Researching new boat build

Hot_Pursuit

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Jun 21, 2013
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Seabeck
Name
Eric
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2009 Albin 32TE
Happy New Year!!
I’m in the market for a new boat since I just sold my Albin. The purpose of the boat would be for extended cruising and fishing trips. Offshore for tuna, halibut, salmon plus extended cruising trips up to desolation sound, rivers inlet, etc. comfortable for 6 people fishing and extended cruising for 2-3 people. Budget hopefully will be about 325-350K Tops.
I’ve been looking hard at a 2015 Kingfisher 3325 with Yamaha 350s. It has all the main features I want, except joystick steering. They are asking 295k, which is crazy. New they went for about 325. I can build a custom 32x11 pilot house with the features I need for about the same $$. Joystick control would likely be another 25k above that.
For those of you that have joystick controls, is it worth the money? Have you had issues with it?

The new build will have to have the following features:
-Trailerable
-forward standup head in V berth
-deep V (+20 degrees at transom)
-dinette in main cabin (possible quarter berth underneath)
-galley with stove, microwave/convection combo, sink and large refer
-captain chair, twin copilot chairs all suspension seats
-aft helm with main and kicker controls
-large fuel tank
-large waste and water tanks
-operating space for honda 2kw or onboard generator
-Diesel Hydrionic water/air heater
-electronics would include forward/aft MFDs, Radar, autopilot, AIS reciever,
-large fish wells with macerators
-roof davit and pot puller
-??
Options I’d like to get, but possibly cant afford:
-Optimus 360 joystick steering or similar
-Seakeeper or Quick MC2 gyro stabilizer
-zipwake trim tabs
-FLIR cameras

for those of you who have had custom builds, what was the features you added that you couldn’t live without, which were a waste of $$, or what should have added during the design?

I’ve discussed this build with many of the local builders already. I really like the high bow that the big kingfisher 3325 had, which is similar(identical) to the Ocean Roamer design. Interior of the two boats are also identical.

TIA,
Eric
 
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Pipejumper

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Dec 17, 2014
37
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Larry
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22' Alumaweld Intruder
For that class of boat you might look at an RSW for the fish boxes. Not having to worry about ice for your catch opens up some flexibility.

You indicated an AIS receiver. For your intended use, make sure you also have a transponder. That way they see you too.

At least six drop in rod holders. Straight out the side mid ship, corner at a 45 and a corner straight out the back. No reason to mess with Scott’s or even burrewiins.

Sea chest for all your raw water needs.
 
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MYNomad

Heading South
Dec 12, 2007
4,175
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Pacific Northwest / West Coast Mexico
Name
Rick
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Yes
Since no one else has answered (yet <edit -- during the time it took me to type this up, I see that there are now some responses>), and since planning a boat from a blank canvas is a lot of fun, I will share my insights though my use is a little different than yours.
1. Joystick control -- I don't have it, but it sure seems like a gimick. I can't imagine what that can do for you that a little boat handling skill cannot.
2. SeaKeepers -- First, I don't have them (but do have Wesmar active fin stabilizers), but I have heard some negatives: maintenance is very expensive, they are noisy, and although they work best at rest (when my fins are worthless) but don't do much at 7 knots or above. Seakeepers consume a lot of electricity -- more than your battery bank can likely handle -- so if you want to be able to use them at anchor, you probably need a genset (see below).
3. FLIR is useful, particularly inside harbors, less so offshore.
4. May not be an issue where you are, but in warmer climates it is nice to have the fishholds insulated for better ice keeping.
5. Get a built in genset -- its way safer and more convenient that a portable.
6. Even though we have a full sized oven and range, we do most of our cooking on a BBQ, which I strongly encourage, but if you are going to get a BBQ you should get a propane locker to safely store full-size propane containers -- way more convenient that messing around with those little green ones, and cheaper too.
7. If bottom topography is important to you, check out the PBG (personal bathymetric generator) feature on Furuno -- it creates a very detailed 3D chart of bottom conditions (although you have to run through an area a bunch of times to build up a complete data base). A buddy of mine bought a complete Garmin package and now wishes he had PBG.

Good luck! -Rick
 
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Hot_Pursuit

Member
Jun 21, 2013
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Seabeck
Name
Eric
Boat
2009 Albin 32TE
For that class of boat you might look at an RSW for the fish boxes. Not having to worry about ice for your catch opens up some flexibility.

You indicated an AIS receiver. For your intended use, make sure you also have a transponder. That way they see you too.

At least six drop in rod holders. Straight out the side mid ship, corner at a 45 and a corner straight out the back. No reason to mess with Scott’s or even burrewiins.

Sea chest for all your raw water needs.
Thanks.
-I’ll upgrade to an AIS transceiver
-drop in rod holders. Are you referring to a standard flush mount rod holder?
-what do you mean by a sea chest? A common seacock for livewell, wash down, generator supply? That Sounds like a bad idea to me.
thanks
 
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Hot_Pursuit

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Jun 21, 2013
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Seabeck
Name
Eric
Boat
2009 Albin 32TE
Since no one else has answered (yet <edit -- during the time it took me to type this up, I see that there are now some responses>), and since planning a boat from a blank canvas is a lot of fun, I will share my insights though my use is a little different than yours.
1. Joystick control -- I don't have it, but it sure seems like a gimick. I can't imagine what that can do for you that a little boat handling skill cannot.
2. SeaKeepers -- First, I don't have them (but do have Wesmar active fin stabilizers), but I have heard some negatives: maintenance is very expensive, they are noisy, and although they work best at rest (when my fins are worthless) but don't do much at 7 knots or above. Seakeepers consume a lot of electricity -- more than your battery bank can likely handle -- so if you want to be able to use them at anchor, you probably need a genset (see below).
3. FLIR is useful, particularly inside harbors, less so offshore.
4. May not be an issue where you are, but in warmer climates it is nice to have the fishholds insulated for better ice keeping.
5. Get a built in genset -- its way safer and more convenient that a portable.
6. Even though we have a full sized oven and range, we do most of our cooking on a BBQ, which I strongly encourage, but if you are going to get a BBQ you should get a propane locker to safely store full-size propane containers -- way more convenient that messing around with those little green ones, and cheaper too.
7. If bottom topography is important to you, check out the PBG (personal bathymetric generator) feature on Furuno -- it creates a very detailed 3D chart of bottom conditions (although you have to run through an area a bunch of times to build up a complete data base). A buddy of mine bought a complete Garmin package and now wishes he had PBG.

Good luck! -Rick
Thanks. Good to know. I think the Seakeeper/quick MC2 plus Zipwake tabs would be an awesome combo. Seakeeper while drifting or going slow, and the Zipwake whike on plane?
My Garmin I have in my 18 Duckworth can generate and save bottom mapping. Can even share them online and download to other people. Sounds like the same thing?
 
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Hot_Pursuit

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Jun 21, 2013
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Name
Eric
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2009 Albin 32TE
For that class of boat you might look at an RSW for the fish boxes. Not having to worry about ice for your catch opens up some flexibility.

You indicated an AIS receiver. For your intended use, make sure you also have a transponder. That way they see you too.

At least six drop in rod holders. Straight out the side mid ship, corner at a 45 and a corner straight out the back. No reason to mess with Scott’s or even burrewiins.

Sea chest for all your raw water needs.
I need to research RSW. Is that seawater cooled refrigeration?
 
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KimH

Someday I'll live the dream.
Mar 4, 2009
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Kim
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28' Farallon Walkaround "Paragon"
Way different class of boat than I know anything about but....

AIS receiver you can get from several the VHF radios out there. I've used Standard Horizon. NMEA 2000 puts it into your MFD/Radar. I like that. If you went AIS that also transmitted they also put the receive data over to your MFD. If you want an AIS receiver that can grab signals from longer distances Shine-Micro a local Washington state company makes a very good unit.

FLIR??? I don't know...I had it on one of the commercial rigs I ran up North. We tried it hoping we could see the ice flows when fishing by the ice edge instead of buying a searchlight which were up in the $15+Grand range or more. We quickly figured the FLiR for us was close to worthless. Fog, snow, rain forget it. Cool unit sitting in harbor and to be able to see the heat signature coming off of a trampers engine room but for real use with any weather other than clear I just don't see it or the expense of it. Maybe the tech has improved but.... Or maybe on the cruising side of it going into some harbor it could be useful.
 
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KimH

Someday I'll live the dream.
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Kim
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28' Farallon Walkaround "Paragon"
Also as far as bottom mapping. We used WASSP which is a multibeam unit piping data into an Olex plotter system. Expensive but was a must have when we were working in the Aleutians. Furuno now has the DFF3D multibeam which is very reachable for most of us cost wise. You'd have to use the NobleTech Time Zero and their module to map with. You'd be surprised how fast you can map an area with the multibeam. The one drawback of the DFF3D versus it's big brothers the WASSP is I don't think it does bottom discrimination like the WASSP.
 
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Hot_Pursuit

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Eric
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Yes it does. Maybe my buddy has a feature he doesn't know about, which would make him very happy.
It’s called Garmin Quickdraw. records bottom mapping in 1’ increments, can also be shared via QuickDraw group online. I don’t have the local lakes charts for Washington, so each time we go to a new lake, we turn on the QuickDraw record feature so we have it saved. Works great.
 
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Pipejumper

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Dec 17, 2014
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Name
Larry
Boat
22' Alumaweld Intruder
Thanks.
-I’ll upgrade to an AIS transceiver
-drop in rod holders. Are you referring to a standard flush mount rod holder?
-what do you mean by a sea chest? A common seacock for livewell, wash down, generator supply? That Sounds like a bad idea to me.
thanks

I did mean the flush mount rod holders when I said drop ins. I’m surprised how many NW boats don’t utilize them. I had Koffler weld pipe in as my flush mounts so they are permanent and I didn’t ever have to mess with them again.

A sea chest is actually considered to be the proper method to service multiple raw water systems for a lot of big boats. A few NW builders have caught on and started using them but many still just keep putting multiple through hulls in. It’s basically a pipe, normally square pipe, that is open to the bottom of the boat. The top of the pipe is usually above the waterline and usually has a service hatch. Then you stub off any of your raw water service needs with shut off valves at each connection. Technically you still have the same amount of below water failure points but they are centralized for faster trouble shooting and maintenance. Do a little research on them and it might make sense.

The RSW system won’t be a cheap add but when you figure in the ease, flexibility and cost savings of not messing with ice, I’d try to get it in your budget before some other things on your wish list.
 
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Hot_Pursuit

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Eric
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2009 Albin 32TE
I did mean the flush mount rod holders when I said drop ins. I’m surprised how many NW boats don’t utilize them. I had Koffler weld pipe in as my flush mounts so they are permanent and I didn’t ever have to mess with them again.

A sea chest is actually considered to be the proper method to service multiple raw water systems for a lot of big boats. A few NW builders have caught on and started using them but many still just keep putting multiple through hulls in. It’s basically a pipe, normally square pipe, that is open to the bottom of the boat. The top of the pipe is usually above the waterline and usually has a service hatch. Then you stub off any of your raw water service needs with shut off valves at each connection. Technically you still have the same amount of below water failure points but they are centralized for faster trouble shooting and maintenance. Do a little research on them and it might make sense.

The RSW system won’t be a cheap add but when you figure in the ease, flexibility and cost savings of not messing with ice, I’d try to get it in your budget before some other things on your wish list.
Thanks. Do you put a high speed pickup for the seachest pipe? what’s the typical diameter of the seachest? I could envision a large seachest with a flanged top that contained some type of long strainer basket that could be removed for cleaning?? I need to do some research on this, Thanks.
 
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Chtucker

Lowe boat denter
Feb 15, 2012
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Howard
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Double Trouble 28' Armstrong
I would find a builder your trust and let them quote it....some are more flexible than others, some will let you pick every nut and bolt abs others will want you to stick with their plan..

I would talk to owners who have had their boats built.. ACI, Crozier, Brix (Formerly Armstrong), Coldwater, Allied, North River, Wooldridge owners are all right here. There are others that might be harder to find owners Lifeproof, Maverik, Silverback, EagleCraft

You know what you want, I think the builder is the most important thing.
 
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Hot_Pursuit

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Jun 21, 2013
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Name
Eric
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2009 Albin 32TE
I would find a builder your trust and let them quote it....some are more flexible than others, some will let you pick every nut and bolt abs others will want you to stick with their plan..

I would talk to owners who have had their boats built.. ACI, Crozier, Brix (Formerly Armstrong), Coldwater, Allied, North River, Wooldridge owners are all right here. There are others that might be harder to find owners Lifeproof, Maverik, Silverback, EagleCraft

You know what you want, I think the builder is the most important thing.
Thanks. That’s what I’m starting to do. One builder has already told me that owner input is the most important part of the process, and I would need a couple weeks sitting down with the design team to work out every detail...I liked that.
 
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Hot_Pursuit

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Jun 21, 2013
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Eric
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2009 Albin 32TE
I did mean the flush mount rod holders when I said drop ins. I’m surprised how many NW boats don’t utilize them. I had Koffler weld pipe in as my flush mounts so they are permanent and I didn’t ever have to mess with them again.

A sea chest is actually considered to be the proper method to service multiple raw water systems for a lot of big boats. A few NW builders have caught on and started using them but many still just keep putting multiple through hulls in. It’s basically a pipe, normally square pipe, that is open to the bottom of the boat. The top of the pipe is usually above the waterline and usually has a service hatch. Then you stub off any of your raw water service needs with shut off valves at each connection. Technically you still have the same amount of below water failure points but they are centralized for faster trouble shooting and maintenance. Do a little research on them and it might make sense.

The RSW system won’t be a cheap add but when you figure in the ease, flexibility and cost savings of not messing with ice, I’d try to get it in your budget before some other things on your wish list.
found a pic of one. Not sure what the t connection is at the top. Looks like it’s connected to the bottle with pink fluid?? Submarines use sea chests for seawater systems, and have connections for high pressure air to blow them out.
C6FA9582-80D4-4E16-AF72-333A79C3A352.jpeg
 
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OMEGA

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MCS
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40 Cabo FB
That is a lot of systems and boat to be trailerable and in that budget new. You are going to have to sacrifice some quality or make some concessions in equipment IMO. I have the zipwakes on a Pursuit cc and they are fantastic. Given your intended uses a built in generator is a no brainier. No way a proper sized sea keeper will fit in your plan and still be trailerable. They weigh a lot and from what I have read friends love them and owners hate them. Big money service and poor longevity. I tried the big boat that could still trailer thing. Total pain the ass towing 15k and all of our ramps have way more slope than the FL market. I would pivot to a 33 GW express or 345 Pursuit. Would do everything you want minus trailerable. Just my 2 cents.
 
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Hot_Pursuit

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Eric
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That is a lot of systems and boat to be trailerable and in that budget new. You are going to have to sacrifice some quality or make some concessions in equipment IMO. I have the zipwakes on a Pursuit cc and they are fantastic. Given your intended uses a built in generator is a no brainier. No way a proper sized sea keeper will fit in your plan and still be trailerable. They weigh a lot and from what I have read friends love them and owners hate them. Big money service and poor longevity. I tried the big boat that could still trailer thing. Total pain the ass towing 15k and all of our ramps have way more slope than the FL market. I would pivot to a 33 GW express or 345 Pursuit. Would do everything you want minus trailerable. Just my 2 cents.
thanks. one of my previous boats was a bigger Grady, total weight with fuel was about 10k. I didn’t mind towing, once i went to EOH brakes. This next boat will be bigger, but towable is a must-have. With the fisheries and regulations we have here in washington, you big boat may be moored where fishing is currently closed. No easy option to move it 200 miles north to where fishing is open. I’m still working full time, so I don’t have flexibility to wait for weather to get better If I’m up in Nootka Sound for a week fishing, or moving it from Ilwaco to Neah Bay. In order to justify the cost, I need to be able to use it a lot... I just sold what was going to be my retirement boat, because its so limiting not be able to get to where the fishing is.
still on the fence about the generator....about 7k to get a decent one. I need to figure out my amperage needs and figure out if a large, quality battery bank and an inverter will meet my needs.
good to hear about the Zipwakes. Probably move to the must-have list, and just add more Scopalamine to replace the Seakeeper...
 
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Tomictime

Crusty Old Salt
May 9, 2014
871
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Poverty Bay & Carlsbad
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Jim
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Boatless.....
i ran a 37’ Coldwater for 7 years all along BC coast WCVI and up to Rupert / Caamano. i had it on yard trailer, not really an over the road boat...can be done. Had many 6-10 day trips. 4 people, Diesel genset, 365 fuel, 35 fuel for the T-25, probably a better conversation than a long long post about requirements....my hull was number 13 of the 3700 CW and while stable now, they went thru a TON of learning...IF you have run the big Grady 33’ you probably understand a boat that size , fishing and crusing w gear an ice needs a lot of power, .....
but what BIG fun :-) adventure fishing.....PM if i can help, i know most of the aluminum guys and a few plastic builders.
Jim
 
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Walker Inc.

I Post A Lot But I Can't Edit This
Jun 24, 2013
3,063
7,097
Gig Harbor, WA
Name
Patrick Walker
Boat
33 ft. Coldwater Walkaround
Happy New Year!!
I’m in the market for a new boat since I just sold my Albin. The purpose of the boat would be for extended cruising and fishing trips. Offshore for tuna, halibut, salmon plus extended cruising trips up to desolation sound, rivers inlet, etc. comfortable for 6 people fishing and extended cruising for 2-3 people. Budget hopefully will be about 325-350K Tops.
I’ve been looking hard at a 2015 Kingfisher 3325 with Yamaha 350s. It has all the main features I want, except joystick steering. They are asking 295k, which is crazy. New they went for about 325. I can build a custom 32x11 pilot house with the features I need for about the same $$. Joystick control would likely be another 25k above that.
For those of you that have joystick controls, is it worth the money? Have you had issues with it?
The new build will have to have the following features:
-Trailerable
-forward standup head in V berth
-deep V (+20 degrees at transom)
-dinette in main cabin (possible quarter berth underneath)
-galley with stove, microwave/convection combo, sink and large refer
-captain chair, twin copilot chairs all suspension seats
-aft helm with main and kicker controls
-large fuel tank
-large waste and water tanks
-operating space for honda 2kw or onboard generator
-Diesel Hydrionic water/air heater
-electronics would include forward/aft MFDs, Radar, autopilot, AIS reciever,
-large fish wells with macerators
-roof davit and pot puller
-??
Options I’d like to get, but possibly cant afford:
-Optimus 360 joystick steering or similar
-Seakeeper or Quick MC2 gyro stabilizer
-zipwake trim tabs
-FLIR cameras
for those of you who have had custom builds, what was the features you added that you couldn’t live without, which were a waste of $$, or what should have added during the design?
I’ve discussed this build with many of the local builders already. I really like the high bow that the big kingfisher 3325 had, which is similar(identical) to the Ocean Roamer design. Interior of the two boats are also identical.
TIA,
Eric
First things first. The Kingfisher is the most poorly constructed pile of shit on the market. I would take a Hewes over a kingfisher. I dislike both. Shitty build, extrusions, weld quality, rigging, lack of structure etc. It’s a street whore with lipstick who looks good from 10 feet away with your glasses off.

Optimus/joysticks/helmaster. -not needed. GIMMICK at best. I can do anything and more with my twin outboards and some line handling skills than any seizure looking spastic flailing hi-rev gear slamming high speed shit show will accomplish. Put some wind and current on them and they are even worse. I have installed and tuned 4 of these systems now with twins to quads. Useless. The spot lock feature works to an extent. The electric power steering side of it is nice for running. The maneuverability is not there in less than perfect conditions. They failure points are mind blowing. You can ratchet strap a bait rod to a cowl and open the relief valves in the pumps and steer the boat if it goes into fault mode.

I would spend half the money on a large bow thruster, not the minimum one the salesman rattles off to get you to bite. I want one that pushes the bow around with authority in a 25 knot breeze, not one that mixes your drink.

Furuno or Raymarine on the electronics side of things.
Furuno/TimeZero is the only true bathymeteic bottom mapping system with bottom hardness detection algorithems t

Not sure on the zip wake system, never seen it or used it. Stick to Yamaha, Honda, or Suzuki. Dealer network and parts availibity is good around here.

Sea keepers are garbage. They rip boats apart. Destroy running gear, and delaminate hulls. I can only imagine they will do the same in an aluminum boat to structure, and this only happens if they work. Lots of lawsuits. Build a boat with the right mix of chine and deadrise and it’s not needed. They mask hull imperfections.

crozier, allied, Coldwater, and north river are the most custom builders around that will build what you want on a hull that is proven.

good luck. Just my 2 cents from being around these boats 25 years and working on them for a libing
 
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Hot_Pursuit

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Jun 21, 2013
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325
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Seabeck
Name
Eric
Boat
2009 Albin 32TE
First things first. The Kingfisher is the most poorly constructed pile of shit on the market. I would take a Hewes over a kingfisher. I dislike both. Shitty build, extrusions, weld quality, rigging, lack of structure etc. It’s a street whore with lipstick who looks good from 10 feet away with your glasses off.
Optimus/joysticks/helmaster. -not needed. GIMMICK at best. I can do anything and more with my twin outboards and some line handling skills than any seizure looking spastic flailing hi-rev gear slamming high speed shit show will accomplish. Put some wind and current on them and they are even worse. I have installed and tuned 4 of these systems now with twins to quads. Useless. The spot lock feature works to an extent. The electric power steering side of it is nice for running. The maneuverability is not there in less than perfect conditions. I would spend half the money on a large bow thruster, not the minimum one the salesman rattles off to get you to bite. I want one that pushes the bow around with authority in a 25 knot breeze, not one that mixes your drink.
Furuno or Raymarine on the electronics side of things. Furuno/TimeZero is the only true bathymeteic bottom mapping system with bottom hardness detection al
Thanks. Everyone bashes kingfishers..mostly paint issues, some quality control, etc. But I’ve never heard from someone who actually has owned one of the bigger boats who doesn’t like it..owners say they have some issues, but the seaworthiness and handling make up for the paint/rigging issues. I know they spot weld, use caulk and bondo, then paint over it all. They made the Kingfisher 3325 from 2010 to 2018, and there‘s only one for sale in the US and Canada. I figured if they were a POS people would be dumping them left and right. I haven’t heard of their boats sinking more than any other boat. I found two older Coldwaters for sale, but only one 3325?? Are owners embarrassed they paid so much for shit, and just keep them in their yard because they are unsafe? Serious questions.
I had twin outboards on my Grady but no bow thruster. I could spin circles in its own length, but couldn’t move sideways into the wind. I would love to hear from people who have paid for Joystick control, and decided it was a total waste of money. Either due to lack of capability, or cost of maintaining. Thanks for the comments!
 
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Hot_Pursuit

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Eric
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2009 Albin 32TE
Talk to Bo Palmer, you want aluminum, do a ALLIED, he will build you what you want, keep the money local.
Thanks.
I’ve talked to most of the local builders. Allied, Raider, Crozier, Silverback..inquiry to Coldwater. I think they all build really awesome boats, some more fishing centric than others. All have people building who have been in the business for a long time. Most are close to the same price point, some more custom than others. The Ocean Sport Roamer is my ideal boat, just outside of my budget. I’m looking for that boat, built in aluminum..
If I get a boat built, it will be local. Just have to find who will get me the most boat for my buck.
 
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