Stop the local seining of our YFT and BFT.

Discussion in 'Fishing Chit Chat' started by DHSDave, Jul 12, 2017.

  1. DHSDave

    DHSDave Member

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    With all the destruction we've seen first-hand of the seiners in action literally a few miles off tbe beach at times, it's high time we try to do something about it. We are the ones producing significant economic revenue for our communities far greater than the commercials ever could by supporting our hobby in a sustainable matter. Every year we see the damage that the purse seiners inflict on our fishery turning what could be banner years into mediocre years. No commercial limit on yft, are you kidding me ?

    We need more than the CCA, we need to organize recs and sportfishers alike to stop the seining of our local pelagics. It makes no economic sense whatsoever, we need ideas and a plan going forward to take action and put an end to it. Please share and pm me with your ideas to make a difference for the future.
     
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  2. RyanErb

    RyanErb Love to fish!

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    More than the CCA?

    Why not take the backing of the CCA that is already established and use their platform for your agenda?

    I don't belong to the CCA myself, but rather than starting an entirely new organization, this may be the quickest route to victory, unless they aren't inline with your agenda.

    @flyliner said it best, limit seiners to 100 miles offshore and more, all out of reach of the regular rec guy.

    Just my .02 cents....
     
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  3. Bold #7

    Bold #7 Member

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    Great idea, just how do you plan on making it work? There are numerous countries involved with seining, with global ramifications. BIG money is the driver and lack of policeing is a problem. Good luck.
     
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  4. sealskinner

    sealskinner Retired Pimp

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    Big bucket of fucking worms. But to hear the one guy on here. The east coast boats are the big problem. Not our humble west coast commercials. LOL.
     
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  5. maurice escobedo

    maurice escobedo Counselor

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    100 miles is a great start. Hawaii went to 200 I believe two years ago.
    It sucks as a sport fisherman to see those guys out there just raping the fish.
     
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  6. the doctor

    the doctor BEEN AROUND

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    I agree 100%. Fish belong to everyone. If I can help changing the rules I will.
     
  7. fishkilr

    fishkilr on the water

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    How does this help stop seining?
     
  8. RamsNducks

    RamsNducks Member

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    Completely agree with this. It's almost Mid July and the yellowfin being caught are in counts of 3 and 4 per day. And this is on day a half trips out of Diego. Dorado???? 2-3 per trip. This is just stupid. Has the years changed? Are we gonna start fishing in September once the seiners are done filling there fish quotas.

    I would always count on July as the month of fishing. Now we are mid July and tuna are in the single digits. Just absolutely stupid with these seiners depleting the fish and we get hammered every year on regulations and increase fishing licenses.

    And if there's a jack ass troller from the other thread speak now I hope I see you on a boat I have a few words to say as this is a serious topic.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2017
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  9. Azarkon

    Azarkon I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    What frustrates most recreational fishermen about commercial fishing is that commercial guys can, in the name of making a profit, use methods that recreational guys would go to jail for 100 years for using.

    Long lining, drag netting, seining, trapping, gill netting, automatic jigging, ignoring depth restrictions, spotter planes, etc. These techniques give commercial fishermen such a huge advantage that there's no such concept as fair competition. Your only practical choice is to let them catch their quota, and hope they leave behind enough scraps for you to scratch a season out of.

    Of course, the argument on the other side is, this is their job. Recreational guys are just doing it for fun. Commercial guys do it for a living. But this is where it gets tricky - because industrial commercial fishing isn't about sustenance, it's about profit. Commercial guys don't fish because we need these fish, but because this is their business.

    And there's this whole other business in California, the one built around selling boats, rods, reels, lures, baits, services, and all the other products purchased by recreational fishermen. A business that, by many estimates, is actually bigger than the commercial fishing business, and brings in more tax revenue.

    To which end, it only makes sense for the two businesses - commercial and recreational fishing - to share the resource, and that's the way it's done in most states in the US. Commercial guys get their quota, and recreational guys get ours.

    The problem right now seems to be, the tuna quota for commercial guys is so big that they can literally fish out every tuna in California's waters, and still not meet it. Given their tremendous advantage in fishing technique, then, recreational guys are feeling a bit left out.
     
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  10. fishkilr

    fishkilr on the water

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    It seems to me that lack of tuna isn't an issue with the sport counts ...guys are seeing spot after spot and the seiner fleet being there confirms the presence of volume..
    Early season tuna many times don't respond to chum simply beacause they are targeting something particular..
    Typically later in the year you can find more spots of fish that will charge the boat if you brail bait hard enough...
    These last few years the lockjaw seems to have lasted much longer however hopefully with closer to normal temps this year we can get back to the fish responding in August,September and October and the counts will get better...
     
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  11. karlk1125

    karlk1125 Well-Known "Member"

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    Agree with all the statements on here. There is ZERO sustainability in wrapping up entire populations of tuna. What the rec fleet catches in a year is a drop in the bucket compared to what these guys seine in 2 weeks. It's bullshit the rec guys can only keep 2 bft while they can wrap up entire schools.
     
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  12. get some

    get some So Cal Editor BD Writer

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    The low tuna counts are not due to a lack of fish or purse seining pressure. They are due to the amount of bait in the area. There are massive amounts of tuna up and down the coast, they just aren't biting. Last month I was chasing 100 pound bluefin in front of Avalon. Yesterday my buddy looked at acres of yellowfin below Catalina but only found 2 fish willing to bite a popper.

    The US purse seine fleet is on such tight limits on bluefin that it's hardly worth targeting. The few seiners that are fishing yellowfin aren't even putting a dent in the amount of fish up here. By the way the seiners fish every year and they are catching just as much tuna on the years the sport fishing is good but no one complains about them then because everyone is catching fish.

    I'm fine with people having opposing views on sustainable fishing but I think that demonizing seiners because the tuna aren't interested in biting our baits is the wrong way to go about it. This being California, our tree hugging ruling class would be more than happy to eliminate all types of fishing so be careful where you point fingers because there are a lot of fingers already pointing at us.
     
  13. get some

    get some So Cal Editor BD Writer

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    Not standing up for the seiners but I researched this for an article. The total yearly landings of bluefin tuna by sport boats is significantly higher than the total yearly landings by US flagged seiners. If I remember correctly sport boats (not including private boats) make up 70% of total landings. Add in all the private boaters and it's probably closer to 90%. That's why the sport caught limit was decreased to two. Seiners also had their quota cut but it was done in such a manner to make it not a financially viable fishing option rather than a closure.
     
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  14. karlk1125

    karlk1125 Well-Known "Member"

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    I've been known to be wrong once or twice before ;) I know the seiners out of Mazatlan that wrap the tres maria's a few times a year catch as much on a single trip as the commercial panga fleet catches there in 10 years.
     
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  15. get some

    get some So Cal Editor BD Writer

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    It's a whole different ball game south of the border. The good news is that it sounds like the Mexican government is starting to tighten things up a bit as well.
     
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  16. Azarkon

    Azarkon I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    I don't think this is about sustainable fishing as much as it's about the frustration recreational guys are feeling this year at not getting their share. What seiners do in US waters is sustainable; at the very minimum I know California environmentalists would be all over them, had that not been the case. But when seiners are scoring huge wraps and recreational guys are left holding their rods, it feels bad, and an argument could be made that by reducing the volume of fish in local waters, seiners do have an effect on their willingness to bite.

    The question is, what can be done? If, as you say, quotas are already so low that seiners barely have an effect on the volume of fish, then there's nothing to be done - recreational guys just have to deal with it and hope there's a window before the fish leave in the fall. But, should it be the case that quotas are generous enough that seiners have a large effect on the population of fish and their willingness to bite, then it's possible that they need to be made more adaptive to recreational needs.

    Generally speaking, I think the way going forward should neither be to demonize commercial fishermen, nor hold them up on a pedestal, as though their needs are infinitely more important than ours. Recreational guys are the customers of a huge commercial industry themselves, and that industry, too, deserves to survive. Commercial and recreational interests should be held in balance.
     
  17. get some

    get some So Cal Editor BD Writer

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    I'm friends with guys on both sides of the industry and tend to stay up to date on regulations and other developments. Quotas are small for bluefin tuna. With yellowfin tuna boats can bring in more but the price paid per pound is pretty low by the time fish make it to US waters. Commercial fishing is an international business with boats from multiple countries targeting the same species and selling those fish to other countries. Since commercially caught fish price is based on supply versus demand, you need to consider that once the yellowfin makes it's way into US waters, the mexican seiners have been on it for months and the market is probably flooded which drives down the price.
    Now, consider the US seiners and the markets they fish for. Squid, which is the most valuable commercial catch in California, was going for $1,000 a ton the last I heard. I don't know what the current price on yellowfin is but I'd be surprised if it was over $300 a ton. So, a seiner that holds 50 tons could potentially make $50,000 a night fishing squid while that same boat could fish tuna for several days to make $15,000. Also, the markets have a finite amount of fish that they can process in any given day, so if there's squid to be caught the boat waiting to offload the lower value tuna is going to be waiting until the big money is done being made.
    If the sardine fishery wasn't closed this year the boats fishing tuna would likely be doing that instead as they are easier to catch and thus more profitable.
    Just my two cents...
     
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  18. Hardcor

    Hardcor Hardcore

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    Why is there no bait ? The Purse seine fleet netted it all. There used to be hundreds of Sardine and Anchovy factories from San Fran to Mexico and they are all gone due to Purse seine fleet. It add up over the years. I remember the first one to come into San Pedro. I'm old enough to have seen what has happened in our local waters the last sixty years. Don't try and sell us old guy's a bunch of crap.
    PS BD writer sticking up for the commercial guy's again.
     
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  19. Azarkon

    Azarkon I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    From what I've heard about the squid boats, they're a hard fishery to buy into.
     
  20. get some

    get some So Cal Editor BD Writer

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    One more thing. Commercial fishermen are much more coordinated in their efforts to maintain their ability to continue to do business. While sport fishing is a bigger industry it's so diverse that there's no real coordination. With commercial fishing its a small group of businesses that get together and pool their money to hire legal representation and lobbyists to fight for them in our state capitol and with the National Fisheries Service. If sport fishing interests want balance, they'll need to step up and spend the money the commercial industry is doing but no one cares enough to do it. That was proven by our inability to fight the MLPA effectively.
     
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