Soldering solid rings; who where what when ?

Shimano Penn

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I want to learn how to solder solid rings on jigs. I'm guessing there are U-tube videos :rolleyes: What about supplies? Tools, correct torch, open rings, solder... School my ass, how do I learn this?
 
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mmsblee

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Try this kit from Surfacer Iron
 
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TOTW

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  • Dec 23, 2005
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    Lots and lots of posts on the subject. Most braze with 56% silver to either 304 or 316 stainless steel butt/jump rings. For jigs, either 16 or 14 gauge in various diameters.
    My preference for heavy duty brazing is bronze, but it does take a lot more heat.
    In any event, you will find lots of information on how to do this with some quick searches. One thing that nearly every post lacks, though, is the safety element. Obviously, there’s fire, but the flux used for silver brazing is pretty toxic. Be sure to read the MSDS and work in a well-ventilated area. This is not something you want to be doing at your kitchen table!
     
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    IronMikeAC

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    Took me a while to learn. For 56% silver solder it is considered low temperature and flows at 1200 deg F. For stainless rings, apply black flux liberally to the joint. Heat with pencil flame. A few seconds after the flux burns off, touch the joint quickly with the solder, should fill the joint and flow.

    The biggest mistake I made was getting the stainless too hot. 56% silver is expensive stuff. You can get 5, 18" , 1/16" rods on AMAZON for around $50. From what I saw the kit has 6 inches? Good luck.
     
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    dbar

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    Get the kit from surfaceiron.com and watch a video on YouTube and practice with a few old jigs. I use my kitchen butane torch which works perfectly for doing the job of silver soldering.
     
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    RideHPD

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    It takes a bit to get the hang of it, you'll trash a handful in the process, which is ok. Probably the best thing I learned doing it is that the less paranoid/afraid you are of screwing it up the less you'll screw it up. Try breaking it with the pliers after, and if you can practically tie it in a knot without breaking then you know what a good ring looks like.

    You can buy the kits but they kind of hose you on everything. If you want to buy separately:

    For solder, Safety Silv 56, 1/32" works way better than 1/16", makes it really easy to control where to solder flows and wets easier.


    Flux, Stay-Silv:

    Rings, you can match what sizes the SIC kit has or measure out rings you have you want to replace:

    Torch, any small butane torch like this will work:

    Then a pair of pliers to open/close the ring, a small, fine brush to apply flux, some scotchbrite to rough up the joint, IPA to clean after abrading, an alligator clip for work holding, and a bronze or other metal brush for cleaning up the slag. Think that's pretty much it.
     
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    madrugador

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    26 blackman MADRUGADOR II For sale ,13'6 gregor hoopster
    If you are in San Diego area jeff from OCT JIGS is going to show people how as well have kits for sale at San Diego tackle traders this Saturday.
     
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    DannyNoonan

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    I just put a kit together myself a few months ago. Eric's summary is spot on...

    Look around a bit for the smaller size Sta-Silv - 1# jar will last for a million years! I transferred some into a 1oz jar...

    Ring Lord is way cheaper than SIC - I think they just repackage them...

    I found a small butane torch at Harbor Freight for $11 on sale - works great...

    Don't forget a good pair of bolt cutters - Knipex makes some awesome ones (pliers too). I went with the smooth face pliers - helps to prevent the ring from getting scratched, which might weaken your knots...

    If you get compact sizes of everything, the whole mess can fit into a deep 3600 plano tray.

    And don't forget to dunk the freshly soldered ring in a cup of water BEFORE you try to grab it...
     
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    IronMikeAC

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    I assume Bronze is stronger? Harder to work with? Less toxic, or is it the smoke from the flux that is toxic?
    Bronze is stronger but a much hotter welding temp. Closer to 1700 than 1200 for silver solder. To get the stainless that hot turns the rings black.
     
    rodblder
    rodblder
    I've brazed 100's of rings on jigs using bronze, and my rings never turned black.....sounds strange.....
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    Justin Joy

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    I sourced everything out myself as some have. If you need rings Just make the drive up to Vista and I will give you a hand full ( I ordered a thousand or so on accident) of both sizes I have. I can show you also how I do it.
     
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    Bert57
    What sizes did you order? Looking for rings for surface iron and flat fall jigs. Thanks
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    fly liner

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    It's pretty easy but does take a bit of learning curve. As stated above, my biggest issue was over heating the ring. Just as the ring turns red is when you apply the solder. Not after it's blazing hot. Thay was my experience anyhow
     
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    Rocket Dog

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    This and some practice. Then it's easy peasy
    It takes a bit to get the hang of it, you'll trash a handful in the process, which is ok. Probably the best thing I learned doing it is that the less paranoid/afraid you are of screwing it up the less you'll screw it up. Try breaking it with the pliers after, and if practically tie it in a knot without breaking you know what a good ring looks like.

    You can buy the kits but they kind of hose you on everything. If you want to buy separately:

    For solder, Safety Silv 56, 1/32" works way better than 1/16", makes it really easy to control where to solder flows and wets easier.


    Flux, Stay-Silv:

    Rings, you can match what sizes the SIC kit has or measure out rings you have you want to replace:

    Torch, any small butane torch like this will work:

    Then a pair of pliers to open/close the ring, a small, fine brush to apply flux, some scotchbrite to rough up the joint, IPA to clean after abrading, an alligator clip for work holding, and a bronze or other metal brush for cleaning up the slag. Think that's pretty much it.
     
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    Larry S

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    Try this kit from Surfacer Iron
    Thank's for the Website.
     
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    TOTW

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  • Dec 23, 2005
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    I assume Bronze is stronger? Harder to work with? Less toxic, or is it the smoke from the flux that is toxic?
    I find bronze to hold far better. Even an over-heated, half-complete joint with bronze will be nearly impossible to twist apart. That said, silver works well, too, but gets very brittle with too much heat. The good silver joints look nice and smooth. Many of the “boutique” jigs out now are done with silver—and seem to be holding up just fine. I’d be interested to hear feedback on how these hold up over time, though.
    As far as more or less toxic—none of the methods should be considered safe. The fumes and smoke from both the flux and heating metal carry all kinds of crap that your body would probably rather not deal with. I do this work outside where the breeze helps carry those vapors away from my face.
    The best flux for silver is the black stuff. It contains a lot of fluoride compounds that are very toxic in high concentrations—these can be inhaled from the fumes or ingested from transferring it from your hands after either application or removal from the joint. I do still use it—mostly for small ring work on hooks, etc. I just treat it with caution. The flux for bronze is essentially boric acid and you can get low-fuming rods to lessen the risk there.
     
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    RideHPD

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    I find bronze to hold far better. Even an over-heated, half-complete joint with bronze will be nearly impossible to twist apart. That said, silver works well, too, but gets very brittle with too much heat. The good silver joints look nice and smooth. Many of the “boutique” jigs out now are done with silver—and seem to be holding up just fine. I’d be interested to hear feedback on how these hold up over time, though.
    I'm really curious about that too, you guys have been doing this way longer than I have, but even when I barely get a bead on and just wet the joint and get everything pretty flush I still can't break the silver soldered rings for the life of me. I should try ringing two jigs to each other and twisting them that way to get more impingement and up the stress concentration.

    But can you see any issues with these? First two are from a vertical jig I rigged up, last one is just a test ring, I can't find any of the ones I've really twisted up.
    20210418_153257.jpg
    20210418_153310.jpg
    20210418_154325.jpg
     
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