Star drag with best cranking power

madmanmarz

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I’m fishing in SE FL and usually jigging the wrecks, but beating the barracudas and sharks is always an issue.

Currently I’m using a Penn Warfare 20n 5:1 ratio and I’m looking for some more cranking power to get the fish up fast. I prefer star drag. Would the Fathom ii 25nsdp or Torium 16PG be a large improvement? Any other suggestions (reel handle maybe?) I already find my Warfare to have more cranking power than my older Torium and another Okuma Cortez (both have higher ratios).
 
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gettingbentwithbo

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Accurate Tern is 6:1 and star drag. Really nice reels. Remember the higher the gear ratio the bigger the fish are the harder it is to turn the handle. I find 6:1 to be the sweet spot. I have some bait casters in 7:1 that I will use for smaller fish if I am horsing them out of kelp/structure.
 
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madmanmarz

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Accurate Tern is 6:1 and star drag. Really nice reels. Remember the higher the gear ratio the bigger the fish are the harder it is to turn the handle. I find 6:1 to be the sweet spot. I have some bait casters in 7:1 that I will use for smaller fish if I am horsing them out of kelp/structure.
The War20n is 5:1 the Torium and Cortez are 6:1. Im thinking something super smooth, a little larger & around 5:1 with a long handle will fit the bill.

Around 100-150’ the Warfare does fine but 200+ esp with current makes it really hard to beat the toothy critters.
 
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RWP

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Gear ratio on its own is irrelevant. Spool size matters.

Do you want more cranking power or more line pick up?

If you need a faster reel, look at the ipt, not the ratio. A 4.6:1 tranx 500 has the same line pick up as a 5.8:1 tranx 400 and a 7.2:1 tranx 200.

Obviously the 500 has much more power.

Also, a reel with a wider spool will pick up more line than a narrower one because there will be more line left on the spool at the same depth.
 

Pacific Jigger

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What you’re describing exists, single speed jigging reels fit this perfectly.
Gear ratios are typically 4-4.5:1. Don’t just consider gear ratio, look at the inches per crank also.
Two reels that may fit your purposes, depending on your taste in reels, are the Penn US Senator 113N and the Shimano Ocea Jigger 4000P. The Shimano is a very smooth reel and is capable of pulling stumps in the right hands. You’ll be able to hand the Penn US Senator down to your grandkids and it’ll probably still work perfectly.
 
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Pitchinwedge

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    Spool height and handle length are self explanatory, but what do IPT and gear ratio actually mean? Will be interesting to see what people have to say.

    OP, try to consider how all of the above mentioned factors affect a reel's cranking power. Following thread as I'm curious which products end up on the leaderboard.
     
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    madmanmarz

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    What you’re describing exists, single speed jigging reels fit this perfectly.
    Gear ratios are typically 4-4.5:1. Don’t just consider gear ratio, look at the inches per crank also.
    Two reels that may fit your purposes, depending on your taste in reels, are the Penn US Senator 113N and the Shimano Ocea Jigger 4000P. The Shimano is a very smooth reel and is capable of pulling stumps in the right hands. You’ll be able to hand the Penn US Senator down to your grandkids and it’ll probably still work perfectly.
    I guess I should’ve specified that I sometimes get fatigued towards the end and it feels like a lower ratio/more cranking power should help. I have considered those two, hopefully they are not overly large as I usually use the same setup with a light conventional jig rod for its versatility (casting, high speed, and flutter jigs).

    I’m also considering having a LH and RH setup to switch and reduce fatigue.
     
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    Pacific Jigger

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    IPT- Inches per turn
    The amount of line, in inches, that is taken in by one full turn of the reel handle.

    Gear Ratio
    The number of times the spool or rotor of a reel revolves for every full turn of the handle.
     
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    RWP

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    I guess I should’ve specified that I sometimes get fatigued towards the end and it feels like a lower ratio/more cranking power should help. I have considered those two, hopefully they are not overly large as I usually use the same setup with a light conventional jig rod for its versatility (casting, high speed, and flutter jigs).

    I’m also considering having a LH and RH setup to switch and reduce fatigue.
    It sounds like you need a 2 speed.
     
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    Pacific Jigger

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    They are bigger reels, but they have to be to do what you're asking of them. It sounds like you really need two different reels. If you're willing to consider lever drags, your options increase exponentially. You could take a close look at the Shimano Ocea Jigger 2000P, it may be what you're after.
     
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    I think that the most important ratio is the ratio of the distance your hand sweeps in a crank to the amount of line cranked in. I put together a spread sheet of the various reels that I have owned and did measurements of the spool volume and the handle length, in addition to the gear ratio. From there the amount of line per crank at full volume can get calculated, and the distance the hand sweeps with the handle can also get calculated and a ratio of the two will give you the amount of line reeled in per unit your handle moves. This ratio will change as line is taken off the reel, and will change more for a narrow reel as opposed to a wider reel.

    In the numbers that I looked at the ratio for the Penn 40NLD2 was something like 2.1 for the high gear, and 1.0 for the low gear. For the Penn Baja Special, the ratio was 2.5 for the handle in the short position, and 1.9 in the long position. Of the reels that I measured, one old Diawa SST40 with the 4.9 gears had a ratio of 2.0 with the handle in the short position, and 1.6 with the handle in the long position, which is probably the most winch I have in any of the star drags I own. The progear v30 was close with 2.3 and 1.7 with the different handle settings.

    Not sure how this compares to your reel as I don't have one of those. In most cases the 2 speeds are going to give you more of a winch due to the low gear, but perhaps there is a star drag that can get you somewhere close enough for you to succeed. For a star drag you'll probably want to look for a low gear, long handle, and a wide spool to get the most winch out of it.
     
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    madmanmarz

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    Thanks for all the replies, I’ll give them all some thought.
    I wish I could have 3 or 4 jigging setups but with all the other rods I only have so much room. Looking like bigger or 2spd is the only way forward. Already I’ve been using one of my 50-2sp bent butts for live bait on the wrecks. If the sharks weren’t so bad the little reels would be fine!
     
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    RWP

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    Thanks for all the replies, I’ll give them all some thought.
    I wish I could have 3 or 4 jigging setups but with all the other rods I only have so much room. Looking like bigger or 2spd is the only way forward. Already I’ve been using one of my 50-2sp bent butts for live bait on the wrecks. If the sharks weren’t so bad the little reels would be fine!
    Check out the speedmaster ii, I just picked one up, pretty impressive for the price.
     
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    F.I.S.H.Y

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    My Trini 20a has way more cranking power than my torium 20hg. My fathom star drags have more cranking power than the torium too.

    My saltiga and Trini have the most though, fathom is similar.
     

    F.I.S.H.Y

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    I haven't taken it apart yet, but for $250 I'm surprised they didn't use more plastic, honestly.
    One problem shimano has is using no grease so if you take it apart be sure to coat everything. They only put it on the gears.

    Screenshot_20210622-122841.jpg

    Also relube the bearings, they use super thin oils. Pack everything else with grease. That would make a fine reel
     

    Pitchinwedge

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    Some interesting comments you've made there FISHY. I pretty much have to disagree with all of them. I also don't think your pics fairly represent the quality and capability of the TAC/SPM/TN/TOR reels. Not being a fanboy... just sharing facts to clearing up some misinformation.

    The Trini and Tor have the same gearing, same IPT, similar handle, and nearly identical spool size. Hence, they have the same cranking power.

    1624488151035.png

    1624488165041.png


    The spool bearings I've serviced were all shielded and packed in lube, not thin oils. If you crack open a new reel, you will find all internal mechanicals are well greased, but grease isn't haphazardly smeared all over the place. The grease is a relatively clear synthetic grease, not the blue stuff.

    1624488348451.png
     
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    RWP

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    Some interesting comments you've made there FISHY. I pretty much have to disagree with all of them. I also don't think your pics fairly represent the quality and capability of the TAC/SPM/TN/TOR reels. Not being a fanboy... just sharing facts to clearing up some misinformation.

    The Trini and Tor have the same gearing, same IPT, similar handle, and nearly identical spool size. Hence, they have the same cranking power.

    View attachment 1292592
    View attachment 1292593

    The spool bearings I've serviced were all shielded and packed in lube, not thin oils. If you crack open a new reel, you will find all internal mechanicals are well greased, but grease isn't haphazardly smeared all over the place. The grease is a relatively clear synthetic grease, not the blue stuff.

    View attachment 1292594
    This has been my experience as well, but I haven't opened the speedmaster yet.
     

    Pitchinwedge

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    Maybe. They seem interesting so far. Just wish they didn't use so much plastic.

    Almost forgot... what are the plastic parts that you're referring to?

    This has been my experience as well, but I haven't opened the speedmaster yet.

    I have opened both of my Speedmasters. They look exactly like the pic above and yes, they work amazingly well. Will hold off on any accolades since that's not the point I was getting at.
     
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    F.I.S.H.Y

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    Almost forgot... what are the plastic parts that you're referring to?
    im refering to the lever mostly, there is some on the 2 speed mechanisim too but that probably wont affect much. ive had problems with plastic levers banging against things and breaking before, not sure how those are going to hold up on the speedmaster being a bit larger. Just don't see why they couldn't put a aluminum one when penn could, and even daiwa could on there saltist lds. Kind of similar with there saragosas and even twinpowers, they have plastic side plates. probably a marketing stratagy for there talicas and stellas.

    As for oil, have you ever tried the shimano oil??? that stuff is lighter and thinner than okumas factory oil in the makaira box, and way way thinner than ReelX and SpeedX. It spins really good but it is not efficient against salt.
    The Trini and Tor have the same gearing, same IPT, similar handle, and nearly identical spool size. Hence, they have the same cranking power.
    ive put them side by side, put them under the same pressure. My trini has more cranking power. Ive opened them both up and the trini has a larger main gear with larger teeth than my torium. The toriums teeth are kind of similar to the tranx, they are smaller and shorter.
     
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    RWP

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    ive put them side by side, put them under the same pressure. My trini has more cranking power. Ive opened them both up and the trini has a larger main gear with larger teeth than my torium. The toriums teeth are kind of similar to the tranx, they are smaller and shorter.

    None of that matters when you're talking about cranking power.