So did everyone know fluoro breaks at less than 50%???

RideHPD

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The digital scale is the weak link, redo it with a decent spring scale with a slider and I'd be pretty surprised if your results weren't significantly different. It's an effect of the same behavior, the stress is building up faster than the latency of the digital scale, as there's no significant in the system, little vibrations in your hand are fluctuating the strain state, wildly changing the stress state in the material. In fact, if you wanted to do a better test with the digital scale, try adding in a solid ring and tie a piece of mono at equivalent or slightly greater lb test on-line with the fluoro.

This is why I lament most of the homemade line testers, there are a lot of complicated reasons why material testing is done on very expensive stable machines. Now we don't fish under laboratory settings, that's absolutely true, but these kinds of tests introduce errors and other artifacts that don't actually exist in the real problem. In this case, again the bend in the rod, bow in the line, give from your body, etc. change the fixturing so that the real loading condition isn't being replicated accurately. If nothing else, it's an explanation why fish can break fluoro at the boat when there isn't really any stretch left, but we already knew that.

In general, when you get results like that you have to ask if there's another common denominator that's skewing the test.
 

afraser

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The digital scale is the weak link, redo it with a decent spring scale with a slider and I'd be pretty surprised if your results weren't significantly different. It's an effect of the same behavior, the stress is building up faster than the latency of the digital scale, as there's no significant in the system, little vibrations in your hand are fluctuating the strain state, wildly changing the stress state in the material. In fact, if you wanted to do a better test with the digital scale, try adding in a solid ring and tie a piece of mono at equivalent or slightly greater lb test on-line with the fluoro.

This is why I lament most of the homemade line testers, there are a lot of complicated reasons why material testing is done on very expensive stable machines. Now we don't fish under laboratory settings, that's absolutely true, but these kinds of tests introduce errors and other artifacts that don't actually exist in the real problem. In this case, again the bend in the rod, bow in the line, give from your body, etc. change the fixturing so that the real loading condition isn't being replicated accurately. If nothing else, it's an explanation why fish can break fluoro at the boat when there isn't really any stretch left, but we already knew that.

In general, when you get results like that you have to ask if there's another common denominator that's skewing the test.
Everything you say has a point, however we also tested mono and got over 100% of the line rating with knots using the same digital scale. Clearly knot strength is superior in mono, and stretchy fluoro I suppose. If you get 80% strength out of fluoro with a terminal knot in it, especially under 80#, I'd really like to see that test. I'm looking for real results. The ones listed earlier in the thread only tested line strength and not knot strength.
 

jiggermyster

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I have found that if you take a floro leader and stretch it to the breaking point and it breaks, the recoil damages the leader. It almost looks crinkly. That leader is wasted. Seen mainly on newer model thinner floro and 20-30#
Mono does the same thing, if the knot is any good.
The mono extrudes and work hardens before it fails.
Good way to tell if you're pulling too hard. Three or four feet of mono above the jig will be kinky.
 

jiggermyster

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Has to start somewhere!I think knot strength comes from too many variables to make a statement.Tom
Knots are what kept me off the FC bandwagon 20 years ago.
Couldn't tie a knot that consistently gave me 100%+ of the FC rated.
I'm guessing FC has come a long way since.
 

Northeastfshman

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I tested Blue Label, Premier and Yo-Zuri Pink. I think I'm just knot-challenged when it comes to fluorocarbon. I've had Albacore break 30# fluoro on the first run, with 14# of drag using 30# fluoro, breaking at the knot (not often, but it has happened...) This past sesaon in Oregon I tested the Okuma stretchable fluoro and did not experience any failures on fish or on the testing bench. I used it on my recent 2.75 day charter on the New Lo-An, unfortunately our trip came after the big blows, and other than a bunch of small fish the first day the boat only caught 1 big BFT and it wasn't on my rod...

I think there is a lot of this going on. It's MUCH easier to tie knots in mono than fluro. I hear
Everything you say has a point, however we also tested mono and got over 100% of the line rating with knots using the same digital scale. Clearly knot strength is superior in mono, and stretchy fluoro I suppose. If you get 80% strength out of fluoro with a terminal knot in it, especially under 80#, I'd really like to see that test. I'm looking for real results. The ones listed earlier in the thread only tested line strength and not knot strength.
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Someone isn't great at tying knots in Fluro. Whomever tied the knots was able to tie a better knot with stretchy fluro which is more like mono, hence the better breaking strengths. I watch people try and tie knots in 40# and up fluro and cringe. It's less forgiving, it's needs to be wetted down but at the end of the day you can get the same knot integrity in fluro as mono you just need to be more detail oriented in how you tie the knots and how you pull you them tight.
 
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RideHPD

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Everything you say has a point, however we also tested mono and got over 100% of the line rating with knots using the same digital scale. Clearly knot strength is superior in mono, and stretchy fluoro I suppose. If you get 80% strength out of fluoro with a terminal knot in it, especially under 80#, I'd really like to see that test. I'm looking for real results. The ones listed earlier in the thread only tested line strength and not knot strength.
That's what I'm saying though, the mono will eat that up bc of its elasticity, fluoro will not. Which is a valid complaint of fluoro. IMO the poignant debate is really what real loading rate do we care about and respective knot strength.

As someone else said it would be more telling comparing equivalent diameters, the US lb test system is completely meaningless, other than for colloquial nominal reference. I'll try to document it later as I have to teach tonight, but I just broke some old 25lb Premier on a spring scale that was failing up around 18-20lbs consistently over several trials (Spangler knot on both ends since I know someone will ask before I can follow up). Not quite 80% but with Premier that is really 20lb normal fluoro, that's not too shabby, and definitely over 50%.

I know you just want good information, I have a lot of respect for you, Aaron, ever since I first saw the flatfall bridle. Regardless if people want to debate its efficacy that was a brilliant idea. If most anyone else put this up I probably wouldn't have taken the time to respond.
 
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RideHPD

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In fairness, so are most other people. :rolleyes:
I lose more respect for my colleagues the more I have to grade their coursework. For whatever reason, I've had several instances where career engineers from a certain major commerical aircraft manufacturer seem to believe you add fractions by adding the numerators and denominators separately. Now I realize we learned some horrid truths about the American education system from the social experiment conducted by Jeff Foxworthy, "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?" but that's 3rd grade math, and I would expect at that level you to have that skill mastered.
 
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eat'm_raw

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I lose more respect for my colleagues the more I have to grade their coursework. For whatever reason, I've had several instances where career engineers from a certain major commerical aircraft manufacturer seem to believe you add fractions by adding the numerators and denominators separately. Now I realize we learned some horrid truths about the American education system from the social experiment conducted by Jeff Foxworthy, "Are You Smarter Than a 5th Grader?" but that's 3rd grade math, and I would expect at that level you to have that skill mastered.
I hear you brother, I hear you.
 

af dreamer

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Has anyone ever done a actual fishing test to see if FC gets bit better than mono in the SAME diameter and color?I dont really use it as its just one more knot if tied to mono.Tom
 

dalurker

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Has anyone ever done a actual fishing test to see if FC gets bit better than mono in the SAME diameter and color?I dont really use it as its just one more knot if tied to mono.Tom
i have, and yes it did make a difference **under certain conditions**.
i go from hollow spectra to FC therefore no extra knot is used.
i fish it where my drags/equipment are set for 25-30% stated breaking strength.
 

Bill W

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Testing a dry knot versus a wet knot. IGFA will test line after a 2 hour soak. Glue will work great dry but cycle pulls while wet soak might be different. Dynamics are always changing on drags depending on how low on the spool you are. All that counts is failure during fishing. When something is not working, time to change. Case in point is one angler that had a cow on and lost the fish. When he showed me the end of the line I saw no chew marks and the end of his line was square but I did see a curl on the end of his line. I know that his knot slipped but the angler was in denial.
 
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