Shorelines of Stone

EJ Swanny

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Hey All - KBTC recently ran a show on "Northwest Now" titled "Shorelines of Stone". If you can set aside 20-30 minutes, it is an interesting program on the salmon decline.

It covers things like global warming, fish on meds, the usual suspects, etc. However, I never really thought about how concrete, stone bulkheads, also affect salmon smolts..yeah, probably less than 10% of the problem, but it all adds up....

https://www.pbs.org/video/shorelines-of-stone-wu0kuj/

Give it a look............
 

stuman

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That was a good video. Fertilizer or insecticide could also be causing the reduction in bait fish.

There is similar erosion happening in Southern California. The beach sand is disappearing at a rapid rate. The natural sand dunes and rivers have been blocked. The wind and river water are not able to replenish the beaches.
 

Fog Ducker!

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Why would anyone believe the Watermelons presented in this video?
All of these groups do is create a crisis in order to support their funding. They use unsubstantiated science to create the crisis. I had to turn it off when the guy from Wild Fish Conservancy came on.
Tired of their crap!

I call BD Bullshit!

Let's attack the real problems!

Ducker!
 

fishbadger

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But you gotta admit. . .totally developed shorelines devoid of normal beach habitat is maybe not good for the ecosystem? Not saying folks gotta agree or disagree with the premise, but closed mind = ignorant no matter the topic,

fb
 

FVSerenity

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Adapt or die, the world has been changing since it was a blob, get over it. Thanks god for global warming or we would all be under a mile of ice.
 
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FishPimpII

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Adapt or die, the world has been changing since it was a blob, get over it. Thanks god for global warming or we would all be under a mile of ice.
So salmon should adapt to not having healthy rivers and estuaries? What’s the plan there... grow legs?
I agree that big hatchery supplementation is a must have, and things will never go back to the olden days but seems like a little ecosystem work would be helpful as well.
As far as climate change. I’m hoping the yellowfin and marlin move north before the salmon disappear completely since our only hope for slowing down runaway climate change now is probably a big volcano.
 

Fog Ducker!

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But you gotta admit. . .totally developed shorelines devoid of normal beach habitat is maybe not good for the ecosystem? Not saying folks gotta agree or disagree with the premise, but closed mind = ignorant no matter the topic,

fb
Not closed minded, show me the science. As stated just tired of the ecoterrorist bullshit! Example: hosing the state out of 8 million bucks on bullshit trying to save wild fish. There are no WILD salmon in this state. Just NOR's and HOR's.
Stop the predators from scarfing most of the smolts exiting the rivers, and make more fish.

Ducker!
 
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FVSerenity

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So salmon should adapt to not having healthy rivers and estuaries? What’s the plan there... grow legs?
I agree that big hatchery supplementation is a must have, and things will never go back to the olden days but seems like a little ecosystem work would be helpful as well.
As far as climate change. I’m hoping the yellowfin and marlin move north before the salmon disappear completely since our only hope for slowing down runaway climate change now is probably a big volcano.
Don’t get me wrong, I’m all for hatcheries wish we grow smolt like it’s going out of style! but if you expect environment to stay stagnant it’s not going to. Yellowfin up north hell yeah! I’m down for that!
 
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CSM(R)

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Would be nice to see a survey conducted on the numbers of fish and smolt decimated by hundreds of seals and sea lions lounging at the mouth of every river and stream....maybe one on the uncontrolled netting occurring in our rivers....don't want to step on any toes, but really....rivers can close to sport fishing but the netting continues?

Inquiring minds want to know....
 

SalishFish

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This study has a good set of facts i.e. pinipeds

Search WDFW

Impact of Pinnipeds on Chinook Salmon
Nate Pamplin, Dr. Scott Pearson, and Dr. Joe Anderson
 
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SalishFish

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While I accept my politics and opinions diverge we need to seek to understand before we hope to be understood.

When “environment is not expected to be stagnant” how far does this go? Would removing all trees to the riverside be tolerable? Is armoring all shorelines OK? Opening up seasons for any fish/all fish/any time be reasonable and expect the fish to adapt or maybe it’s us fisherman who need to adapt when the fish are gone?

I too actually “almost” hope for the super volcano to let loose; Napoli, Yellowstone, other. ...or perhaps a repeat of of the European plagues to change the dynamics. Our winner take all, more us better and even more/all is best....is just not sustainable
 
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LJB

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While I accept my politics and opinions diverge we need to seek to understand before we hope to be understood.

When “environment is not expected to be stagnant” how far does this go? Would removing all trees to the riverside be tolerable? Is armoring all shorelines OK? Opening up seasons for any fish/all fish/any time be reasonable and expect the fish to adapt or maybe it’s us fisherman who need to adapt when the fish are gone?

I too actually “almost” hope for the super volcano to let loose; Napoli, Yellowstone, other. ...or perhaps a repeat of of the European plagues to change the dynamics. Our winner take all, more us better and even more/all is best....is just not sustainable
Ive thought for years they should run birth control in our water supply..
 
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wils

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Easy-peasy...….
Eliminate all development in and around Puget Sound to include Seattle. and bring EVERYTHING back to "as it was" 200 years ago.....to include human populations.

I too actually “almost” hope for the super volcano to let loose;
or the long awaited Cascadia Event. no pollution that way. helps the fish and feeds the Orcas liberals from portlandia.
 
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FVSerenity

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I’m confused, how does a super volcano help?

If you mean by eliminating people I have a simpler solution, all those who are that level of concerned about their impact on the Washington environment should pack up thier backpacks and good it to California. You can’t drive because that would just be wrong.(I assume you are living in the woods, drinking your pee wearing clothes made out of fallen leaves)
 
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Sky-Guy

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SO back on topic, Shoreline hardening causes quite a few issues which affect baitfish and salmon rearing habitat. Along the eastern shore of PS, there are about a dozen micro estuaries that are cut off by railroad tracks and associated hardening. Bulkheads and rip rap walls also make beaches steeper over time as the sand washes away, which has a negative affect on eel grass, and associated critters who need eel grass. Hardening also prevents landslides from ever adding soil back to the beach to create and replenish habitat. Then of course we have poorly designed culverts.

The PSP and Tribes in 2019 are jointly taking on this issue with BNSF, as they have been the barrier to fixing most of the issues along the majority of the PS shoreline where hardened.
 

fishbadger

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Yeah but the seals and the gillnets are bad for salmon, so it must not be any of this other shit that I control, so fuck it, open season baby!!

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LJB

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Yeah but the seals and the gillnets are bad for salmon, so it must not be any of this other shit that I control, so fuck it, open season baby!!

fb
Open up on these guys,, I can hear them at night from my house..

maxresdefault.jpg
 

Captain Decent

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I have to view the world in simple ways. There's many complex problems facing salmon but I wonder how much better the situation would be if millions weren't eaten by seals and cormorants.

Low hanging fruit is the sweetest.
 

sgwill122

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All you need to do is put a MAGA hat on the sea lions and Governor Inslee will order the national guard to eradicate them, the PETA folks would also likely be on board. Just gotta figure out how to keep the hats on them.
 
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SalishFish

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SO back on topic, Shoreline hardening causes quite a few issues which affect baitfish and salmon rearing habitat. Along the eastern shore of PS, there are about a dozen micro estuaries that are cut off by railroad tracks and associated hardening. Bulkheads and rip rap walls also make beaches steeper over time as the sand washes away, which has a negative affect on eel grass, and associated critters who need eel grass. Hardening also prevents landslides from ever adding soil back to the beach to create and replenish habitat. Then of course we have poorly designed culverts.

The PSP and Tribes in 2019 are jointly taking on this issue with BNSF, as they have been the barrier to fixing most of the issues along the majority of the PS shoreline where hardened.
Any names at BNSF to write to?

This is quite accurate from my observations. Restoration of near shore habitat will be helpful for the forage fish and eel grass which harbor smolts in the early after leaving fresh water on their way to the ocean . Waves hit the vertical bulkheads, wash upwards and then downwards. On the downward motion they carry the sentiments out and away from the beach. Without the nourishment of a “dirt” bank the sentiments are depleted and the shoreline changes for the worse. I’m not sure if any new armoring is being built? In Skagit County rebuilding/repair is allowed so our bulkheads will be here for a while.

A lesser issue but another one to consider is the method of anchoring private buoys. The old way is a block of concrete with a chain attached. On low tides (at least) the chains lie on the sea floor and swing around, grinding off all life. It’s probably time to survey the buoys and work with owners to change out the chains to a floating line, weighted near surface. Pulling out the concrete and changing to helical anchors is probably overkill.

....then....and then and then....there is the plastic shotgun wads....10s of 1000’s floating out of the Skagit River every year. There has been good progress in developing biodegradable wads, but more commercialization is needed

After traveling the world I know how special it is here. I wish I could just pour the PNW over myself and soak in it. That’s the feeling I get on the days I get to troll around Smith Island, Salmon and Hein Banks and everywhere here.
 

FishPimpII

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I have to view the world in simple ways. There's many complex problems facing salmon but I wonder how much better the situation would be if millions weren't eaten by seals and cormorants.

Low hanging fruit is the sweetest.
Low hanging fruit? You’ve been to the knotty pine haven’t you?

As far as the volcano thing. It’s thought a big volcano would cool down the earth quite a bit by blocking out the suns radiation for awhile. Historically this was thought to have happened in about the 14th century.
I’m not counting on that so let’s hope we can restore some habitat and kill some pinnipeds.
 
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LJB

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Ive been researching my neighborhood, born within a stones throw from Narrows Marina & Titlow Beach.. I knew as a kid I was lucky as hell growing up there,, Then Im seeing old footage and pictures pre railroad,, Man did they screw things up..