Soldering Rings - The Movie!

Brad I

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Thanks Gary, certainly informative.

I've been brazing rings for about 12-15 years and have picked up a couple of things through trial and error that in addition to Gary's real helpful video might make things easier for those just starting out. In no particular order:

There are some duck billed pliers with cross hatching on gripping inside--those do give better gripping, but they can leave indentations on the ring--fine for the hook end, but not ideal for the mono end because they can scratch the mono.

I bought my torch and butane at Home Depot and solder and flux at a local welding supply house. Be sure to get the 56 silver solder as Gary says. I like to get solder as thin as possible for soldering rings onto hooks.

When replacing hooks, as much as possible try to match the size of the replacement hook to the original to maintain the original swimming motion of the jig.

I'll sometimes change out a cheaper stock treble hook on a surface iron for the real sharp and strong Owner trebles, When I do that, I save the hook and use it for heavy jigs so that if I get the jig caught on the bottom, there's a better chance of being able to bend the hook and retrieve the jig rather than losing the the whole thing.

When putting on a single hook, be sure to align it so that the hook is facing the same side as the original (typically the pointy end is on the flat side of the jig).

Make sure that the right size ring is used; it should swing freely both in the hole of the jig and easily clear the outside end of the jig, but no need to make it bigger than that.

Notice that Gary has a towel on the table. Smart idea--it not only protects the table from scratching, but also prevents rings, etc. from bouncing away.

If doing a lot of ringing, I like to do it outside or in a room with plenty of ventilation.

Speaking of doing a lot of ringing a jig like this makes it easier to set things up assembly line style. I'll fix the rings in the alligator clips with the break on top with the solder applied and just go on down the line with the torch and solder. This is real helpful when ringing hooks. I made mine by hammering nails into the wood, using a dremel to cut off the tops of the nails, than super-gluing the alligator clips to the nail spikes.

IMG_0121 (2).JPG


Good luck and YMMV.
 

RichG

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Gary, Brad: This is great information and I like a all-in-one kit.

My hearing is going, what is the solution you dip the fished product in to remove the flux and temper the ring? Where do you get the stuff?

Thanks.
 

Ali

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Great video. I just ordered all the stuff to do it.
 

CaptJgray

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hell no....
Its a very hard to find chemical compound sometimes referred to in the scientific world as H2O. I have extra for sale for 20.00 for an 8 oz container. Please send payment directly to my PayPal account and I will ship it to you...

:-)
 

RichG

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Just tape water or filtered water? Like I said my hearing is going. getting to old.

Thanks.

PS. I do have a bridge for sale if you are interested.
 

stairman

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there is a better cheaper solution for quenching the rings heat...it dihydrogen monoxcide and i have bottles on sale for 10$for a gallon plus shipping
 

RichG

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there is a better cheaper solution for quenching the rings heat...it dihydrogen monoxcide and i have bottles on sale for 10$for a gallon plus shipping
Wasn’t there a city in OC a few years back that tried to ban it? Was something to do as an environmental problem.
 

RideHPD

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Just tape water or filtered water? Like I said my hearing is going. getting to old.

Thanks.

PS. I do have a bridge for sale if you are interested.
It's just plain water to rapidly cool the ring down (quench is the word he used), which achieves the proper temper/microstructure for the steel for adequate strength, etc.
 

Fishybuzz

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OK let's talk about quenching in water.....quenching hot stainless in water hardens the steel but you also run the risk of creating microscopic cracks because of the rapid cooling of the material this weakens the material.....I don't put my rings in a container of water to "quench" I "quench" them with a wet rag or use a spray bottle imo this cools the ring slower and there is less chance of cracking.....i learned about the risks of water quenching on the Forged in Fire television program.....many times I don't quench at all and just let the ring air cool.....so far no negative results in 15 years of brazing. IMO there is no need for addition strength in the ring material.

JMO
 

RideHPD

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If it's just getting hot enough to melt the solder you're not even getting to 500C, I really don't think you're getting any cracking. The strength should be more than suitable either way, water quench more just for safe handling.
 
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Fishybuzz

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If it's just getting hot enough to melt the solder you're not even getting to 500C, I really don't think you're getting any cracking. The strength should be more than suitable either way, water quench more just for safe handling.

Fishdog is getting his rings red hot so that is hotter than 500C
 

RideHPD

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I was looking at the wrong brazing chart, for 57 upper end looks like 750C, and there's a temp differential between the base and solder based on heat capacity, but even still, it really shouldn't be an issue either way. I'd rather not have a super hot ring hanging around any longer than need be. The rings are way overbuilt, as long as the braze holds it's fine.
 

fishdoggary

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FYI by the time I pull the ring out of clip and dip them they are not even close to being red hot or over 500 degrees. The Quenched ring removes the excess flux and retempers the the metal but is not near hot enough to cause the ring to crystallize. I have done testing on silver soldered rings and have had no breakage from crystallization. I am not forging knives or swords and this not Forged in Fire... it is soldering!!!! BTW if you want you can also dip them in canola oil and get the same result except they take more time to clean up cause they are oily...
 

smokinwater

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Thanks for posting this. Very informative, makes it look easier than I thought it would be.
 

CH2iS

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Good stuff! Wish this was around couple months back when I was looking for ways to braze. Much easier and faster than brazing bronze! I’ve been brazing with bronze but now I’m thinking about maybe brazing with silver instead since it’s much faster to heat up using a small butane torch. Thanks for sharing
 

stairman

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Wasn’t there a city in OC a few years back that tried to ban it? Was something to do as an environmental problem.
no but the guy the guy that does the videos of idiots signing petitions at the oceanside pier did one where he asked people to sign banning dihydrogen monoxcide from food...typically numbskull victims of the public school system were eager to sign
 
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geebee

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i can add: HEAT KIT THAT DOES NOT WORK for 'welding' rings to heavy saltwater jigs - quick short answer

Bernzomatic Propane torch
Bernzomatic Bronze Flux-Coated Brazing Rod WB-5 WB5

the Propane torch could not melt the rod onto the redhot pre-heated ring
even trying to melt the rod by directly heating it did not work!

the stuff i read at the time recommend the bronze over the silver solder - the brass bronze Vs silver solder question - but now i'm looking back into the silver pro and con mostly for strength fishing cow bluefin tuna ... thanks for posting the video

bernzomatic.jpg


for those that like details

i have some 5 years a pro welder so i thought this would be easy when i looked into last month

bought some stainless steel SS rings from the Squid people, though they were clueless as to what gas(ses) and rods they were using, and the percent of SS and alloy contained in their rings

i drove around to a few welding shops trying to find 1/16th brazing rod and fluz and info, no joy...

i called Bernzomatic three times trying to get the right materials and trying to get this combo to work ... was told their WB-5 product (approx 1/8th inch diameter) was the THINNEST rods they sell and that their 1,600-degree Working Temperature was well below the approx 3,000-degree heat of their Propane kit

when asked about their MAPP PRO GAS - if it was needed because the stuff i read stated MAPP torch is only 125 degrees hotter than their Propane torch spec - was told no (the propane flame is approx 3,000 degrees and the WB5 working temp is approx 1,600 degrees)

common sense tells me a 3,000-degree flame should easily melt a brass rod with a 1,600-degree working temperature - but not in my experience

indeed i am skeptical of the mere 125 degrees hotter MAPP gas is hype - what's 125 more degrees in a 3,000 degree heat (in a 1,600 working temp environment)?
 
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el Toro

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You need MAP/OXY and a Smith torch to do bronze.

My question on quenching... I'm not worried about the temper harming the steel so much as I am the actual bronze in the butt joint of the finished ring. Does the tempering weaken the bronze? Seems it could make it porous.
 
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Fishybuzz

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You need MAP/OXY and a Smith torch to do bronze.

My question on quenching... I'm not worried about the temper harming the steel so much as I am the actual bronze in the butt joint of the finished ring. Does the tempering weaken the bronze? Seems it could make it porous.

I also use the Smith torch but with Propane/oxy and it gets hot enough to melt bronze.....however I use 56% silver with no failures....the only con with silver solder is the cost....a ounce of 1/32" diameter wire is about $28 .......the flame is about 5,000F
 

fishdoggary

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I use Mapp Gas and Oxygen for soldering heavy 8 and 10 gauge SS rings only as these rings will not get hot enough to solder with a butane torch like the one in the video. There are very few jigs that need 8 and 10 rings though. I still quench them in water and have had no issues.
 

geebee

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You need MAP/OXY and a Smith torch to do bronze...
My question on quenching...
For clairity, you mean a 2-tank (2-gas) torch - mapp plus o2 - the oxygen increases the flame temp

I dont know about the quenching, but does the map-oxygen direct flame melt the 1/8 inch bronze rods quickly?

I would still prefer to make bronzing process work for the strength confidence fishing cow class tuna - i am pretty sure Squid is bronsing their rings

If they weren't so cumbersome I would buy an oxygen-acetylene torch...
 

el Toro

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For clairity, you mean a 2-tank (2-gas) torch - mapp plus o2 - the oxygen increases the flame temp

I dont know about the quenching, but does the map-oxygen direct flame melt the 1/8 inch bronze rods quickly?

I would still prefer to make bronzing process work for the strength confidence fishing cow class tuna - i am pretty sure Squid is bronsing their rings

If they weren't so cumbersome I would buy an oxygen-acetylene torch...
You are correct. 2 bottles. It melts the rods just fine.
 
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CH2iS

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You need MAP/OXY and a Smith torch to do bronze.
For ease the Smith Little Torch is the ticket for bronze brazing but you can also use a standard MAPP gas torch with a Bernz TS8000 trigger handle. You'll just need to preheat the 1/16" bronze rod (smallest I've found) and follow it between the flame and SS ring when heating up the flux. Done correctly it works great but slow and inefficient IMHO.
 

geebee

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pardon me for beating this ...

i just talked with another Bernzomatic factory rep who quoted the temp of their hand propane gas torches at 500-650 degrees, and said propane is not hot enough to melt their brazing rods (despite what a previous rep told me with certainty - that it was)

when i quoted their website propane TX9 data sheet as a 3,600 degree torch - he said it was wrong and referred back to his 650 degrees max (i guess that's in the real world or based on some mystery factor to create a 3,000-degree wobble)

BernzoTemp.jpg


i asked about using their two-tank rigs with their WB5 brazing rods and he said either the Propane/o2 or MAPP/o2 dual tank systems would work, but they both would require a stainless steel tip for either system because of the increased heat - which backs up what el Toro wrote

the rep also added there is only about 10 min of oxygen available in their 14oz bottle
 

geebee

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For ease the Smith Little Torch is the ticket for bronze brazing but you can also use a standard MAPP gas torch with a Bernz TS8000 trigger handle. You'll just need to preheat the 1/16" bronze rod (smallest I've found) and follow it between the flame and SS ring when heating up the flux. Done correctly it works great but slow and inefficient IMHO.
slow and inefficient would drive me crazy - but are you saying the Smith Little Torch melts the bronz rods fast and efficiently?

where did you find 1/16 inch brazing rods, what flux do you use?

$150 on Amazon, plus the bottles:

smithlittletorch.png