Return of American made Senators?

Discussion in 'World Of PENN' started by Megaolops, May 24, 2014.

  1. JTL750

    JTL750 Well-Known "Member"

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    No I haven't because I'm not a doofus. Just stay out of the water
     
  2. JTL750

    JTL750 Well-Known "Member"

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    My grandpa fished with penns, so to me they are old and busted...

    Haha, I'd take a trinidad ANY DAY over a penn, but that's just me

    Avets are too complicated? There's a clicker, a drag lever and the 2 speed switch. If that's too complicated for you, that's sad.

    But I guess I'll just have to go take my "big, expensive, complicated reel" and fish out of my boat :(
     
  3. johndtuttle

    johndtuttle Angler/Client

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    These are not your Grandpappy's Penn's and you haven't taken the time to figure that out.

    You should think about that. Doubt you will.

    An Avet 50w is not complicated to operate LOL, it's more complicated on the inside and more finicky to maintain, but it is apparent that you have not the slightest understanding of that...open up both reels do a complete dis-assembly and get back to me. One reel has meticulous tolerances and far more parts, for a reason: It needs them for the forces it was designed for. The other is designed to endure more modest loads but last longer through simplicity and ease of maintenance and looser tolerances and be VASTLY more reliable as it has been as the last 20 years of the Baja Special have shown.

    If you ever grasp the difference you will have learned something. Not counting on that anytime soon.

    Weird, Penn invented the modern big game reel and taught the guys at Avet and Shimano and Okuma and Daiwa everything they know about fishing reels and yet they are building these reels that you cannot understand...you would almost think they knew something you didn't?

    Just a thought.

    "Next time I am out on my boat...." LOL Man, I hope you have more understanding of them than fishing reels.
     
    Last edited: Jul 26, 2014
  4. tunanorth

    tunanorth I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    The name "Senator" is just a name, and the new US Senators bear no internal resemblance to the "regular" Senators, other than that they are star drags.
    Comparing any 4/0 star drag to any machined aluminum 50W 2 speed lever drag is definitely apples vs. oranges.
    Both have their time and place.
     
  5. alto mare

    alto mare Newbie

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    You should do more listening and less arguing, looks like you could use it.
    Be glad that Johndtuttle is taking the time to talk to you, that man has opened more reels than you will probably look at in your lifetime.
     
  6. sundaytrucka

    sundaytrucka Fish or Die

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    “We can easily forgive a child who is afraid of the dark; the real tragedy of life is when men are afraid of the light.”

    -Plato

    Still, let us not turn this into a flaming thread...To each their own.
     
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  7. johndtuttle

    johndtuttle Angler/Client

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    No worries Sal. It never is a case of convincing those who don't know better or anything. It's for the benefit of those who may also read the thread that are willing to learn.

    This is the sort of reel thing that takes experience to understand, so it will only ring true when you have it.

    So, I am not as much talking to him, as past him :).

    It is also why Shimano makes the product they do. It is smart to attract the first time buyer as he is easily swayed by "pretty and shiny". Cosmetics are cheaper than guts. Once you hook a guy in the store and he catches a fish on your reel you have an enormous sales advantage over others going forward. Style over substance has carried the day...

    When you are all grown up and finally know better you appreciate a Baja Special/US Senator. You appreciate substance.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2014
  8. hucklongfin

    hucklongfin Deep release specialist

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    Maybe some people would like the new Senators better if they had a nice shiny type 1 anodize that scratches when you look at it and a variable clicker. Oh, and don't forget a white handle!
     
  9. Megaolops

    Megaolops Newbie

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    Wow. I almost feel bad for starting this thread, and have been doing my best to stay out of the Senator bashing posts. Unfortunately, thanks to the new Senator 2s, I strongly agree with JTL750. I too would rather fish with an Avet or Shimano than a Senator 2. Certainly not because I like Avets. I actually hate the overweight anodized Penn international ripoffs.

    Now if you want to compare the original Senators to an Avet or a Shimano, it's not even close. You see, I'm one of the few people who still likes monofilament fishing line. When fishing monofilament for big game, I'll take the Senator every time! Senators weigh less, are much easier to service in the field, have much greater line capacity, and are essentially bulletproof.

    I've fished with Avets in the past, and personally hate them. That's more than I can say than the new Senator 2 though. I won't even fish one. I've seen way too many blown-up Senator 2 reels come back to my local tackle shops. Pure Garbage from Pure Fishing, and I feel that Penn is ruining their name like so many other American companies have done in the past (Anyone remember when Mongoose bikes were good?).

    Now I'm glad Penn is bringing back a few US made conventional reels based of the Baja. Unfortunately these are not even Senators. I do like the Baja, and own a couple of them, but do not feel they are as bulletproof as the Senator. I've already blown out the anti-reverse on one, and know of another person who's done the same with theirs.

    So with that, I'm making a plea:

    Please bring back the entire line of USA made Senator reels from 113 through 118 models (Thank you for bringing back the 117 already.). You made your point that you were not charging enough for these quality reels, and we are now willing to pay for them! Bring them back, and change the names of the Chinese knock-offs to something under the Shakespear or Pflueger brand names. Stop ruining the name, and start building quality tackle again!
     
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  10. falconer

    falconer Member

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    JOHN, HERE'S WHAT IT WOULD BE: IT WOULD BE MADE IN PHILADELPHIA, PENNSYLVANIA, NOT WEIHAI OR JINHUA, CHINA.
     
  11. johndtuttle

    johndtuttle Angler/Client

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    You'll get no argument from me there Doug! :)

    However, you and I have talked retail psychology in the past. I have no idea how many reels are sold yadda yadda in individual case but there is a number there that either makes sense or doesn't.

    PENN also has to look at the R&D cost, timelines for development and testing and the assumption that there are limited resources to do all the things we imagine they should be doing :).

    I would proudly fish a "Baby Baja" and now that Newell and Pro Gear are names of the past there might be something there. 3/0 is the most "all around" size, just dunno if the important Gulf/Florida and East Coast markets want something that is a little specialized for our West Coast fishery.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2014
  12. falconer

    falconer Member

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    John,

    I re-read one of your responses about Senator aesthetics earlier in this thread. Obviously you know sporting goods marketing from a professional standpoint. If only I could have my local "primary care physician" be a guy with your background! Another great story will be how John Tuttle made the amazing and rare leap from sporting goods sales to medicine.

    Anyhow, there are a few of us who fish and understand what those folks at Penn did, in the years before all of the old, smaller firms were bought up by holding companies. None of the other brands in this situation of which I'm aware, have the level of communication with their customer base, or have been given the leash to make even a limited range of products in the US, like Penn. Okuma Fishing, as a small component of a huge international company, is notable for their North American customer focus. Firms like Avet, Accurate, Lamson-Waterworks and other American fly reel makers, and a maverick startup called IRT (Innovative Reel Technologies, dorky name) all listen to customers.

    Good luck trying to have a conversation with an engineer working for Zebco, Pfleuger or Shakespeare. Penn is still a legitimate brand, like Avet or Accurate. Zebco and Pfleuger are just names occasionally touched during successive sales by a string of corporate lawyers over the past 30 years. At the end of the day, it's all about the fishing experience, of which the tackle is a crucial part, but not as challenging or at risk as the opportunities to use it. The tug is the drug...
     
  13. CHUBACA6

    CHUBACA6 Member

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    Is PENN going to bring back the 112 3/0 size reel?
     
  14. tunanorth

    tunanorth I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Not sure exactly what you are asking.
    If you mean a 112-size in this new US-Senator series, that topic is covered in several earlier posts in this thread, scroll back to view; short version is that you can't rule it out in the future, but definitely not soon.
    Just in general, the current "regular Senator" model 112H2 [about $99 retail] is of course a 3/0 size [300 yds. 30 pound mono], also as are 6 other models from $149-$579: SQL30, FTH30, FTH30LD, FTH30LD2, TRQ30, TRQ30LD2.
     
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  15. Noah & Scoot

    Noah & Scoot Wishin I Was Fishin

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    Curious if you know still 9/15 release on these reels?? Who is going to carry them?
     
  16. tunanorth

    tunanorth I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Schedule still holds; all of the major wholesale distributors will be carrying them, but its up to each individual tackle retailer to choose what they will carry.
    I don't think any of the "big box" retailers will have them, at least for the first year.
    The biggest initial demand will be for the "wide" model [US113W], due to the Hawaiian market, so it is possible that you may need to go through a Hawaii-based seller if you want to get one right away.
     
  17. Noah & Scoot

    Noah & Scoot Wishin I Was Fishin

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    I want the yt special!! So turners, charkbait? Contact them?
     
  18. tunanorth

    tunanorth I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    OK, that will be the narrow version, the US113N.
    Yes, contact your favorite retailer, it may be that some of the Internet-based sellers have a way to "pre-sell" so that the minute they come in, one gets shipped to you.
     
  19. Noah & Scoot

    Noah & Scoot Wishin I Was Fishin

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    Thanks Steve maybe next year I'll get on a long range trip with you
     
  20. steelfish

    steelfish the BBB, Baja Bass Boy..

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    danm I feel old now, I really like my Baja Special 3x more than my trinidad and my fathom 40 star

    and actually working on upgrading "tanked up" a 113h and 112h for panga fishing .. that will make me look older I think LOL
     
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