RP knot failure

JonathanMM

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I've never used the RP/John Collins knot, else where known as the Alberto knot which is a variation of the allbright knot. Doubling the mono/FC back looks clunky and would hang up in the guides. Rumor has it the RP knot failed for JC on a recent trip. I have used Bob Sands knot. Have since switched to the FG knot with 100% confidence for 20-80# mono/FC. Used it with both solid and hollow core. Only used the hollow core because I had it and need a quick fix for 80#. No problems. I still use the inline splice with nub/nail knot for 60-200# short top shot wind-ons' so I can easily change out TS. I may have to change that policy.

I'm more conservative than Garry in tying my FG knot. I use 24 turns with (3) half hitches to lock the knot. Use dowels to cinch down tight, (key item). Finish off by tapering the Mono/FC tag end with knife then covering with a reverse nail knot, (don't know the correct name for it, maybe its the rizzuto). Lastly add a drop of insta-flex glue over the finishing nail/half hitches, but not the cross wrap, they need to be able to cinch down. May have to test Garry's method with reduce number of turns.

Pull Hard
Jonathan
 
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ReelDealAngler-

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Jonathan,

Just to clarify, I use 3 to 4 hitch knots to lock the FG knot... I pull it tight with the dowels after the first hitch knot around BOTH main line and leader is in place to secure and tighten the 20 crossover wraps... then I do 2-3 more locking hitch knots around the main line and leader pulling them down tight against the first locking hitch knot, then I cut the tag on the leader close enough to be able to file the sharp edges and then tie 2-3 more hitches around the main line and slide them down on the leader tag to help cover/cushion the stiff tag, then a drop a Pilobond over the tag that's covered/cushioned with the hitches to smooth it out and eliminate braid fray (Pilobond is a durable, water resistant flex glue that doesn't get rock hard like the super glue stuff). You made a very good point with regards to NOT gluing the cross wraps at the front of the FG knot as that would be counter productive to the finger cuff which needs to constrict freely when greater tension is applied. I have used the FG for 30lb-200lb Spectra/PE with 20 wraps for several years now with zero failures. Don't see where 24 would make that much difference unless of course it makes YOU feel more confident which is IMPORTANT... IMO when you fish with confidence you fish better as you concentrate on the positive and getting the job done according to plan rather than focus on the negative and potentially get thrown off course when panic occurs. Its all about knowing when to push the envelope and when not too... a little luck never hurts either!

G
 
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Fishybuzz

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I've never used the RP/John Collins knot, else where known as the Alberto knot which is a variation of the allbright knot. Doubling the mono/FC back looks clunky and would hang up in the guides. Rumor has it the RP knot failed for JC on a recent trip. I have used Bob Sands knot. Have since switched to the FG knot with 100% confidence for 20-80# mono/FC. Used it with both solid and hollow core. Only used the hollow core because I had it and need a quick fix for 80#. No problems. I still use the inline splice with nub/nail knot for 60-200# short top shot wind-ons' so I can easily change out TS. I may have to change that policy.

I'm more conservative than Garry in tying my FG knot. I use 24 turns with (3) half hitches to lock the knot. Use dowels to cinch down tight, (key item). Finish off by tapering the Mono/FC tag end with knife then covering with a reverse nail knot, (don't know the correct name for it, maybe its the rizzuto). Lastly add a drop of insta-flex glue over the finishing nail/half hitches, but not the cross wrap, they need to be able to cinch down. May have to test Garry's method with reduce number of turns.

Pull Hard
Jonathan


IMO more wraps is not always better... if you do too many wraps it is sometimes difficult to get all the wraps to chinch down....I have been experimenting lately on the advice of steel8 by doing only 16 wraps and have had good results no failures and a cleaner knot.....IMO fish the FG in the higher # test with confidence....I use it for everything. I use the Rizzuto with no half hitches to finish the knot.
 

AKSalmon

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I'm learning stuff from this thread, but I keep coming back to this: Won't all of these knots -- RP, Bob Sands, Tony Pena, FG -- work **if they are tied correctly**? I've had no failures with the RP on even cow size fish. It's so simple to tie that I am certain I tie it correctly. After all, it wasn't too many years ago that virtually everyone used an Albright to make the connection, and it seemed to work, again, when tied correctly.
 

dh515

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I think you're right on point with the "if tied correctly ". I initially looked at the FG knot because about half the time when I tied a Tony Pena, the knot would blow up under heavy pressure. Like Garry said a couple of posts above, it's all about confidence. I didn't have it with the TP knot. With the FG, I have not had a knot problem through several versions of the knot on some pretty good fish.

I started with my topshots inserted into hollow secured first with Sato crimps, then with nail knots, then nail knots and nubs and ran the gamut of the whole pre-made topshots thing using loop to loop and the in line splice. So now I'm at the FG knot. I still use some of these other methods depending on application. They all work. It's just about what works for you with the least hassle and 100% confidence.
 

Corndog

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I don't even know the name of it but I tie this style.

4 turn uni with flouro/mono over the braid. Then 10 up 10 down. Could it be less here or there regarding turns? I'm sure. But the knot has been bulletproof for me. If casting through guides lobbing underhand is better.

I don't use that last little lock however. Might have to try it

Anybody know the name?

varivas_knot_101.jpg
 

Fishybuzz

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I don't even know the name of it but I tie this style.

4 turn uni with flouro/mono over the braid. Then 10 up 10 down. Could it be less here or there regarding turns? I'm sure. But the knot has been bulletproof for me. If casting through guides lobbing underhand is better.

I don't use that last little lock however. Might have to try it

Anybody know the name?

View attachment 869739

The only way to tell is test it...resembles a uni to uni which tests at less than 50%...
 

Bill W

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I don't even know the name of it but I tie this style.

4 turn uni with flouro/mono over the braid. Then 10 up 10 down. Could it be less here or there regarding turns? I'm sure. But the knot has been bulletproof for me. If casting through guides lobbing underhand is better.

I don't use that last little lock however. Might have to try it

Anybody know the name?

View attachment 869739
Starts with a surgeon knot, then a San Diego with two half hitches...
 

Cubeye

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I don't even know the name of it but I tie this style.

4 turn uni with flouro/mono over the braid. Then 10 up 10 down. Could it be less here or there regarding turns? I'm sure. But the knot has been bulletproof for me. If casting through guides lobbing underhand is better.

I don't use that last little lock however. Might have to try it

Anybody know the name?

View attachment 869739
This is the same knot that I found on Japanese web site seven years ago. Actually it's a triple overhand knot with the Spectra woven in two times. I've been using it with success ever since. Very good knot. They called it "The PE to Shock Knot". There is another version where the Spectra is doubled up.
 
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Corndog

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The only way to tell is test it...resembles a uni to uni which tests at less than 50%...
I just looked closer and I don't loop the spectra in so this isn't what I tie lol. I tie a uni in mono side with 4 turns.. Then spectra side 10 up ten down. Not uni to uni. Regardless of what it tests I've never broke one so I eit her don't pull hard enough or I tie a clean knot.

I also tie spangler at the hook. I've had a fish break flouro from a long fight and fin rub from the fish flipping but neither knot has failed me yet
 
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aguachico

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I use the surgeon knot to attach floro to mono to up 40#, so 13#'s of drag. No failures. it's a great knot. Been using it for about 10 years now.
 
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Fishybuzz

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no it is different
I just looked closer and I don't loop the spectra in so this isn't what I tie lol. I tie a uni in mono side with 4 turns.. Then spectra side 10 up ten down. Not uni to uni. Regardless of what it tests I've never broke one so I eit her don't pull hard enough or I tie a clean knot.

I also tie spangler at the hook. I've had a fish break flouro from a long fight and fin rub from the fish flipping but neither knot has failed me yet

what you are tying then is the Bob Sands a variation of the tony pena...I used to tie the same knot but used 2 turns not 4.....never had it fail but I didn't like the bulk of the uni locking knot....when this knot is tested to failure it fails inside the uni locking knot but well above any drag setting we would ever use....it is a good knot.
 

Wildman

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Paul is being way too humble ....he is superb big fish angler...very detail oriented and eager to try/learn new things...I learned a lot from him .....IMO to improve at anything one must be open to new and different ideas...if they work how cool is that...if they don't oh well...
X 2 , and a very good teacher, himself.
 
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Wildman

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Me and a few others I know find this to help a lot with the FG.

Amazon product
They have videos on you tube on how it is used but essentially it works like a third hand to hold the leader and spectra and helps make sure the wraps are tight and uniform.
DH515 and Steel8 are Master FG-ators , great teachers too.
 

eddiefishtaco

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The Rp failed, did the braided line broke? Or the mono.

That's important info
 

ShadowX

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I have yet to have a single RP knot fail on me that wasn't caused by something stupid that I did like nick the braid or cut it too close to the ends. The FG knot seems like a good knot and is slimer. However, it takes too much time and effort for me to get a good knot. I'm sure there is a critical step in there to cinch the knot properly, but I have yet to be able to tie the FG knot well in a moving boat. The ability of the spectra to bite into the leader is also dependent on the type of spectra and the strength rating. I use softer 80 lb braid with 8 carrier and sometimes its too smooth to bite into the fluoro leaders when you cinch it down and yank on the leader to test it with a FG knot. On the 30-40 lb spectra with rougher texture, I can get it to bite into the fluoro better. If I need a really strong knot that requires a tool, I would rather do a PR knot. Now that is a strong knot.

On the other hand, the RP knot is simple and I can almost tie it in the dark. It may not be as slim as the FG knot, but the simplicity and relatively good strength out weights the FG knot benefits in my opinion. The knot uses the fluoro leader as a stop so there is no way for the knot to come undone like a chinese finger trap when its cinched down. Maybe if I'm using 100 fluoro leader I would consider using the FG, but for all my leaders up to 60 lbs, I just tie the RP knot.

If you look at the FG knots up close, there are a lot of bad looking knots out there. There is just too much inconsistencies in tying that knot. One mistake and you can compromise the knot strength. This is just my opinion.
 
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Fishybuzz

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I have yet to have a single RP knot fail on me that wasn't caused by something stupid that I did like nick the braid or cut it too close to the ends. The FG knot seems like a good knot and is slimer. However, it takes too much time and effort for me to get a good knot. I'm sure there is a critical step in there to cinch the knot properly, but I have yet to be able to tie the FG knot well in a moving boat. The ability of the spectra to bite into the leader is also dependent on the type of spectra and the strength rating. I use softer 80 lb braid with 8 carrier and sometimes its too smooth to bite into the fluoro leaders when you cinch it down and yank on the leader to test it with a FG knot. On the 30-40 lb spectra with rougher texture, I can get it to bite into the fluoro better. If I need a really strong knot that requires a tool, I would rather do a PR knot. Now that is a strong knot.

On the other hand, the RP knot is simple and I can almost tie it in the dark. It may not be as slim as the FG knot, but the simplicity and relatively good strength out weights the FG knot benefits in my opinion. The knot uses the fluoro leader as a stop so there is no way for the knot to come undone like a chinese finger trap when its cinched down. Maybe if I'm using 100 fluoro leader I would consider using the FG, but for all my leaders up to 60 lbs, I just tie the RP knot.

If you look at the FG knots up close, there are a lot of bad looking knots out there. There is just too much inconsistencies in tying that knot. One mistake and you can compromise the knot strength. This is just my opinion.

As stated before tie something you know how to and have confidence in.....as any with any knot if tied improperly it will fail....
 

Bill W

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Most knots will not fail during fishing. Not the point... If you fish a short topshot, the connection will go through the guides in casting. But to be fun you can tie one way on one end of leader and tie another way on the other end test to breaking on a car bumper.
 
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Fishybuzz

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Most knots will not fail during fishing. Not the point... If you fish a short topshot, the connection will go through the guides in casting. But to be fun you can tie one way on one end of leader and tie another way on the other end test to breaking on a car bumper.

A properly tied FG will be stronger than a properly tied RP /modified albright/Alberto knot.....if you conduct the test BillW is suggesting you will find this out.

The way to test a knots strength is to measure the ABS of the knot, most of time we fish at 30% or less of the breaking strength of a line and if the knot is a 50% knot it will not fail before the drag releases hence IMO the high rate of success with some knots that test as low as 50%......
 
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CHUBACA6

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A properly tied FG will be stronger than a properly tied RP /modified albright/Alberto knot.....if you conduct the test BillW is suggesting you will find this out.

The way to test a knots strength is to measure the ABS of the knot, most of time we fish at 30% or less of the breaking strength of a line and if the knot is a 50% knot it will not fail before the drag releases hence IMO the high rate of success with some knots that test as low as 50%......
Ah common sense with a little bit of science mixed in..who knew..
 

dh515

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A $35 tool to help tie the nastiest looking knot ever seen. No thanks, I'll keep my splices and hollowcore and catch just as many fish as the solid braid pundits.
Of course buying several hundred dollars worth of pre made top shots is an option too. :D Options are good. To each their own!
 
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Bill W

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A $35 tool to help tie the nastiest looking knot ever seen. No thanks, I'll keep my splices and hollowcore and catch just as many fish as the solid braid pundits.
As far as your product, you have the best connection.. but given the multitude of other choices I have not come over yet to the FG for big tuna but considering it. I do not see a need to change my hollow to solid. Seems easier than my nub/nail. Ugly is certainly a subjective subject. Pretty to me is quick, cheap and strong.
 

craigen

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Anybody have experience with adding UV light cured flexible resins to the FG knot? I saw a video of a guy doing this on his FG.
 
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