Seaman’s Manslaughter

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ahidog

10000 atta boys
Sep 15, 2004
1,301
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San Diego
Name
Tom
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105', Camcraft, 85', Ditmar, 65' Noreck
Crew staffing requirements are mandated by CG, what “could” help is not allowing crews to work more than some mandated number of days in a row or like what has been mentioned before hire an extra crewman that only does the night watch much like a night driver/second ticket.
 
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rexor_rn

Mangingisda
Sep 22, 2016
1,675
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Mananagat
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"CATTLE BOAT"
Has anyone on this thread been out on a sport boat since the accident to check how things are being done along with looking for all the things being suggested?Im going on one the end of next week.Tom
I could not imagine that it will be surreal and thinking about the Conception (knowing it can happen) just as you walk down the stairway to your bunk. Have to silently check where is the escape hatch located and what to do for what ifs...

Hopefully the excitement of catching fish will overcome everything you think plus tiredness put you to sleep. My 1.5 Day still a weekend ahead though...I’m curious to know too.
 

Sandydog

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Mar 18, 2017
170
381
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Dana Point, CA
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John Kim
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n/a
The timeline and type of smoke detectors that one of the crew said were recently installed fits this scenario:

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2018/03/22/kidde-smoke-alarm-recall-issued/448414002/

Manually testing a smoke detector ONLY tells you that the battery is good
You're actually not supposed to use home smoke detectors aboard RVs and boats. The detectors for home use are built with more lax tolerances, particularly with regards to temperature. The assumption is that your home will stay within a certain hospitable temperature range. But an RV or boat may occasionally bake in the sun with the doors and windows shut, rising to 130-170 degrees inside.

So that could be one possible explanation for the smoke detectors not going off. If they just picked up some smoke detectors from Walmart and installed those, the electronics may have fried due to temperature extremes while the boat was unoccupied. Doesn't have to be a defective smoke detector. (Although I'm still puzzled how anyone determined with certainty that the smoke detectors didn't go off. The boat burned to the waterline, and the detectors were presumably incinerated. And the assumption that the passengers would've woken up and gotten off if the alarm sounded, pre-supposes that whatever caused the fire didn't also render the passengers unconscious rather than sleeping.)
 

fish4us

Well-Known "Member"
Jul 21, 2012
73
136
Escondido/CA/USA
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Susan Sloan
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none
What a bad joke this has turned into. Page after page of smoke detector garbage and still no discussion or information about where hand held fire extinguishers are on a boat? I guess they are illegal on a boat or everyone on the boat would be unable to operate them while listening to the smoke detectors? With fire blocking your exit there would have been a half a chance if below deck there was a fire extinguisher capable of being discharged to create a moment of possible escape. WHY is this part of the equation not part of the solution??????????????
I am about to go rex
 
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wils

lazy-ass well known "member"
May 31, 2003
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bill
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I hate boats
(Although I'm still puzzled how anyone determined with certainty that the smoke detectors didn't go off
because no one involved has specifically said that they that did go off. oft times, what is not said is huge.
the crewman who awoke to the fire said that he heard "something". Not "the smoke detectors woke me up".
It was a peacefully quiet night in a cove. If a smoke detector had gone off, it would have been heard throughout the cove and over to the other boat. But those folk said nothing in regards hearing a smoke alarm. Neither did ANY of the crew. Nor was it mentioned in the most recent report.

Thanks for talking about the different capabilities of smoke detectors. Capt Delaney has provided us with more info here:
https://www.bdoutdoors.com/forums/threads/smoke-detectors.727306/

smoke detector garbage
let me ask you a simple little question: what would you rather wake up to? a blaring alarm and smoke in the bunk room or fire blocking your exits. your call.
 
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BiggestT

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Sep 8, 2004
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SM
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Salsipuedes & Czech Mate
Sorry guys. My statement was directed to one idiot.
Hmmmm, I guess you were looking in the mirror when you posted this time?

Still waiting for proof that the insurance company has already cut checks to the maximum of their liability coverage.
 

fish4us

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Jul 21, 2012
73
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Susan Sloan
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none
because no one involved has specifically said that they that did go off. oft times, what is not said is huge.
the crewman who awoke to the fire said that he heard "something". Not "the smoke detectors woke me up".
It was a peacefully quiet night in a cove. If a smoke detector had gone off, it would have been heard throughout the cove and over to the other boat. But those folk said nothing in regards hearing a smoke alarm. Neither did ANY of the crew. Nor was it mentioned in the most recent report.



let me ask you a simple little question: what would you rather wake up to? a blaring alarm and smoke in the bunk room or fire blocking your exits. your call.
As fast as this fire grew and the location of ignition your statement is most likely not an either or situation. I am profoundly disturbed by the fact there are NO, ZIP, ZOT, ZOW fire extinguishers in the passenger sleeping areas on these wooden ships.
 

af dreamer

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Apr 16, 2007
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So would the Conception be considered a sportboat or a sportship?
Inquiring minds need to know!Tom
 

One_Leg

Ret. Comm. Diver Medic
May 11, 2007
5,235
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1967 Cobia Cuddy Cabin/Evinrude Looper
These vessels were built at a time when obesity wasn't the terrible epidemic it has now become.

I was diving lots of boats on a regular basis (2 to 4 days per month).

Everybody on these trips were in pretty good physical condition and could have made it onto the deck without hanging up on their beer bellies in a matter of seconds.

The hatches were not designed for people with the diseased, bloated and weak bodies.

Just like the Navy dive tables were designed for healthy 25 year old professionally trained divers (dive training organizations now use 30 foot per minute ascent rate to reduce decompresssion illness-the bends, subcutaneous emphysema, death), these hatches were made for Gilligan, not the Skipper!

If I remember correctly:

"The tiny SHIP was tossed, if not for the courage of the fearless crew, the Minnow would be lost, the Minnow would be lost.
 

Done_Deal

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Sep 10, 2004
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Joe
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19' Home Built
What a bad joke this has turned into. Page after page of smoke detector garbage and still no discussion or information about where hand held fire extinguishers are on a boat? I guess they are illegal on a boat or everyone on the boat would be unable to operate them while listening to the smoke detectors? With fire blocking your exit there would have been a half a chance if below deck there was a fire extinguisher capable of being discharged to create a moment of possible escape. WHY is this part of the equation not part of the solution??????????????
I am about to go rex
The USCG has regs relative to fire extinguishers for non-commercial boats so I would assume that they have regs for commercial boats. To determine what the regs require is where I would begin my study of this issue.
 
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jimm

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jul 31, 2003
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There are fire extinguishers in the bunk room (s) on these boats. You will usually find at least two, and they should be near the exit so people have a way out if they choose to fight the fire. Fire extinguishers are for fires in their incipient (beginning) stages, not a well developed fire which it seems is what the sleeping passengers found. It seems as if this fire had already flashed over (whole compartment space reaches ignition temperature and all combustibles start to burn in a sometimes explosive manner).

Could a fire extinguisher possibly quell some fire so people can pass through? Possible, but I believe the exit from the bunk room was in the front (towards the bow) of the galley. They would have to get through the whole, fully involved galley, to a safe area. Unlikely at best!
 

Steve Francis

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Sep 11, 2006
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.--.
Believe the required fire fighting equipment would be spelled out on the vessel's COI. That would include handheld fire extinguishers and their specifications, as well as fire hoses - their lengths & numbers and fire pumps. Fire Flash Over - I'm sure this phenomenon is being looked at. Could it have occurred in the galley/salon area? Could the required Flash Over temperatures have occurred in the galley/salon area? Regardless, among other requirements, a proper watch must be maintained.
 
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Rauterki

The worst fisherman on the boat
Oct 8, 2009
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I'm in the market. Make me an offer I can't refuse.
Has anyone on this thread been out on a sport boat since the accident to check how things are being done along with looking for all the things being suggested?Im going on one the end of next week.Tom
I just got back from a 5-day trip and the safety, exit routes etc. were covered extensively during the safety brief; however, it’s ALWAYS been like that on this particular boat (at least on every trip I’ve been on).
 
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