Some Crimp and New Hook Testing

Discussion in 'San Diego Long Range fishing Reports' started by JohnTFT, Sep 15, 2017.

  1. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

    Location:
    The "718"
    Name:
    John
    Boat:
    A big Steel One
    • Messages:
      (851)
    • Likes Received:
      (2,135)
    My good friend ATUNA has been doing some extensive testing on crimps and procedures.

    Here is one he did with awesome results on some MAKAI 130# Deception. Note the elongation of the line around the chafe gear. Take notice of the chafe gear and where its installed.

    Garry is a very innovative guy. The database, tool modifications and hook system he is developing requires a herculean effort.

    Tipping my hat to him.

     
  2. Let em eat 74

    Let em eat 74 Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Irvine
    Name:
    Kevin
    Boat:
    Whichever1is leaving
    • Messages:
      (543)
    • Likes Received:
      (798)
    Wow that hook looked like it opened up quite a bit in that pull as well. Thanks for posting
     
  3. pacificscout

    pacificscout Hey! You got any frozen ice?

    Location:
    fullerton
    Name:
    Wally
    Boat:
    16ft Scout EMBUSTERO
    • Messages:
      (1,544)
    • Likes Received:
      (932)
    very impressive. thanks
     
  4. Texlee

    Texlee Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Vernon, Texas, USA
    Name:
    Alben Lee
    Boat:
    Excel
    • Messages:
      (868)
    • Likes Received:
      (296)
    VERY impressive. Thanks for sharing. Tex
     
  5. stephen campbell

    stephen campbell aka "Soup"

    Location:
    oro valley az
    Name:
    Stephen Campbell
    Boat:
    S/V Bluechablis Valiant 40
    • Messages:
      (286)
    • Likes Received:
      (444)
    Was that hook heated to install an after market grommet?
     
    Rodless_Jim and JohnTFT like this.
  6. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

    Location:
    The "718"
    Name:
    John
    Boat:
    A big Steel One
    • Messages:
      (851)
    • Likes Received:
      (2,135)
    You get the Gold Star tonight Stephen!!
     
    stephen campbell likes this.
  7. DC61

    DC61 Well-Known "Member"

    Location:
    Dana Point
    Name:
    Paul L.
    Boat:
    33’ Blackfin
    • Messages:
      (836)
    • Likes Received:
      (1,069)
    Wow, that's amazing!
     
  8. Fishybuzz

    Fishybuzz fishybuzz

    Location:
    Tucson
    Name:
    David Tang
    Boat:
    Intrepid
    • Messages:
      (8,129)
    • Likes Received:
      (7,020)
    The grommet helps prevent crotch breaks....a very common point of failure with crimped hooks.

    Very impressive....
     
    Rodless_Jim, JohnTFT and Bill W like this.
  9. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

    Location:
    Chino Hills, Ca.
    Name:
    Bill Walsh
    Boat:
    Red Rooster
    • Messages:
      (4,528)
    • Likes Received:
      (4,964)
    A lot better than a ring...
     
    Rodless_Jim and JohnTFT like this.
  10. stephen campbell

    stephen campbell aka "Soup"

    Location:
    oro valley az
    Name:
    Stephen Campbell
    Boat:
    S/V Bluechablis Valiant 40
    • Messages:
      (286)
    • Likes Received:
      (444)
    Granted the grommet is way cool, my concern is the alteration of the steel in the hook as manufactured, by a DUI installation of the grommet. I also am willing to accept the "how strong is strong enough" argument. also that this is presented as preliminary testing, just an observation on the hook.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
    dh515 likes this.
  11. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

    Location:
    The "718"
    Name:
    John
    Boat:
    A big Steel One
    • Messages:
      (851)
    • Likes Received:
      (2,135)
    I have fished these hooks for a few years. Garry for even longer than that. I cant tell you how many cows we have caught on them but its quite a few.

    The hooks are being used this year in the GBFT fishery off of New England with good success as well. They are really strong.

    But! Your point is well taken. Eventually a deal will be made with one hook manufacturer to install the grommet prior to turning the eye on the hook.

    So the grommet installation was not an issue for me when Garry started the testing protocols he is working on.

    I knew MAKAI fluorocarbon (manufactured by TORAY) was strong but the results on this test were an eye opener. This was the first test done. It out tested every other fluorocarbon and monofilament line in the tests.

    Some ABS testing done on the 130 had a high ABS of 169. So when we got 151 on the first try, some modifications in the tool used could conceivably get us to 169 when crimped.

    Yet, 151 with a LI crimp and a non adjustable hand tool is impressive.
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2017
  12. Atuna

    Atuna Salt

    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Name:
    Garry
    Boat:
    Whatever floats
    • Messages:
      (616)
    • Likes Received:
      (543)
    OK! Well, John has kinda blown my cover here. I do completely understand his excitement given the results of the Makai Deception test(s) and appreciate my longtime friends “tip of the hat”, trouble is …I’m not done yet! Very, very close, but no cigar.
    I can tell you that I’ve spent the last few months testing different combinations of crimps and line using a Black Max Acculine tester. My goal was to establish a set of parameters that would produce a reliable 100% connection. The parameters would include the line brand/type, test rating and the same for the crimps. The variable is the final diameter of the crimp compression. The testing has been tedious, but very, very rewarding, involving hundreds of tests. It includes a multitude of brands and tests in both Flouro and Mono. All of the tests have been photo documented and the results logged into a spreadsheet.
    The crimpers I used are common readily available hand crimpers that I’ve modified to be adjustable and reliably reproduce crimps to within hundredths of a mm . It’s an easy, inexpensive and straightforward process. I’ll explain it all when I post.
    My intention is to post the results, with a reasonably comprehensive narrative describing the process and benefits.
    Then there’s the hook …and grommet.
    I am basically a “meat” fisherman at heart. Don’t get me wrong! I love escaping to the open water with longtime friends, enjoying a new adventure as well as testing myself and my gear. Back at the dock however, I want “results” laying on the concrete waiting for the processer and the end result needs to be high quality filets. To that end, I tend to run higher than average drag settings. In the past that tendency was “risky business” and cost me dearly at times. In 2001, I had a series of “crotch breaks” that were particularly frustrating. I was using chafe gear, but even it deforms under pressure and Flouro is notorious for breaking at this point.
    So, I came up with the grommet in the hook eye idea and have been using it whenever practical since 2002. Grommets, as you know, are nothing new to fishing having been used for years to add strength to terminal connections. It’s much the same construct as what is called the “D:d ratio” used in heavy rigging. The added strength aside, there are additional advantages. The grommet acts the same as a ring and allows the bait to swim freely, the line itself can’t be worn or chaffed, it will not deform to a smaller diameter and it’s less visible than other methods. Much simpler too, no thimble, chafe spring or tube to worry about.
    I’ve been able to modify just about every brand and type of hook, from 5/0 on up by using a number of different size and style grommets.
    The hook in the video is one that I screwed up by not closing the eye completely. Nonetheless, I’ve been using that same hook for hundreds of tests and the eye hasn’t budged. Fact is, the moment of force at the eye is negligible compared to that in the bend in the hook. You’ll likely snap the line, pull the hook or straighten the hook before opening the eye.
    As you might imagine, I’ve obtained a non-provisional patent while I further test and refine the concept. John Nappo has been very gracious in using his resources to provide me with unbiased input. John, Randy Penny and others have been very encouraging and supportive in both of these endeavors and my hats off to them for that.
     
  13. Fishybuzz

    Fishybuzz fishybuzz

    Location:
    Tucson
    Name:
    David Tang
    Boat:
    Intrepid
    • Messages:
      (8,129)
    • Likes Received:
      (7,020)

    John IMO the # test on the label is not important, the line diameter is...what is the diameter of the 130# MAKAI line??? If the diameters of the other lines tested were the same then it is legit test.
     
    okie man likes this.
  14. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

    Location:
    The "718"
    Name:
    John
    Boat:
    A big Steel One
    • Messages:
      (851)
    • Likes Received:
      (2,135)
    David,

    The Diameter of the 130 Deception is 1.198mm

    We are not testing ABS of the line. Which, I dont care about. What we are testing is the breaking point of the connection, no other line with the same line rating and very similar diameters came close to the strength of this connection.

    Some of it has to do with refinement of the crimping process.

    We had these results on the first attempt with this line.
     
  15. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

    Location:
    Chino Hills, Ca.
    Name:
    Bill Walsh
    Boat:
    Red Rooster
    • Messages:
      (4,528)
    • Likes Received:
      (4,964)
    The secret is where do you get the grommets... I have been looking for a while. If someone made 1/2 grommets they could be put on a hook, then silver soldered together. Saves opening up the hook eye.
     
  16. Fishybuzz

    Fishybuzz fishybuzz

    Location:
    Tucson
    Name:
    David Tang
    Boat:
    Intrepid
    • Messages:
      (8,129)
    • Likes Received:
      (7,020)
    Now imo that sounds like a real pain....lol
     
  17. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

    Location:
    Chino Hills, Ca.
    Name:
    Bill Walsh
    Boat:
    Red Rooster
    • Messages:
      (4,528)
    • Likes Received:
      (4,964)
    I have used Delrin grommets that I split one side with side cutters and put on my kite gear and Marauder. Just have to be careful to position the grommet carefully
     
    Fishybuzz likes this.
  18. Steve K

    Steve K Hey, I'm gettin' bit...

    Location:
    Bishop
    Name:
    Steve
    Boat:
    18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
    • Messages:
      (10,390)
    • Likes Received:
      (5,196)
    When I first saw one of Gary's hooks, I was intrigued. Made up a couple for myself. 9/0 J hook is for a Skippy, 9/0 Eagle Claw for maybe a big Sardine. Or small Mackerel, maybe a Tube?

    I used ring and grommet. That's what I saw Gary had used. A while ago...

    20170916_190734.jpg
     
  19. Atuna

    Atuna Salt

    Location:
    Huntington Beach, CA
    Name:
    Garry
    Boat:
    Whatever floats
    • Messages:
      (616)
    • Likes Received:
      (543)
    Y'know there's no reason you couldn't tie this. Can't double, but there's no reason to given the diameter. One of Fishy's Uni's would be perfect.
     
    Fishybuzz likes this.
  20. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

    Location:
    Chino Hills, Ca.
    Name:
    Bill Walsh
    Boat:
    Red Rooster
    • Messages:
      (4,528)
    • Likes Received:
      (4,964)
    Steve K likes this.

Share This Page