Rigging Flat Fall lures for Big Tuna

Discussion in 'San Diego Long Range fishing Reports' started by Guyster, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. stephen campbell

    stephen campbell aka "Soup"

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    Stephen Campbell
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    1566505573146bc4bd44b1aaeb71ba12.jpg

    One wants to be very careful of a headshaking fish coming over the rail with one of the gang banger rigged FFs
     
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  2. Guyster

    Guyster www.RingedHooks.com

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    some thing to note: Most of the designs and custom configurations we produce are not my idea. I have found over the years that the accumulative knowledge of the Long Range fisherman and the serious private boaters all over the world is very vast (i have sent shipments of Swiveled Super Mutu's to the Denmark Tuna Fisherman). I am asked to make a very large variety of different rigs, I have also found that the second i say "that probably won't work" The fisherman gets it made anyway and proves me wrong.
    EX:for years the Long Range Fleet said "no spinning reels" they are a joke, until FISHORDIE steps on the boat with one and out-fishes everybody. One thing I forgot to mention that some of these hooks i customize are available on Amazon so you may be able to purchase them and configure whatever you want. just search on "Swiveled offshore hook" or "Swiveled Super Mutu" or "Ringed Owner Jobu Hook" etc
    hope this helps,
    Guyster
     
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  3. ZZZZZ

    ZZZZZ natural born jig slingers

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    Nice Guy, Meeting anglers jig fantasys. Thanks for your passed work and stellar service :)

    When I'm around tackle manana. I'm going to throw up a customized jig pic and see what the boyz think. Less is more sometimes. Or not

    And sufficating a big tuna shortens the time. They tire out faster. Run a marathon with half your nasal passage and mouth passage pinched shut would be difficult. More on that manana or soon
     
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  4. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    Anybody ever try an ST76 treble on a flat fall?

    If you want to keep the mouth closed and shorten the time a treble is the ticket.

    And I have asked many times and never gotten an answer -

    Why not put improved assist hooks on the jig?
     
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  5. Mangisda

    Mangisda Member

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    Afraser, what knot do you tie to bridle a flatfall? What length is the bridle to keep the action of the flatfall true? Thanks.
     
  6. screamingreel

    screamingreel Long Range Fanatic

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    Jeff Burroughs
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    Hi John,

    I have not used trebles on flat falls, but I put improved assist hooks on every flat fall I own. I use one size up J hooks from the stock size. I attach them on the rear of the lure. When targeting big fish, I sometimes use a large circle hook attached to a heavy ring on the front (similar to a knife jig configuration). I have found these two versions very effective.

    FYI: I use Shimano flat falls only as they seem to have the best action. I have caught BFT, YFT, YT, Bonito, Dorado, Barracuda, Grouper, Lingcod and other rockfish on flat falls.

    - Jeff Burroughs
     
  7. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    Thanks Jeff.

    Trebles on jigs here in the NE is standard rigging. I am trying to find some video we took of a pink sardine jig with a treble on it. Looks like a squid swimming.

    Assist hooks are the defacto hook for jigs through out the world. Not sure why all of these J hooks with rings and all the rest are needed when the jig fishes just fine unaltered. It just has hooks not up to the job.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  8. surfgoose

    surfgoose active geezer

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    JohnTFT -- Putting a big J-hook (or a bunch of them) on a flat-fall design lure is about understanding that the strike of a Bluefin here in our SoCal waters is almost always a vertical strike upwards from below. The Bluefin sees the lure falling and zooms up and gulps it down and immediately coughs it out. Yellowtail and yellowfin tuna and all of the myriad other types of fish that strike a falling-leaf lure design seem to either take it from a more horizontal angle or hesitate a moment before spitting it, and during that moment the lure's hooks have a chance to dig in because the line angle has changed and offered resistance. A Bluefin starts to spit the lure in a half-second as it is still charging upwards, you only know that you are bit if the line goes slack instead of peeling off of your reel.

    Of course the Bluefin that you guys are chasing up in the NE are not in mile-deep water. Your fish may very well be striking almost horizontally and at speed, and the assist hooks have a chance to get tension and dig in. I got bit-and-spit more than I got hooked-up using the standard assist hook design three years ago when we started to regularly encounter these beasts, and I got paint scratches on the lures mostly until I started putting on big, tough J-hooks to dig into the tuna's mouth as he tries to spit it out, and the front assist hooks either catch and help or they don't. Aaron's idea of bridling a big circle hook in front of the lure would also work (I do something similar for roosterfish) as long as the fish keeps the lure long enough for the line to come tight and thus turn the hook into the jaw.

    There are a lot of ways to use these lures, and adjust them. And they all work to one degree or another. I like playing the better percentages that I think I get with a big J-hook on the bottom. And a 250-gm flatfall is a heavy beast, I've watched it fall multiple times while laying deep in my pool as my wife drops and winds, and the hooks without exception are riding above the lure as the lure waves side to side. I suppose that you could add enough heavy hooks to eventually affect the lure's action, but It would take a LOT of heavy hooks to do so.
     
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  9. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    Thank you thats an answer. And there are points in that answer that can be debated.

    At least its a starting point to understand why all the hardware.

    I have caught bluefin in 20fa to 600fa. I have no idea how they strike.

    Veritcal, horizontal its all speculation IMO. We fish YFT in 1200 fathoms on jigs with trebles and assist hooks and do just fine.

    Thank you for your response.
     
  10. Guyster

    Guyster www.RingedHooks.com

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    Well one thing I should forget to mention, is that I have a large selection of assist hooks in stock. Pretty much all of the assist hooks owner has in their catalog and the new super assist hooks from Mustad. Gary hit on the best point, all Assist hooks have one thing in common, they are all “in-line” zero offset hooks. I personally do not like in-line live bait hooks, if you have to use zero offset because of the regional laws, great. I can take a 200g flat fall with assist hooks, toss it to you and you will not get stuck when you catch it. The lure has a greater potential of being spit out and the point of the hook is probably turned into the shank.
    Now if I toss the same lure with (2) 8/0 Owner offshore hook, you are going to get stuck because of the wild offset and pin prick point. The Jobu is a different story, because It is a big game hook and they all have a zero offset except for the 7699 hook.
    I have always believed that if you are successful catching fish with whatever configuration you are using, them I would stick with it. However, if a off-the-shelf setup isn’t working to your satisfaction then you have multiple custom options available.
    Good fishing
     
  11. Shanethelipripper

    Shanethelipripper Member

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    What is the cost of rigging something like that?
     
  12. surfgoose

    surfgoose active geezer

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    After buying the Flat Fall, it only costs a few dollars to move the stock or improved assist hooks to the top, and add the strong, sharp hook of your choice on a quality split ring (or swivel, if you wish) to the bottom. Currently my lure pictured is wearing an 11/0 Gamakatsu Big Game because I had one handy to put on it, but I also have used Owners and Mustads and others. The two requirements that I look for are Strong and Wicked Sharp.

    Even more critical is to have a two to three foot leader of at least 130# test, and a strong swivel at the top for your line connection. The lure will be deep inside his mouth and he will be chewing on the leader during the fight.

    2018-05-24 18.43.27.jpg 2017-07-06 08.59.51.jpg
     
  13. backlashjack

    backlashjack Scallywag

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    No problems with that array of hooks fouling each other?
     
  14. ZZZZZ

    ZZZZZ natural born jig slingers

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    Made it clean. But with a raider for anchor fishing with big tuna mixed in with hoo. Will post pic on a differant thread.

    Trolling for hoo in the shallows then casting after a troll bite. Smaller treble

    After a 170lb on a TN30 and 50lb. With a raider upgraded single hook. Sure wish the fish would had been pinned shut. Less adrenaline rushes

    Good stuff dudes
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2018
  15. Mike Nall

    Mike Nall Well-Known "Member"

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    I don’t see a need for numerous hooks, I’ve seen jigs with 5 hooks on them this year get bit, then inevedibly get dumped. IMO I’d rather have one quality hook than 5 smaller ones.
     
  16. yakdout

    yakdout Professional

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    Yep
     
  17. vegasandre

    vegasandre I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Exactly. All these hooks you guys are putting on the Flat falls seem Funny.

    I will have to admit the first time I saw all these hooks on the jigs I thought it was a joke or MEME or something...
    But then I think throwing Poppers with Conventionals is funny too ;)

    You really only need 1 quality hook on ANY jig,flatfall ,verticle jig, etc....
    IMO the extra hooks counter act each other and could hurt performance of the jig as well as the fight.

    Do all these designs work? Yes probably at times. Do the stock hooks work? most of the time..

    But I am all about upping the odds in the anglers favor.

    I Rig them like this below. However, I do get bit way more on the retrieve than the fall.. 80 % at least. I think this is mainly because of an aggressive jigging technique rather than the lure action itself.
    Makes for easy lure changes, no retying and ... But also made more for speed/slow jigging styles than Straight winding... I think on the straight winds rigging a hook on the rear could a better option for some.



     
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  18. CaptJgray

    CaptJgray I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    I didn't read the whole thread but I believe they are referred to as the "porcupine"....

    if not they should be...
     
  19. Luke

    Luke Uses alot of bait!

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    Sorry but I am a believer that in today’s deep water FlatFall jigging for larger BF behind SCI I think the FlatFalls with all the clanking hardware with 5 hooks, rings and swivels get bit better than stock Flatfalls.

    Here are two data points that I believe support this position: 1) two weeks ago on the Thunderbird we had 16 fish between 8:30 pm and 11 pm and one FlatFall rigged with the obnoxious 5 ringed, swiveled hooks caught 4 or 25% and there were 17 guys fishing, and 2) the boat rod on the Thunderbird rigged the same way has outfished all the passenger rods for two years. There are no statistics but the outfit has over 25 fish and the crew says it gets bit every trip no matter who is holding it.

    That is enough evidence for me that there is something to this unique rig, maybe it is the noise this obnoxious FlatFall makes that the others fishing the same zone do not make.

    Luke
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2018
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  20. MAG0121

    MAG0121 Well-Known "Member"

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    Just got off of a 3.5 day on the Pacific Queen. We got 16 big BFT, 6 of which were over 200lbs; 14 of them were on flat falls.

    While setting up, crew tells us they've been getting bit better overall with stock setup than any of the custom rigs. A bunch of people cursed their local shops and went digging in their bags for the assist hooks they'd had taken off for a big single.

    Here's the short of it. I got the big fish of the trip (260lbs) on this:

    IMG_5571.JPG

    8/0 Jobu on a size 11 ring; Williamson 6/0 assists with plastic chafe guard on the cord; 130lb Blackwater flouro crimped to 200lb Izor windon to 130 braid (400yds) to 80 braid backing).

    My buddy, however, got three (hard to believe, I know), 2 over 200 and one at 175. He fished a 160g glow with stock assist hooks on the bottom, and an extra set of stock assist hooks on a split ring off the top. He also hooked up once on my second rod with a 160g glow rigged like the Thunderbird "Hellraiser" setup with 5 hooks (ringed swivels for the 4 assists), but the 80lb mono topshot must of had a nick in it and it broke off when it came tight.

    Some guys just changed out the stock hooks to stronger ones. Here's our charter master, Jason with his setup.

    IMG_5583.JPG

    A newbie from Phoenix went one for five on the newer white glow 250g with a single 10/0 big game.

    So, here's the deal. When they're on the chew, and you're in the zone, you're going to get bit. Preparation meets opportunity, plain and simple. You might get it in the gill, or the corner, or deep in the gut, you never know. Each hook setup will work differently in each circumstance. I'd just recommend you pick a lane and stick with it. (btw, I was fishing a Tady TSP 200g with two 9/0 assist hooks, one top and one bottom, and wasn't getting bit. Switched to the lure first pictured above and got hit at 250ft on the first drop. Gott have instincts, too).

    IMG_5769.JPG
     

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