingly hard to come by. The 3000 I have on order has been cancelled with no answer on when and if they will be made again.
Meeting with VMC Thursday to see whats up.
I have NEVER had a issue with those hooks either John........just got some 10/0's they are awesome.
I treasure the hooks I got from you a few years back.
Is that VMC Dynamic ringed 5/0 big enough for Sardines?
As far as the ring Steve, personally if it is put on by VMC I would cut it off. Not completely round but a washer. 5/0 for pick bite or smaller sardines, 6/0 normal sardines. At least that is my strategy.
Actually, what we have here is a failure to communicate...... OOPS, wrong script. Looking at the ring it looks like the brazer may have been a bit over zealous. The section that broke appears to have been thinned on the side closest to the knot. If you look at many of your ringed hooks there may be a nick, notch, thin section, etc. on one side or the other of a poor braze job. Worse yet, an overuse or miss alignment of the brazing torch can result in the braze either not being centered or possibly thinning out the closest side to the torch head rather than heating the center of the joint. What happens is when any of the above situations creates an uneven, non smooth transition, or nicked looking edge of braze, the result is an area where a crack can easily propagate from .. Unfortunately, I have seen too many rings with this sort of situation.
As you can see from the picture, non stamped or even stamped rings used for this application generally do not carry much of a heat treat or temper to them if any at all. If they did your opened ring would probably have cracked before this much distortion could occur. However, a circle is very strong shape when the braze is even reasonably performed and thus a higher level heat treat, such as found on a X rated, forged hook, is just not required. There is just no way to break a properly brazed ring doing what we do regardless if we have 25 pounds of pressure of 80 pounds of pressure.
I personally am still using Guy and Annette's products from Ringedhooks.com. If I am fishing big baits they can even go to a large diameter ring to reduce pressure points on the line connecting to the ring. These are not super large diameter rings but they are sometimes bigger than the hook eye itself.
At the end of the day, I am still anal enough to check out every ringed hook I purchase before they come on the boat with me to inspect for any sort of nicks, mismatched diameter sides or poor braze jobs. Those go directly in the trash. I have only come across a few entire Packages of badly ringed hooks otherwise the package would go straight to the manufacturer. If I was not so lazy I would send even a single failed or badly brazed ring and or hook to the manufacturer for their inspection with a note about what happened or what you are seeing upon inspection. I am willing to bet, in most cases, a top hook manufacturer will send you at least one new package of hooks and an appology. Though that will never replace the lost fish it is still called customer service and is all you can ask for.
As a note, since you appear addicted to this sport there is no doubt you, like the rest of us, will find many ways to lose a fish but more often than not we will land them (Unless you are like me and use a spinner and or popper and Popping rod). Big tuna, unfortunately, always find the weak link in the armor.
Have a great season.
Tony at Owner said, "this is a first" and "weird". He said he was sending me hooks in Monday's mail. The word "sorry" never was mentioned.
Not many people say I'm sorry anymore. It's really too bad that good manners are disappearing. My next adventure is to check all my rings. Thanks Jamie for the above info.
I have had attorneys tell me for literally decades that under a great many circumstances the words "I'm sorry" convey not only a sentiment of empathy, but also an admission of personal or corporate responsibility. It is one of the most asinine interpretations of which I have ever heard, but I know a lot of people who have been taught forcefully never to use those words. Interestingly enough, I have never heard of a case where a plaintiff's counsel ever argued that the defendant's expression "I'm sorry!" actually constituted an admission of culpability...
In any case, for reasons of (perceived) liability, you will very rarely hear a representative of a business say those words. It's kind of a shame.
Donna, sucks to lose a big fish that way. For this reason, many of us ring our own hooks. I don't know how the strength of a silver soldered stainless ring compares to welded but at least you have the choice of what level of quality is acceptable. For me, that's perfect. If a ring doesn't turn out exactly right, it gets cut off and re-done. I too have lost some big fish, but not that way yet. The equipment and materials to do your own isn't that much compared to other things in this sport. A torch, silver solder, rings, flux, a couple pairs of pliers and something to hold the ring and you are good. (Probably less than $150. If interested in doing that, PM me and I'll send you some links for the stuff needed). If I didn't do my own, I'd probably use Guy at ringedhooks.com as the likelihood of getting a quality product is higher than mass produced. JMO...
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