Spawning Sand Bass

makairaa

I've posted enough I should edit this section
May 1, 2005
4,098
3,067
113
Tustin CA
Name
Philip Hunkins
Boat
17 starcraft
Well Next time The Squid Show Up on
are Coast, Go Out And See What Happens
when their around, they are Cannibals
it will change Your Mind.
I did go out when they were around. I knew guys who were catching them off prince of wales island alaska one year. And yet the only thing they apparently ate was sand bass. I don't fear the boogie squid. Its just easier to blame them.
 

jer dog

Fishing is life
Jun 22, 2006
7,358
3,650
113
Garden Grove
Name
Gerry
Boat
One that floats
I did go out when they were around. I knew guys who were catching them off prince of wales island alaska one year. And yet the only thing they apparently ate was sand bass. I don't fear the boogie squid. Its just easier to blame them.
when they were around, we did a Rock Trip Out Of Ensenada
we could Not Get Away From Them, of threw them
and what Sucked Was Hooking One On A Rock Gagnon At 350 Feet ,
 

makairaa

I've posted enough I should edit this section
May 1, 2005
4,098
3,067
113
Tustin CA
Name
Philip Hunkins
Boat
17 starcraft
when they were around, we did a Rock Trip Out Of Ensenada
we could Not Get Away From Them, of threw them
and what Sucked Was Hooking One On A Rock Gagnon At 350 Feet ,
That does suck, but they did not decimate the rockfish in those areas. So why would they decimate literally millions of sand bass?
 

Croaker.Stroker

Old White Guy
Nov 28, 2015
1,186
917
113
Tustin
Name
Croaker
Boat
Arima Sea Pacer
I hope nobody is eating them in our area.

The term “Turd Rollers” is putting it lightly.

“In the so-called red zone that reaches from Santa Monica to Seal Beach, four fish besides the white croaker — barracuda, topsmelt, black croaker and barred sand bass — are now considered so contaminated with the long-banned pesticide DDT, PCBs and mercury that they too are unsafe to eat. Scientists say the expanded list isn't a sign that pollution has worsened, but rather an indication that they better understand the extent of the contamination.”
 

Azarkon

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Aug 28, 2015
1,682
1,280
113
35
California
Name
Joe
Boat
N/A
At the same time the HB flats fishing was going off, the sand bass spawners were doing the same thing up in the Hermosa Beach/Redondo wrecks and flats (I lived there at the time), also I recall the same stuff going on at several other places down south as well such as San O, IB flats, etc. They got hit probably hardest at HB, but they “disappeared” from everywhere at the same time. I always believed we did ourselves no favors, but that over fishing wasn’t the primary factor. Other theories have come out about it, but I don’t think anything has been proven. I always thought that the humbolts played a big factor, but blaming an animal for environmental wreckage is a hard sell in this state. If you recall, those things were so prolific for a while that there were several regular scheduled “squid only” trips running for years in place of the twilights that were catching the bass before. Now that those things haven’t been around for a while maybe that’s building the bass spawn back up?
You want an animal to blame, it's either going to be humans, or sea lions. Blaming the squid is strange to me, because while there is a correlation between the big squid and the sand bass drop off, the bigger correlation there is between ocean temperature and both. You only see the big squid during cold water years, and those years are known to be a disaster for bass.

The cold water years probably decimated the bass spawn - I think there was a study from fish and game about it, and without much of a surviving generation, the remaining adults couldn't handle the pressure and collapsed because there was no one to replace them. That's how this usually works. Human pressure finishes what nature starts. Just because a species can handle a high amount of pressure when the condition is right, doesn't indicate it can handle the same amount of pressure when the condition is wrong. That's why management needs to become more intelligent and adaptive.

That said, I wonder how much of the old days were due to low sea lion populations. Those guys eat close to 40 pounds of fish a day. With 300,000 of them around, do the math and you'll find their take is much more significant than the sport boat fleet. I don't know what else changed in California over the years, but there's been a definite drop off in fish populations correlated with the rise in sea lion populations.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Omarkayak

Brass_Slacks

Well-Known "Member"
Oct 30, 2014
425
408
63
36
Name
Hank
Boat
Public
Probably more to do with water temps than anything.
Party boats / private boat pressure probably didn’t help.
Humboldts probably did some damage too.

No single boogie man to point a finger at and blame.
 
  • Like
Reactions: makairaa

Brass_Slacks

Well-Known "Member"
Oct 30, 2014
425
408
63
36
Name
Hank
Boat
Public
It would help if the biologists had any clue where the migratory schools of sand bass lived during the other 8 to 9 months of the year.
I’d love to see a sand bass gps tagging study.

Watch it turn out they all go out to 1500ft and eat up worms all winter.
 
  • Like
Reactions: makairaa

Azarkon

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Aug 28, 2015
1,682
1,280
113
35
California
Name
Joe
Boat
N/A
Found the article:

https://nrm.dfg.ca.gov/FileHandler.ashx?DocumentID=90973

This was a counter argument released by fish and game in reaction to that other article that said sport and private boats were responsible for the bass collapse.

A few comments from the article seem to verify what people are saying here, in terms of climate being responsible:

To determine if the declines in CPUE occurred in isolated areas (e.g., hot spots) or throughout the catch range, we plotted the percent change in average CPUE by fishingblock between the periods with higher (2000–2004) and lower (2005–2012) catch rates.We used a graduated color scheme to plot the percent change in CPUE using the following categories: declines greater than 50%, 49% to 10%, or 9% to 0%; increases of 1% to 10%or greater than 10%. Localized depletion of stocks between the two catch periods was not evident with barred sand bass or kelp bass. For example, CPUE between the two catch periods declined throughout the catch range, and not only at isolated locations (i.e., fishing hot spots or spawning locations). Known barred sand bass spawning locations off Ventura, Santa Monica, Huntington Beach, San Onofre, and Silver Strand all showed declines similar to declines in other locations throughout the SCB (Figure 4a). Of blocks where barred sand bass was caught, most showed declines in CPUE of greater than 50% (Figure 4a) and occurred throughout southern California (Figure 4a), indicating an overall decrease in barred sand bass availability. Percent increases in barred sand bass CPUE occurred in a few blocks throughout the SCB, including off Silver Strand, San Clemente Island, Santa Cruz Island, and Carpinteria. Most blocks where kelp bass were caught showed declines ranging between 10% and 49% (Figure 4b); these blocks also occurred throughout southern California. Five of eight blocks showing declines greater than 50% occurred in the higher latitude fishing blocks off Ventura and Santa Barbara. Increases in kelp bass CPUE occurred off Encinitas,and San Clemente, Santa Catalina, Santa Rosa, and San Miguel islands.
Bass collapse was evident all across southern California, not just in areas with heavy pressure.

Trends in barred sand bass and kelp bass fishery recruitment strength showed significant, positive correlations with trends in Paralabrax larval abundance and coastal SSTs (Table 4). Bass fishery recruitment was most positively correlated with Paralabrax larval abundance and with coastal SSTs at five-year lags (Table 4). Barred sand bass fishery recruitment was negatively correlated with kelp canopy coverage at a six-year lag, and kelp bass fishery recruitment showed a very strong negative correlation with kelp canopy coverage at a five-year lag (Table 4).
Bass survival depends on warm water.

Interestingly, barred sand bass and kelp bass catches continued to rank among
the top five species caught in southern California in recent years despite decreases in bass availability and fishing effort. This suggests an overall decline in the availability of nearshore sport fishes in the region. In fact, the total estimated southern California recreational catch declined by 44% between 2004 and 2012 (RecFIN2013). Coastal power plant entrapment data also indicated region-wide declines in southern California’s nearshore fishes, including non-game fishes, since the 1970s (Miller and McGowen 2013). The relative degree of anthropogenic and oceanographic influence on this trend for exploited fishes likely depends on the fishery. However, our findings on the saltwater basses do not substantiate the claim of bass fishery collapse due to overfishing (Erisman et al. 2011). Although there is little doubt
that exploitation partly contributed to decreases in saltwater bass availability, we found no evidence of growth overfishing and no evidence of serial depletion (e.g., localized depletion due to fishing), the common trademarks of under-regulated hyperstable fisheries. Temporal trends in the catch distribution of barred sand bass and kelp bass indicated availability decreased over the entire catch range, rather than in isolated fishing areas.
All fish species declined between 2004 and 2012, as much as over 40%, including species not targeted by humans. Sea lions?
 

swami 805

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Mar 9, 2016
2,754
3,082
113
65
805
Name
Bill
Boat
sunk it
What do those things eat? Every time I caught some they were yaking up black crap. I always released them, just couldn’t get past that shit
Like most things in the ocean there’s natural boom and bust cycles. Add human impact, more sea lions squid and everything else in the mix and good bye sandbass. Once conditions return favoring sandbass survival they’ll be back. Those things are spread out from Santa Barbara down the coast off Baja. Pounding a few specific areas wouldn’t explain it unless they somehow migrate back to the same area they were born which could be why there not at HB. No telling really, hard to believe they’ll go extinct
 

Dave Hansen

Yoursaltwaterguide.com
Advertiser
May 26, 2007
1,901
1,784
113
Where ever fish need to be caught.
Name
Www.yoursaltwaterguide.com
Boat
YOUR BOAT. ANY WHERE, ANYTIME
1954 ,55, 56,57there where no sandbass in So cal...So please stop DONT help them close the fishery ....They took the bass from 10 to 5..The size from 12 to 14 please stop...lets see if you guys can just relax....Enough is enough...You want them to close everything?
JUST CALM DOWN...Its going to be OK....Its Cycles.......Put all your effort into the Real problem...SEALIONS.....
 

jer dog

Fishing is life
Jun 22, 2006
7,358
3,650
113
Garden Grove
Name
Gerry
Boat
One that floats
1954 ,55, 56,57there where no sandbass in So cal...So please stop DONT help them close the fishery ....They took the bass from 10 to 5..The size from 12 to 14 please stop...lets see if you guys can just relax....Enough is enough...You want them to close everything?
JUST CALM DOWN...Its going to be OK....Its Cycles.......Put all your effort into the Real problem...SEALIONS.....
:appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl::appl:
 

sickcat

Silverback
Aug 5, 2003
3,115
1,138
113
63
LA
Name
Kerry
Boat
Yellow spot
Blaming Humbolt for the decline in the Sand Bass cracks me up. Sure they ate some but my bet is that fishing the spawn hard (and that is what we fished - not a migration) during a natural downturn due to conditions is what caused the population decline. There is no scientist that will say that heavy fishing pressure on a spawning aggregation of fish is a good idea. As for Huntington flats rec anglers were pulling 10,000 fish or more out every day for weeks at a time. That kind of pressure would certainly put a dent in the next generation of SB.

As science with the sardine has shown us heavy fishing pressure during a natural population decline will drive a deeper decline and slow/delay the natural uptick in the population cycle.

We don't control the squid, sea lions or water temps. Law or no law if recs would not pound the spawning aggregations there would be more fish to catch.
 
  • Like
Reactions: plj46

UnBelievable

F.V. UNBELIEVABLE
Jul 19, 2013
288
387
63
Mission Bay San Diego Ca. USA
Name
Norm Campbell
Boat
UnBelievable
Well as a founding San Diego Board member of the CCA, we tried unsuccessfully to move the ground fish closure to the spawning season. January February closures makes little sense. During the spawn does make sense. If only I could get everyone here to join and use the good of the numbers to have the weight for the cause! Most would rather just sit at their keyboard and complain. Most don’t realize how close we just came to loosing sardines as a bait again. We as the CCA BOARD have even offered to pay you to join at the annual Dana Landing sign up. It’s beyond comprehension why we are the only group fighting to keep what we currently have as Fishermans rights and very few want to help for only 35.00 a year to be a member. Quite frankly about ready to give up. You then will see how long it takes for the enviro’s to eliminate sportfishing as we know it. Just sit there a on the couch or lazy boy and complain away...... the Seiners.....oh my 1 bluefin per year.....and next year none. You think that will never happen because there is too much money in sportfishing. There is way more for the other side against what you call fishing! So yes just sit there and have another Twinkie. I apologize for my rant in advance. Just so hard to keep up the fight with so many on the side just eating Twinkie’s.
 

mullet

Metal Fabricator
Jan 10, 2006
3,688
3,296
113
San Fernando Valley
Name
Mike
Boat
19"Gregor
The fish were taken under the current regs
I respectfully disagree .The majority of the biomass were taken before they changed the regs .It was 10 fish 12" or bigger. It is currently 5 fish 14" or bigger .