RP knot failure

greatbasin

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These look beautiful to me. Credit Steel8 for the knots. Seaguar 130 hollow to 130 fluoro.
View attachment 870046 View attachment 870047 View attachment 870048 View attachment 870049
I have not seen a FG tied with the leader actually sticking out the end of the knot. It is usually cut and coverd with half hitches isn't it? Anyway it seems there's lots of different variations. Do you have a link to this exact knot
Why tie a knot when you can direct insert into hollow, use windons and crimps, nail knots etc......?

Well I have been accused of being a one trick pony many times. I own one rifle. Bought it when I was in high school in 1979 in Louisiana and have hunted everything from deer to moose and bear in Alaska. I try to keep things as simple and possible with the fewest variables because the more variables I have to work with the more likely I will get one of them wrong. Fishy seems like a sharp fellow and accomplished angler and I will accept his experience with regard to the strength of the FG knot. From what I can tell all of the alternatives require tools and accessories and I don't want to have to buy and keep track of any more stuff. I can now tie the FG knot well and feel that I understand what it takes to tie it right. This allows me to replace a leader in a few minutes with no tools, crimps etc. The big advantage that I feel it gives is that the entire connection is only about an inch long and adds no curl to the line. Seems like any time you insert the leading more than a few inches into the spectra it will eventually start to curl some and create drag the live bait then has to pull around. With a foot or more insertion you can end up with a coil like a spring. Not with the FG knot.

100 lb. Power Pro solid to 100 Yozuri Pink.
View attachment 870675
Jam, I have not seen a FG tied with the leader actually sticking out the end of the knot. It is usually cut and coverd with half hitches isn't it? Anyway it seems there's lots of different variations. Do you have a link to this exact knot?
 

Bill W

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I have not seen a FG tied wit
Jam, I have not seen a FG tied with the leader actually sticking out the end of the knot. It is usually cut and coverd with half hitches isn't it? Anyway it seems there's lots of different variations. Do you have a link to this exact knot?
Doing the end can be done with half hitches, many prefer the Rizutto finish knot, which this is. Out going does not hang up at all and incoming line is not noticed at all. Under fish pressure it will not hang up in the guides, it rolls line to least resistance with the tag end up.
 
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FishRock

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I have not seen a FG tied with the leader actually sticking out the end of the knot. It is usually cut and coverd with half hitches isn't it? Anyway it seems there's lots of different variations. Do you have a link to this exact knot


Jam, I have not seen a FG tied with the leader actually sticking out the end of the knot. It is usually cut and coverd with half hitches isn't it? Anyway it seems there's lots of different variations. Do you have a link to this exact knot?
Greg,

What Bill said on the Rizutto finish. I messed with the half hitches and did not like the results. They seem to work fine but I don't think they lock as well. No hard testing to prove it though. I also leave a longer tag end on the leader simply as a safety factor if the knot should slip a little under load.
 

greatbasin

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Greg,

What Bill said on the Rizutto finish. I messed with the half hitches and did not like the results. They seem to work fine but I don't think they lock as well. No hard testing to prove it though. I also leave a longer tag end on the leader simply as a safety factor if the knot should slip a little under load.
Interesting, i'll have to experiment a little tonight. I do that finish knot like you guys but only after a bunch of half hitches.
So, no half hitches and a just a finish knot... How many wraps in the Rizzuto knot?
 

afraser

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So has anyone used the ft knot on a popping or surface iron rig where the knot gets cast many times? I'd like to know if there is any degradation in strength after repeated casts. Also is there anything special that has to be done for the knot to withstand pulling on cow tuna? E.g. Glue, or extra wraps, etc
 

ReelDealAngler-

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I have a new heavy casting conventional setup just for larger grade tuna (BFT & YFT cow capable IMO): Penn Torque 40NLD-2 on a Calstar 775H (a legit 80lb rod set up with an 18 inch long lighter weight fore grip for use on the rail with larger grade fish on), the reel has 400 yds of 80lb with 120 yards of 100lb solid on top (legit 30lbs max drag and easy to palm spool if needed), I use a 4-6 foot 100lb BW fluoro leader with an FG knot (sometimes the FG knot is inside the rod tip on the cast). Last 8-day I was on earlier this month we were on the local BFT grounds (43) for 2.5 days and there were some big blowouts going on daily... our largest BFT was caught on the kite (178lbs) and it was hooked waaaaay back. I spent a good 2 hours or more each day casting a variety of large tuna plugs, large tuna surface jigs, the large Ron Z and a few other tuna artificials I have in my bag of tricks... no problem with the FG knot on numerous casts when doing it the way that I do (posted my method earlier on this thread)... unfortunately no takers on the artificials at all for anyone fishing them: either the surface stuff or even the heavy yo/yo, Slash, flat fall jigs that had produced well earlier in the year.

The crew and other few anglers joining me on the bow were somewhat surprised at how far I could throw the larger tuna surface artificials on the heavy line using a fine tuned 2-speed lever drag reel (4/0 narrow size). The Shogun is 30 yards long and I was casting the larger tuna surface stuff about 2.5 boat lengths with the wind and about 2 boat lengths into the wind (stiff breeze)... far enough to get into some of the large boils if you timed it just right (that's the hard part!)... many of the large blowouts were often 150 to 250 yards out (they were flying the kite way far back off the stern). The FG is very similar to the Sebile knot which was designed by the Sebile folks who make some really trick artificials: the knot truly flies your guides NO problem, and if you take the few extra steps I discussed earlier there is NO bump coming back in either (even under a real heavy load). IMO, FG is truly the best connection knot for casting applications (live bait, jig or plug) primarily do to its slim profile (the slimmest I've found) and the tag end is on the rear, the knot is made with wraps around your leader with your braid so NO knot used in the heavier larger leader material (like you have with the Pena or Bob Sands knot)... like I said earlier, I have yet to break an FG connection done the way I've been doing it for the last 4-years and at times I've pulled really hard on it!

G
 
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greatbasin

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So has anyone used the ft knot on a popping or surface iron rig where the knot gets cast many times? I'd like to know if there is any degradation in strength after repeated casts. Also is there anything special that has to be done for the knot to withstand pulling on cow tuna? E.g. Glue, or extra wraps, etc
Plyobond on a lot of my spectra knots...just because it makes the knot sticky.
 

Cubeye

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Why tie a knot when you can direct insert into hollow, use windons and crimps, nail knots etc......?

Well I have been accused of being a one trick pony many times. I own one rifle. Bought it when I was in high school in 1979 in Louisiana and have hunted everything from deer to moose and bear in Alaska. I try to keep things as simple and possible with the fewest variables because the more variables I have to work with the more likely I will get one of them wrong. Fishy seems like a sharp fellow and accomplished angler and I will accept his experience with regard to the strength of the FG knot. From what I can tell all of the alternatives require tools and accessories and I don't want to have to buy and keep track of any more stuff. I can now tie the FG knot well and feel that I understand what it takes to tie it right. This allows me to replace a leader in a few minutes with no tools, crimps etc. The big advantage that I feel it gives is that the entire connection is only about an inch long and adds no curl to the line. Seems like any time you insert the leader more than a few inches into the spectra it will eventually start to curl some and create drag the live bait then has to pull around. With a foot or more insertion you can end up with a coil like a spring. Not with the FG knot.

100 lb. Power Pro solid to 100 Yozuri Pink.
View attachment 870675
Nice work Jeff. Your photo shows Yo-Zuri Pink Fluorocarbon with green Spectra. Why is the Spectra leading away from the connection white? Camera angle? Also, it looks like the line is doubled up?

What method did you finally end up using to tie the knot? "Spectra in teeth", or "two hand method", or "tool" , or "???"

I decided against the tool. If I have to use a tool, then I would go with the PR knot (Page Ranking).

Keep practicing. You can tie mine in January.
 

Steel8

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So has anyone used the ft knot on a popping or surface iron rig where the knot gets cast many times? I'd like to know if there is any degradation in strength after repeated casts. Also is there anything special that has to be done for the knot to withstand pulling on cow tuna? E.g. Glue, or extra wraps, etc
I’ve casted with an FG knot all day long in July on an wide open YT bite. 65# braid to 10-15’ leader. Did not see any Deterioration in the knot. As a matter of fact the knot only got tighter.
 

FishRock

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Nice work Jeff. Your photo shows Yo-Zuri Pink Fluorocarbon with green Spectra. Why is the Spectra leading away from the connection white? Camera angle? Also, it looks like the line is doubled up?

What method did you finally end up using to tie the knot? "Spectra in teeth", or "two hand method", or "tool" , or "???"

I decided against the tool. If I have to use a tool, then I would go with the PR knot (Page Ranking).

Keep practicing. You can tie mine in January.
Kub,

Line looks white because I have handled it so much running my thumb nail over it trying to get it to unravel and looking to see how the spectra would wear. Most of the color has been worn off and the weave has started to open up. Definitely shows that the color on the Power Pro is not bonded to the spectra and will wear off over time. Weave opening up makes it look like two lines instead of one.

Not using tool or teeth. Just keeping the wraps firm and tightly laid while pinching the line the whole time. Since spectra does not stretch (much) it seems like you don't really need to put a lot of tension on the line. Just need to keep the wraps tightly laid. I found that if you don't pull hard enough when locking the knot or you add more wraps it is hard to get the last few wraps to actually lock since you need some movement throughout the knot to get it to fully lock. I may have to break down and get a pair of pulling dowels of some sort as it really tears up your hands trying to seat the knot without them. Will likely be my one concession to "not wanting to buy a bunch of tools to tie knots".

I will be happy to tie your knots in January. Warranty is that "If it fails you must have done something to it after I tied it." Made it through 8 months. The next 4 will be hell. Have a great Fall! Been getting snow up high here.
 
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Fishybuzz

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Kub,

Line looks white because I have handled it so much running my thumb nail over it trying to get it to unravel and looking to see how the spectra would wear. Most of the color has been worn off. Definitely shows that the color on the Power Pro is not bonded to the spectra and will wear off over time.

Line is not doubled up. Just looks like mooring line that close up.

Not using tool or teeth. Just keeping the wraps firm and tightly laid while pinching the line the whole time. Since spectra does not stretch (much) it seems like you don't really need to put a lot of tension on the line. Just need to keep the wraps tightly laid. I found that if you don't pull hard enough when locking the knot or you add more wraps it is hard to get the last few wraps to actually lock since you need some movement throughout the knot to get it to fully lock. I may have to break down and get a pair of pulling dowels of some sort as it really tears up your hands trying to seat the knot without them. Will likely be my one concession to "not wanting to buy a bunch of tools to tie knots".

I will be happy to tie your knots in January. Warranty is that "If it fails you must have done something to it after I tied it." Made it through 8 months. The next 4 will be hell. Have a great Fall! Been getting snow up high here.

IMO you need to use line pullers to set the knot correctly or have hands made of rawhide....as stated the setting of the knot correctly is critical and you need to pull as hard as you can especially with the higher test leaders.......as I mentioned before several of us have been using 16 wraps instead of 20 with excellent results the knot sets beautifully Steel8 was the person who suggested it....more is not always better. Just like using a 3 turn uni on heavy line.

Good stuff JAM
 
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FishRock

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IMO you need to use line pullers to set the knot correctly or have hands made of rawhide....as stated the setting of the knot correctly is critical and you need to pull as hard as you can especially with the higher test leaders.......as I mentioned before several of us have been using 16 wraps instead of 20 with excellent results the knot sets beautifully Steel8 was the person who suggested it....more is not always better. Just like using a 3 turn uni on heavy line.

Good stuff JAM
Fishy,

Definitely agree. Getting the Rizzuto knot tight and laying neatly is also a little tricky at times but necessary.
 

Bill W

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Do you lock the FG with a half hitch before the Rizzuto?
 

FishRock

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I do not. Just keep it pinched while tying the Rizzuto.
 

Bill W

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Wonder while it is on the FG bow device you can put a drop of TacGlue, or is it preferred to cinch the FG and cinch line separate?
 

craigen

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Alternative to Rizutto?
I used a five wrap nail knot to make the finish with a Da Ho loop needle. It seems easier to get tight and no pig tails to untangle. I had a hard time getting the Rizutto finish where it wouldn't unravel when dragging hands back and forth over it simulating in/out over guides. I know, another tool added but you can just use a piece of wire.
 

Cubeye

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Do you lock the FG with a half hitch before the Rizzuto?
I lock it after two half hitches. I my opinion, the rest of the half hitches and Rizzuto are cosmetic/insurance. They also create a "ramp" to keep the guides from hitting the tag end of the mono.
 
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Fishybuzz

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At which point to you trim the mono/fluor, after you tighten the Rizzulo ?? and when to you cinch the FG down??

You do your 16-20 weave then tie the Rizzutto and tighten the Rizzutto now you set the knot by pulling on the two main lines ....really tighten them this is critical....now trim the tag ends of both the spectra and the leader material.