Star drag with best cranking power

May 8, 2020
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Bro, do you even physics?
Okay I don’t mind seeing people take heat but clearly you’re lost on physics. Physics isn’t just levers and pulleys and torque, but also angles. In this case you’re not realizing that the lighter frame Torium flexes enough to actually mess up the perfect angles (the pinion and main gear basically no longer line up at 180 degrees) that deliver power most efficiently.

There is a huge difference in the Torium vs Trinidad. The Trinidad has like what, 6 extra bearings with 3 of them being additional pinion and main gear support bearings to force everything to a perfect 180 degree angle and 90 degree corners. Also the reason why said bearings need to be replaced, they take quite a bit of torque.

My Torque SD vs Fathom SDs do that as well, it’s especially noticeable in the 30 size: The torque pulls way harder, and it doesn’t have the extra drag washer of the Fathom or anything like that, it’s due to the reel not flexing.
 
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benwah22

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The most powerful star drag reel I've ever fished is the 2020 Shimano Ocea Jigger 4000 in power gear. There's really not even a comparison with anything else when talking star drag. It's a very impressive piece of machinery. At a bare minimum you owe it to yourself to check one out in person if possible.
 
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madmanmarz

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The most powerful star drag reel I've ever fished is the 2020 Shimano Ocea Jigger 4000 in power gear. There's really not even a comparison with anything else when talking star drag. It's a very impressive piece of machinery. At a bare minimum you owe it to yourself to check one out in person if possible.
Right now I’m considering the Trinidad 40, daiwa 30t, The new Torium 40, and maybe Fathom 25 2spd. Just hoping I don’t end up too big. The jigger seems like the best option for sure but I can’t quite swallow the price.
 
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May 8, 2020
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Right now I’m considering the Trinidad 40, daiwa 30t, The new Torium 40, and maybe Fathom 25 2spd. Just hoping I don’t end up too big. The jigger seems like the best option for sure but I can’t quite swallow the price.
Dude looking at the reels you listed, get a Saltiga in the power gear. It is a winch of a reel, way more torque then the 16NA-30A size of a Trinidad.
 
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RWP

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Okay I don’t mind seeing people take heat but clearly you’re lost on physics. Physics isn’t just levers and pulleys and torque, but also angles. In this case you’re not realizing that the lighter frame Torium flexes enough to actually mess up the perfect angles (the pinion and main gear basically no longer line up at 180 degrees) that deliver power most efficiently.

There is a huge difference in the Torium vs Trinidad. The Trinidad has like what, 6 extra bearings with 3 of them being additional pinion and main gear support bearings to force everything to a perfect 180 degree angle and 90 degree corners. Also the reason why said bearings need to be replaced, they take quite a bit of torque.

My Torque SD vs Fathom SDs do that as well, it’s especially noticeable in the 30 size: The torque pulls way harder, and it doesn’t have the extra drag washer of the Fathom or anything like that, it’s due to the reel not flexing.
What do you consider a huge difference?

As far as mechanical inefficiencies go, 5% would be astronomical. I don't think the reel would actually function if the frame were flexing enough to allow for that.

3% could be huge. Less than 1% is probably more realistic................

Either way, not enough to be noticed while fishing.
 
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F.I.S.H.Y

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  • Sep 27, 2019
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    What do you consider a huge difference?

    As far as mechanical inefficiencies go, 5% would be astronomical. I don't think the reel would actually function if the frame were flexing enough to allow for that.

    3% could be huge. Less than 1% is probably more realistic................

    Either way, not enough to be noticed while fishing.
    Really? I've fished both of them and I can tell you the trinidad feels much much better. Even just winding in jigs, it's effortless. The torium really struggles cranking anything 5lbs or over for mine.
    The trinidad is packed with bearings, it's got the x ship feature too which is 2 bearings supporting the pinion gear which is probably what makes it as smooth as it is. It's got a bearing right over the AR bearing which makes it smoother under pressure and improves torque a bit too. When I opened mine up I packed all of them with grease, not a problem.

    Let me ask you this... Do you have both of these reels? Have you fished them both? I'm pretty sure anyone with these reels could pretty easily tell the difference...
     

    madmanmarz

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    Dude looking at the reels you listed, get a Saltiga in the power gear. It is a winch of a reel, way more torque then the 16NA-30A size of a Trinidad.
    you talkin about the saltiga z30 or the saltist 30t?

    Also a lot of these reels are hard to find, the Torium 40hga has some really nice specs, 5:1 w 46” retrieve. Similar to Trinidad 40 w/ slightly taller gear. It has 1 more bearing than the smaller Torium reels and a double pawl AR. Too bad no reviews out there.

    I think ima get one and then try and find a 30t or similar and sell a couple reels. I don’t kite fish so I don’t need high speed reels and big spinners do fine for live bait.
     
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    F.I.S.H.Y

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    you talkin about the saltiga z30 or the saltist 30t?

    Also a lot of these reels are hard to find, the Torium 40hga has some really nice specs, 4.9:1 w 44” retrieve. It has 1 more bearing than the smaller reels and a double pawl AR. Too bad no reviews out there.
    The torium 40 is a much much larger reel, looks similarly sized to a tern 600. What do you wanna use it for? Surface iron work, I would get a Daiwa saltiga 40h. I love my Trinidad but overall the saltiga has better machining quality and anodizing. The Shimano anodizing on there talica and Trinidad sucks, they call it EI and it's really just a cheap replacement to save money. If not the saltiga the fathom 25n is a really nice reel too.
     
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    May 8, 2020
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    What do you consider a huge difference?

    As far as mechanical inefficiencies go, 5% would be astronomical. I don't think the reel would actually function if the frame were flexing enough to allow for that.

    3% could be huge. Less than 1% is probably more realistic................

    Either way, not enough to be noticed while fishing.
    Fucking big. It goes from me pumping me winding a yellowtail to just grinding it in while holding my rod. Fishing both reels with 15-18ish of drag. Literally. So yes, a MASSIVE difference.

    I can bend a Fathom 30 with my bare hands in a way that will literally prevent free spool. I can’t do it with my Torque 30 at all.
     

    madmanmarz

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    The torium 40 is a much much larger reel, looks similarly sized to a tern 600. What do you wanna use it for? Surface iron work, I would get a Daiwa saltiga 40h. I love my Trinidad but overall the saltiga has better machining quality and anodizing. The Shimano anodizing on there talica and Trinidad sucks, they call it EI and it's really just a cheap replacement to save money. If not the saltiga the fathom 25n is a really nice reel too.
    SE Fl. I’m switching up my bottom and jigging setups. My current “light jigging setup” is a penn warfare 20n w 50lb braid on an ugly stick or spj rod depending. Im realizing here that a spj rod is not as versatile. Mainly I’m trying to beat the sharks and cudas out of the wrecks before my arm gives out. I know a 40 size seems like overkill but I usually only drift a wreck for 5-15 mins. I have to be prepared for whatever the conditions are so sometimes I have to bring 15-20 rods.

    I may end up trolling, running and gunning, high speed trolling, deep dropping, reef fishing or wreck fishing depending on conditions, current, and how bad the sargassum is. Some days the sharks are all over you and other days they aren’t and I can jig more.

    Anyway I’m gonna get the Torium 40 for now, if it ends up too big for jigging it’ll be my new grouper/bottom setup while I find something in a 30 size.

    I was considering the fathom 2 25n star drag power gear but specs wise it’s not much of a difference over the warfare.
     
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    May 8, 2020
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    The War20n is 5:1 the Torium and Cortez are 6:1. Im thinking something super smooth, a little larger & around 5:1 with a long handle will fit the bill.

    Around 100-150’ the Warfare does fine but 200+ esp with current makes it really hard to beat the toothy critters.
    Looking at what you originally posted again, I think a 40HGA is actually up your ball park. It’s got bigger gears and a bigger spool too, and it’s lower gear ratio. It’s has a ton of beef. After that Id fish a saltiga 35 .. maybe a 25N LD2 after that. In San Diego we don’t have the need to be able to overpower sharks and groupers.
    SE Fl. I’m switching up my bottom and jigging setups. My current “light jigging setup” is a penn warfare 20n w 50lb braid on an ugly stick or spj rod depending. Im realizing here that a spj rod is not as versatile. Mainly I’m trying to beat the sharks and cudas out of the wrecks before my arm gives out. I know a 40 size seems like overkill but I usually only drift a wreck for 5-15 mins. I have to be prepared for whatever the conditions are so sometimes I have to bring 15-20 rods.

    I may end up trolling, running and gunning, high speed trolling, deep dropping, reef fishing or wreck fishing depending on conditions, current, and how bad the sargassum is. Some days the sharks are all over you and other days they aren’t and I can jig more.

    Anyway I’m gonna get the Torium 40 for now, if it ends up too big for jigging it’ll be my new grouper/bottom setup while I find something in a 30 size.

    I was considering the fathom 2 25n star drag power gear but specs wise it’s not much of a difference over the warfare.
    The 25N SD pulls way harder man, if that’s what you’re looking for in terms of smaller package. If it’s just a beefy reel you’re after the 40 HGA, 113H are all fine reels. The 40 is going to be the hardest pulling package for sure though.
     
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    F.I.S.H.Y

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  • Sep 27, 2019
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    SE Fl. I’m switching up my bottom and jigging setups. My current “light jigging setup” is a penn warfare 20n w 50lb braid on an ugly stick or spj rod depending. Im realizing here that a spj rod is not as versatile. Mainly I’m trying to beat the sharks and cudas out of the wrecks before my arm gives out. I know a 40 size seems like overkill but I usually only drift a wreck for 5-15 mins. I have to be prepared for whatever the conditions are so sometimes I have to bring 15-20 rods.

    I may end up trolling, running and gunning, high speed trolling, deep dropping, reef fishing or wreck fishing depending on conditions, current, and how bad the sargassum is. Some days the sharks are all over you and other days they aren’t and I can jig more.

    Anyway I’m gonna get the Torium 40 for now, if it ends up too big for jigging it’ll be my new grouper/bottom setup while I find something in a 30 size.

    I was considering the fathom 2 25n star drag power gear but specs wise it’s not much of a difference over the warfare.
    Dude for jigging get a saltiga. I use a 15h since I only fish in like 100-400ft but if you want something for more get a 35n, both are sick reels.
     
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    madmanmarz

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    Looking at what you originally posted again, I think a 40HGA is actually up your ball park. It’s got bigger gears and a bigger spool too, and it’s lower gear ratio. It’s has a ton of beef. After that Id fish a saltiga 35 .. maybe a 25N LD2 after that. In San Diego we don’t have the need to be able to overpower sharks and groupers.

    The 25N SD pulls way harder man, if that’s what you’re looking for in terms of smaller package. If it’s just a beefy reel you’re after the 40 HGA, 113H are all fine reels. The 40 is going to be the hardest pulling package for sure though.
    Cool I’ll probably end up with 2-3 setups then. If the 25n is much better then I’ll put that or similar on the spj rod but def getting the 40 for general purpose. Not gonna lie tho on a budget that 20n is fantastic if you didn’t have to crank for your life every time lol.
     
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    May 8, 2020
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    Cool I’ll probably end up with 2-3 setups then. If the 25n is much better then I’ll put that or similar on the spj rod but def getting the 40 for general purpose. Not gonna lie tho on a budget that 20n is fantastic if you didn’t have to crank for your life every time lol.
    Many west coast anglers simply believe they need the latest and greatest. They are nice for sure, but a ton of budget friendly option for half days and full days. Don’t need much to catch a cods or schoolie tuna tbh.
     
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    tunanorth

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    It should be noted that the OP's reel is an "entry level" model, about $99 retail, and really should not be compared to the $250-$500 reels being discussed.
    ALL of them will have better cranking power regardless of gear ratio.
    Entry level reels by nature have a fair amount of "free play" in the gear train, and most [including the Warfare series] are also graphite or even plastic framed, with the resultant frame-flex resulting in even more loss of torque.
    Reading the OP's needs, he will experience a substantial power increase that should easily do what he needs by just going "steps" up in the PENN lineup to the Fathom FTHII25NSDP.
    The metal frame, stainless ball-bearings to keep the gears aligned, and of course the lower gear ratio should do everything he needs.
     
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    madmanmarz

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    I’ve decided to keep an eye out for a 25nsdp, ocea, Torium, Trinidad, saltist, saltiga 30t etc but for my main rig ima get an accurate tern 500, 500n, 600, or 600n. It’s a shame there aren’t more star drags with a tall spool and a ratio around 5:1 that aren’t huge and heavy.
     

    chilidip

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    If you can find one, get the JDM Saltiga 35N SJ in 5:1. I highly doubt you’ll find a star drag with more cranking power. Check eBay.
     
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    madmanmarz

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    So I wanted to add that I scored an old OJ 2000p for a good price. Unfortunately I’m not sure these will make great live/dead bait reels as there is no clicker except on newer models.

    I was thinking and reading more about cranking power and in reality you are limited by the size of the reel and the inches per turn. If the spool gets taller you get more retrieve but cranking is harder. If ratio goes up same thing.

    The one thing I can think about that would invariably always increase cranking power would be a longer handle. Of course that would slow down your retrieve rate (not inches per turn but inches per second). I guess it’s all a trade off really as the only way to really win is to go bigger, but then there’s more fatigue and less feel.

    🤷‍♂️
     
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