Restrictions on lead ammo. It's for the children.

Discussion in 'Washington Hunting' started by Odin7, Jan 30, 2019.

  1. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Drinking the Suzuki Kool-aid and liking it!

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    The left in this state and other states is getting pretty blatant about ignoring my constitutional rights. Buckle up it is going to get bumpy before it is all said and done.
     
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  2. yelloweye

    yelloweye Member

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    Odin,
    Those are Barnes Vor-TX in 270 WSM at 140g. My friend that uses them reports about 95% weight retention.
     
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  3. Odin7

    Odin7 Odin7

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    https://www.tvw.org/watch/?eventID=2019021011

    If anyone is interested in watching one hour and forty three minutes of our representative process in action yesterday, the link above will take you there. Almost all of it involves gun laws (AKA, your rights).
     
  4. dragonballs

    dragonballs I'm off probation

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    ok i will step out and say it.. I hate the fact that this state is so fucked up and that everyone bitches. BUT I for the life of me dont get it.. I dont know one single democrat but they keep getting the votes. ARE YOU GUYS VOTING. I vote every time and its always RED I dont see how there can be so many dems in this state and not have ever met one... my customers are red and so are my friends.. what the fuck.. I vote 100% red and listen to everyone bitch about what is happening but I have never met a single person that votes dem. get in line just like the rest of the sheep and shut up when your rights are gone... ok I am ready to hear the shit fuck

    I cant believe what they democrats are getting away with and how so many people dont give a shit...
     
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  5. stank

    stank Well-Known "Member"

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    Virtually every teacher, government employee and tax recipient of any kind. Throw in all the “victim” groups and it’s a lock.

    “Once people figure out they can vote themselves money, it’s over.”
     
  6. Wild Bill

    Wild Bill Drinking the Suzuki Kool-aid and liking it!

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    Vance, let’s just say your type of crowd runs in different circles. The other circle evidently views the constitution as a living document that can be changed to best suit their agenda. I fear this state is all but lost. It seems to be raining snowflakes all around us these days. But hey, they will give us participation trophies for voting, so there’s that.
     
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  7. Arima-bob

    Arima-bob Ship faced aquaholic

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    Just wait guys. If people don’t speak up, you’re gonna be in California but with more rain.
     
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  8. CartridgeCalls

    CartridgeCalls 100% Disabled Veteran Owned Business

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    Absolutely. The solder they use in their electronic connections contain lead.
     
  9. swizler

    swizler Newbie

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    In California they used the Condor as the big reason, but no one can explain why the turkey vultures aren't dropping dead. It's all a big lie. And your right no one mentions how many birds are killed by solar and wind farms, including bald eagles.
     
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  10. CartridgeCalls

    CartridgeCalls 100% Disabled Veteran Owned Business

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    They did find what was killing the condors. After all the legislation to ban lead later test results proved it was radiator fluid that killed several condors. But congress in all their wisdom decided not to lift the ban.
     
  11. Blackfish

    Blackfish Fishing, a perpetual series of occasions for hope.

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    Welcome to California. Oh never mind. My mistake.
     
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  12. Odin7

    Odin7 Odin7

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    Last year, I suggested to people collected at a signature table for I-1639 outside the Target in Gig Harbor that nothing in it would prevent the next school shooting. A guy looks up after giving his endorsement and says, "WELL, WE HAVE TO DO SOMETHING!"

    I wish solutions to society's ills were as simple as a pen stroke away.

    I agree with the guy's statement, but not his solution. I'd prefer one that would likely work. Our children and our educators deserve honest discussions about what to do with problem students. Those kids are out there and I have a good sense that the schools know who many of them are.

    This lead issue is not about toxicity risks. It is part of a broader campaign to kill the Second Amendment by a thousand cuts.

    If you want a little frustration to add to your power outage, read this article about the Parkland shooting from the WSJ a couple of days ago. That shooting was totally preventable.

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-new-sheriff-for-parkland-11549663545
     
  13. Aggro

    Aggro Keepin my pimp hand strong!

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  14. Odin7

    Odin7 Odin7

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    "Sen. Lois Wolk (D-Davis) introduced SB 755 because of concern that people with drug or alcohol problems may use guns more irresponsibly."

    If we used that "concern" as a gold standard to determine which citizens were responsible enough to vote, the democrats would lose most of their supporters.
     
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  15. DH10

    DH10 Member

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    Tons of very good science documenting that lead is much more toxic than copper. It not a debate. Copper is an essential element, a micronutrient required for cellular processes. Lead is not. There is no "safe dose", It is exponentially more toxic than copper. Lead bullets also have a tendency to fragment when they strike bone at high velocities, x-rays of carcasses show the fragments in the meat. How likely it is that we eat that, since it is clearly damaged, is probably unlikely. But here in Teton Park, they document yearly spikes in the lead concentrations in eagles, hawks and ravens when the elk season open. I switched to Federal copper bullets, they kill elk just fine.....
     
  16. wdlfbio

    wdlfbio Once you go Cat, you never go back

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    This is a fairly decent, practical peer-reviewed journal for wildlife management. That is, they don’t have a non-hunting bias. A take home is that some fragments travelled up to 45 cm (17”) from the impact point. So even with a neck shot, and when you discard that meat, there could be fragments in what you bring home. That doesn’t concern me as I’m not too worried about my lead consumption, but it shows how far fragments can travel. Another issue is that fair research has shown that we are leaving lead out there in a manner that attracts scavengers to consume it.

    https://www.researchgate.net/public...ition_in_white-tailed_deer_and_domestic_sheep


    Although I found this link through the Center for Biological Diversity’s website (a group that is anti hunting, anti fishing, anti killing, and anti consumable use) , the Wildlife Society Bulletin is a respected peer-reviewed journal.
    https://www.biologicaldiversity.org/species/birds/California_condor/pdfs/Hunt-et-al-2006.pdf

    Clearly, there are ample fragments in gut piles and the bloodshot meat we don’t pack out (who would pack out that stuff?). I am not aware of cause/effect research showing that animal A ate a deer carcass (or 5 dead ground squirrels left out by shooters) that had the lead fragment levels tested before consumed and then edited the dead animal A and saw those fragments in the animal, which then was shown to be the cause of death. That’s u realistic research. But, fair research does show high enough levels of lead left out there for scavengers and rehab facilities and vet clinics show scavenging animals being brought in that have lethal and sub lethal (at the time they were brought in) levels of lead poisoning.

    There’s ample additional legit research out there on the topic of ingestible lead fragments left by hunters. It’s easy to find if you care to actually look.

    But, the none of it actually supports the crap the alerted us to in his first post. That bill about saving the children is horseshit and a clear attempt at reducing hunting and shooting opportunities.
     
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  17. Aggro

    Aggro Keepin my pimp hand strong!

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    Let's do the math here. Most animals shot in the US are birds. Lead shot doesn't "fragment" in bird shot, it rarely even gets deformed. But it stays in the bird. In flyways or in fields with grain there will be shot close to the surface. Wounded animals not found by the hunter are probably 10x what gets lost on big game if not more. These birds are eaten by more scavengers than anything by yotes or wolves or "Condors" with wounded big game and we don't see any of the BS made up documentation listed for the reason they wanted to ban lead. This even with the lead ban on waterfowl at the federal level. All that old shot didn't get just removed suddenly, it's still there.

    Small game? Condors don't get first dibs on dead squirrels shot with lead from a .22. I've also never seen a big game round stay inside a deer shot in CA. From almost any big game rifle it will punch right through all but the biggest of big game animals of which there aren't but a handful in CA. Where are all the dead foxes? Raccoons? Crows are usually the first on the scene for a free meal. Where are all the dead crows?

    We can think things static and variable in our analysis here. But, Vultures live as long as Condors and people can live twice that with both being omnivores. So what gives?

    This is fabricated. As already posted, how do vultures not die but condors do? They are closely related. Where are all the coyote and skunk carcasses? Oh, there aren't any? What about Magpies, crows and ravens? Are they somehow able to process what condors can't? Fuck no. Chickens will eat anything and I've never heard of anyone getting lead poison from eating chicken that spent it's life eating dove, pheasant and quail carcasses loaded with shot. We cleaned birds, deer or whatever and the pigs and chickens got the spoils. We are talking about at least once a week. Never a dead chicken or pig unless we killed it. I shot hundreds of mice and rats, birds with a pellet gun and fed it to the cats, dogs, chickens and pigs yet no dead animals. I don't see how any wild animal could be fed more lead than the "controlled environment" we had on the farm. I guarantee every mouse we killed had a lead pellet in it after we shot it. Cats and dogs gulped them down. Plus, there was no way we got all the shot out of the ducks, pheasants and other birds we shot. I have two new teeth to prove that. :D

    There is science and then there is bull shit as an agenda. When is the hunting season in Teton Park? Where can I get a tag?
     
    Last edited: Feb 12, 2019
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  18. stank

    stank Well-Known "Member"

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    Yes, but it for the children....
     
  19. Aggro

    Aggro Keepin my pimp hand strong!

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    Or the tax dollars and "environmental studies". You had better prove your analysis holds water or your job and funding end. That's how these jobs work.
    If you are good at it you can cube about any data to sway your analysis. Until you run into people that can prove it full of shit.

    None of this matters though if it's politically motivated and you can swing votes.
     
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  20. stank

    stank Well-Known "Member"

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    And there will be no end to it. The left simply “cares” too much to stop at lead...
     
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