Super Strong Guide Wrapping

yessokk

Luck favors the well prepared.
Sep 18, 2006
1,133
1,484
Costa Mesa, Cailf
Name
Walt
Boat
11 ft Sears W/Duel 5.2hp
Instead of using the standard thread for the first wrap on a double wrap over the guide foot build, started using 10-12 lb un-coated spectra for the first wrap. Epoxy coat then do the second wrap with the standard thread in the color desired. Standard thread breaks around 4 lbs the spectra can break up to 20 lbs. . Yes,,, the spectra is somewhat thicker but that represents nothing negative when doing this first wrap. Started using this method over a year ago with absolutely no problems Wanted to make sure it was bullet proof before telling others. The main issue is to make sure an UN-coated spectra is used which insures that the epoxy thoroughly penetrates into the fabric of the line.

Am not sure doing this is really necessary as the present method works just fine. It might have an application when considering a triple wrap over the foot. It could be reduced to just 2.
My .37 cents worth for your consideration.
Walt
 

K. D.

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Apr 20, 2011
451
146
Bremerton, WA
Name
Kerry Hansen
Boat
RIVER SLED
Tried that about 20 years ago. Problem with it, is since the spectra type line doesn't stretch so it doesn't track very well and hard to wrap.
 

njoyflyfishing

Well-Known "Member"
May 3, 2016
49
20
Diamond Bar, CA
Name
Nathan
Boat
16' Slideright
Thanks for the tip Walt. I was thinking of doing something like this with one of the Fuji plate reel seats on a deckhand rod. Not even sure that I need to use the epoxy, but it would probably help keep the reel seat in place over a longer period of time. Only question I had was how easy either a guide or this reel seat would be to remove once tied with braid and epoxied.
 

mike mitchell

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jul 25, 2017
2,537
1,630
61
San Diego
Name
Michael Mitchell
Boat
20 Bertram
You will have so much fun taking it apart to change a guide!
 

skrilla

allirks
May 26, 2006
2,953
6,127
San Diego
Name
Len
Boat
plastic fantastic
Sounds like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist... or a problem waiting to happen. 🤔

Think about it. Blanks flex, guides flex, epoxy will flex, then you add into the mix an element that does the complete opposite.

I'll share a story. I had a blank snap like a twig at the end of a wrap. I do recall wrapping it as tight as possible ( I was still new to this and didn't know any better ). Did my research about thread tension afterwards and learned at least a couple others had the same experience.

Over the years I've gotten into conversations with two different big wigs from the industry. Both times talking about hoop strength and how a blank needs to "oval" just enough when flexed or else it would snap . This made my mistake a lot easier to understand. By fully stretching the thread and wrapping as tight as I could I essentially took away the blank's ability to "oval" thus causing it to snap.

Kind of breaks it down but to a small sample size. But as is yours. Everyone's miles will vary. If it works for you, cool... good luck.

That said, a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. A rod that calls for a triple wrap is a rod that probably has the total build weight a low priority and performance a top one. I don't know about you but I'd rather fish a rod that's triple wrapped be heavy in weight but in one piece rather than try to shave a few grams and risk snapping it in two.

And that's just putting a spotlight on performance and the risks that may arise. There's also other considerations such as color choice, wrapping difficulty, future guide repair, braid slipping under pressure ( think line spooling issues and loose tension ), premature wear of thread scissors or blades ( yes I know razor blades are cheap and I admit I'm splitting hairs on that one :D ).

My .37 pesos.
 

Johnlgarrison

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jul 27, 2009
2,578
1,789
62
Temecula CA USA!
www.inkspotsgreatdanes.com
Name
Johnny Garrison
Boat
Parker 2320 "Sticky Business 5"
I use 300# Chinese spectra to hold gaff hooks on. It works great.
 

gecsr1

28' Aquasport "Reel Adventure II"
Jul 15, 2005
13,966
3,513
Poway Ca
Name
Gary
Boat
28' Aquasport "Reel Adventure II" / PlainJaneRods
Sounds like a solution to a problem that doesn't exist... or a problem waiting to happen. 🤔

Think about it. Blanks flex, guides flex, epoxy will flex, then you add into the mix an element that does the complete opposite.

I'll share a story. I had a blank snap like a twig at the end of a wrap. I do recall wrapping it as tight as possible ( I was still new to this and didn't know any better ). Did my research about thread tension afterwards and learned at least a couple others had the same experience.

Over the years I've gotten into conversations with two different big wigs from the industry. Both times talking about hoop strength and how a blank needs to "oval" just enough when flexed or else it would snap . This made my mistake a lot easier to understand. By fully stretching the thread and wrapping as tight as I could I essentially took away the blank's ability to "oval" thus causing it to snap.

Kind of breaks it down but to a small sample size. But as is yours. Everyone's miles will vary. If it works for you, cool... good luck.

That said, a solution to a problem that doesn't exist. A rod that calls for a triple wrap is a rod that probably has the total build weight a low priority and performance a top one. I don't know about you but I'd rather fish a rod that's triple wrapped be heavy in weight but in one piece rather than try to shave a few grams and risk snapping it in two.

And that's just putting a spotlight on performance and the risks that may arise. There's also other considerations such as color choice, wrapping difficulty, future guide repair, braid slipping under pressure ( think line spooling issues and loose tension ), premature wear of thread scissors or blades ( yes I know razor blades are cheap and I admit I'm splitting hairs on that one :D ).

My .37 pesos.
wow very interesting,, Thanks...
how do you gauge the amount of tension you apply when you wrap your guides ?
 

One_Leg

Ret. Comm. Diver Medic
May 11, 2007
5,370
1,774
You're mined!
www.csicop.org
Name
Alan
Boat
1967 Cobia Cuddy Cabin/Evinrude Looper
I remember Capt G. saying you don't need thread and that epoxy was strong enough all by itself.
 

skrilla

allirks
May 26, 2006
2,953
6,127
San Diego
Name
Len
Boat
plastic fantastic
wow very interesting,, Thanks...
how do you gauge the amount of tension you apply when you wrap your guides ?
Rule of thumb... half the breaking strength. Enough so the guide is snug but still able to nudge them when it's time to align.

I remember Capt G. saying you don't need thread and that epoxy was strong enough all by itself.
I recall him doing a pull test to see how much force it takes to pull out a guide. After trying that test on my own I now have a genuine trust with a simple single wrap. A guide will not pull out under normal fishing conditions. But a lard ass shoe horning himself up the rail on a sportboat and snagging your rod is a different story.
 
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swami 805

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Mar 9, 2016
3,455
4,284
65
805
Name
Bill
Boat
sunk it
Thanks for the tip Walt. I was thinking of doing something like this with one of the Fuji plate reel seats on a deckhand rod. Not even sure that I need to use the epoxy, but it would probably help keep the reel seat in place over a longer period of time. Only question I had was how easy either a guide or this reel seat would be to remove once tied with braid and epoxied.
 

lazyfisherman

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Nov 28, 2006
680
641
Garden Grove
Name
Bobby
Boat
Cattle Boats
The thread and finish combine to create a composite material. Just like with any fiberglass, fiberglass is used to reinforce the epoxy for strength. More than the thickness of the thread, increasing the tension on the thread when wrapping would create a reinforced material that uses the tensile strength to reinforce the composite material.

Also, pulling on a guide on a casting rod is stupid. You'll never pull line off the rod that way when fishing, why do you care if you can pull the guide off? On a casting rod, the thread and epoxy is just there so the guide doesn't roll/slide sideways. Does triple wrapping the guide prevent the guide from sliding sideways?

Let's actually think of the forces in play when there's tension in the rod. If you wrapped it properly, the line will generally lie in the center of the guide, putting all the force straight into the blank. This is why I like using an underwrap. On a spinning rod, underwraps are definitely not needed as the guide is pulling away from the blank.

There's a lot of information out there, but to think just using thicker thread material to strengthen the guide is sending out the wrong idea. Also, using CP before finish tends to create the composite material with cp and thread, so it will not be as strong as just using finish with thread. But that's just my opinion and why I personally don't use CP. Luckily I only wrap my own rods and wrap it in black and white so I don't have to use CP.