Red diamond Rattlesnake.....

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bajaandy

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Dr. Oliver W. Johnson, Emeritus Professor, Herpetology, NAU. And yes, that advice was give some 10 plus years ago, and I am sure was tempered by the fact that his daughter and grandson were the potential victims of a rattle snake bite. But ya know what? He still feels the same way today.
 
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Jeff Lemm

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Thanks - I'm sure he was talking about western diamondbacks and mojave, which are very common there. A far cry from our situation. The risk in killing is as much or more than moving...to each his own
 
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?? fisherman

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Your not gonna make any friends here bud... and most likely get booted...
and you forgot ASSHAT to all your hugger titles... new member joined today....:rofl::rofl:

Damn Gary, alot of anger coming from you lately!? The guy is entitled to express his opinion, which he is doing rather polietly and keeping his cool. Ya gotta remember the guys profession and the way he makes a living is with reptiles, so to jump this guys shit and call him names just because he is trying to give his own take on killing them is kind of stooping low.

I don't agree at all with these Red Rattlesnakes needing to be on some protected list though, and it makes me wonder how they even came to this conclusion in thinking that they really need to be. Kind of reminds me (in a different way) of our current sea lion situation.

Nobody has to agree with his take, but the name calling and verbal assaults are exactly what nearly always makes a thread go to shit.

The guy is going out of his way to be cool, so try doing the same, because not everyone here has to always agree or share the same opinion.

The unknown fisherman:p:
 
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bajaandy

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Thanks - I'm sure he was talking about western diamondbacks and mojave, which are very common there. A far cry from our situation. The risk in killing is as much or more than moving...to each his own

No, I'm sure you're not sure what he was talking about. You ought not make assumptions. He was specifically referring to the snakes that are endemic to the Southern California area, specifically those in my location, including the western diamondback and mojave, as well as the red diamond and the speckled, all of which are known to occur in San Diego county. And you are indeed correct, to each his own. I maintain that the risk in killing is FAR less than moving when the snake is on the receiving end of a shot shell.

Carry on.
 
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ConSeaMate

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rare my ass...these things are all over the place........one of the ones I killed last year was the biggest rattler I have ever seen.......and If I wasn't carrying a black trash bag at the time it probably would have got me......but the bag blocked it's heat sink....
 
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ConSeaMate

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Guys, like others have said Red Diamonds are protected in California. I can't stop you from killing them if you feel like they're posing a threat, but you might want to think twice about making it this public
You show me a regulation that says you can not kill one on your own property or keep your opinion to yourself..........
 
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Jeff Lemm

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baajandy - no worries, I gotcha. In Esco (if you are still there or there when he was speaking to you), there are no Mohaves or W. Diamondbacks. He was most likely referring to SoPacs, which there are a number of and they can be irascible. Today you will be hard-pressed to find an academic who will tell you to risk any encounter with a rattler.

ConSea, reds are not endangered, but can be rare in many areas. They are protected from take (just this year,as I said above) and are a Species of Special Concern. They have a limited range and you just happen to be in that range. Keep carrying the black seabag for protection, lol
 
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rdrrm8e

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Not that Mr. Lemm could or would have a child...or even live in a "Snake habitat"....... But what would he do if a red was crawling up to his kid's stroller...or his wife (or lover) on a picanic binkie?
 
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Jeff Lemm

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I have 3 children, we have rattlers in our yard (2 species, including reds) and my entire family is well-versed in rattlesnake safety...oh, so is my dog
 
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ConSeaMate

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Characteristics of the Red Diamond Rattlesnake
Heavy bodied with a stout tail and typically light to dark reddish brown in hue, the red diamond rattlesnake's distinguishing features include:

  • Adult Size and Weight: Typically, the snake measures about 2 ½ to 3 ½ feet in length, although rarely, it may reach 5 feet in length. A large one may weigh several pounds. The male's tail is thicker than the female's tail, according to the U. S. Geological Survey.
  • Color and Pattern: Born grayish in color, the snake develops a more reddish color as it matures. Classically, its back bears diamond-shaped blotches framed with light edges. Like the other diamondbacks, its tail is encircled with black and white rings.
  • Head and Face: The snake's triangular-shaped head spans about twice the width of its neck. It eyes have vertical, elliptically-shaped pupils. They are bracketed with light stripes that extend diagonally down the face. Its loreal pits lie just below and behind the nostrils.
  • Fangs: The adult has a matched pair of hollow fangs, each about ½-inch in length, that unfold from the roof of the mouth to deliver a bite. The fangs serve as hypodermic syringes to inject venom from glands, located behind the eyes, into a victim's tissue. Lost fangs are rapidly replaced by new fangs.
  • Rattles: The snake's rattles comprise nested modified scales. A new rattle is added with each molt. Old rattles sometimes break off. The total number of rattles varies during the year.
  • Senses: The snake has acute senses of smell and heat detection, a good sense of vision, and high awareness of vibrations (which helps compensate for its lack of hearing). Most notably, the snake, usually a hunter of the night, smells prey by using its forked tongue to collect minute odor particles from its surrounding environment and delivering them to the highly sensitive specialized smelling organ – the Jacobson's organ – in the roof of its mouth. It can effectively "see" and strike its prey, even in absolute darkness, by using its loreal pits to form a "heat image" in the brain. After a strike, it can then use its tongue and Jacobson's organ to track a dying prey trying to escape through the darkness, even in a pitch-black den.
  • Communication: Like its close kin, the snake rattles and may hiss to warn an intruder of its presence. The female leaves scent marks in the fall to guide offspring to the family communal denning site, where several members may gather for the winter.
  • Strike and Bite: Usually the snake, with a flash of swiftness, strikes its prey from ambush. As it strikes, according to the Arizona-Sonora Desert Museum, it unfolds the fangs "to an erect position, somewhat perpendicular to the jaw line" then drives them into the flesh of the victim, sending its poison home. Even a newborn arrives with fangs and toxin, fully prepared for hunting and defense.
  • The Venom and Its Effects: Although the red diamond rattlesnake's venom is less toxic than that of other rattlers, said the U. S. Geological Survey's Southwest Biological Science Center, the fully mature adult can deliver a large amount of venom—indeed, more than three times the dose that could kill a human. The venom produces intense localized pain, massive swelling, discoloration and blood degeneration as well as nausea, vomiting and various other symptoms. The venom, dried and stored, retains almost its full toxicity for well over two decades. Fortunately, red diamond rattlesnake bites occur infrequently.
So your kids and dogs know how to avoid an ambush?....now your just talking like a fu#%ing idiot......
 
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ConSeaMate

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Dog ever go out at night to pee or poop?....these guys hunt at night.....but you knew that.....
 
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tanner.s

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I don't really care if people choose to kill rattlers but the rabbits are wayyyy overpopulated in the canyons on either side of my house and I'd rather see them die than the rattlers. Snake defense products work, especially the low plastic fences that bury a bit into the ground. I've watched a rattler brush against it for the length of my property and move on. But I'm sure I'm in the minority and only release them because of my passion for reptiles. I actually nursed one of the smaller rattlers back to health when I was young and released it, probably not one of my brightest moments.

Either way, if they are not posing a threat and are on their way out of your yard, I'd urge you to let them be as they do 10000x more good than bad for our ecosystems. If they are being aggressive, do what you want, cut the fucker down lol.
 
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?? fisherman

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Today you will be hard-pressed to find an academic who will tell you to risk any encounter with a rattler.

And that's where I think you are missing some of these guys point. They are killing the snake to do exactly what you just said....... risk an encounter with one. Or to make it clearer, once the encounter has been made, then they are going about their business and dispatching of the snake to decrease any further encounter.

The methods used by most here are pretty easy to carry out without any problems, and I'm pretty certain you know that.

ConSea, reds are not endangered, but can be rare in many areas.
LOL Of course they are going to be rare in other areas, and the same could be said for many (most) other living things.


They are protected from take (just this year,as I said above) and are a Species of Special Concern.
"Species of Special Concern" Like I said, would that be like our protected California Sea Lions?

I'm no reptile expert, but I know of people who live in areas where they see these Red Rattlers (like the one shown in Franks picture) every year, and quite a few at that. We may be a bunch of fisherman here, but were not completely stupid......... those Red Rattlers are alive and doing very well here in So Cal. Somebody pulled the wool over a few peoples eyes when putting these on the protected species list, but it's not likely to happen here. :D

The unknown fisherman:p:
 
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Jeff Lemm

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Again, we all have our opinions on the matter (and I appreciate yours). What i do know is the number of very nasty injuries I see every year people sustain from trying to kill snakes. I also wanted to let people know about the regs. What it seems is that everyone here is dead-locked and I'm trying to get a simple point across. I can remain calm (not dead-locked in my opinion that everyone else is wrong) and not resort to freaking out because I deal with this subject daily. Did you even read where I said their range is restricted as is the habitats in which they live? This can all be easily researched, don't take my word for it. I know the fishing and hunting community well and it always results in "someone pulling the wool over the eyes"...not so, there are too many people and not enough habitat

edit - just saw the sea lion comment - they are protected by the marine mammal act, not like SSC species
 
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ConSeaMate

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Like I said.....Post this regulation up or shut up..........post the regulation that says I can not kill this snake on my property.........and you also never answered how you trained your kids to protect themselves from a snake they don't see and hunts by ambush.......
 
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blubby07

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Frank, nice kill!
If i had your property i would have done the same thing to protect myself, sylvia and dogs!
Btw thanks for your advice on that boat, it's coming along really well!
See you soon!
 
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prolinegd

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I agree that there are too many people, but there is plenty of habitat.
The pulling the wool over peoples eyes is often calling a species endangered to close off areas for public use.
I don't have stats, but I'd bet the snake bites to people, dogs, horses and other livestock is a lot higher than the bites to people trying to kill/ move the snakes.
 
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ConSeaMate

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Interesting Facts
The red diamond rattlesnakes venom increases in toxicity at the animal matures. "Tissue damaging properties of venom," said the University of California at Davis, "are 6 – 15 times greater in adults than juveniles.
 
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Jeff Lemm

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Like I said.....Post this regulation up or shut up..........post the regulation that says I can not kill this snake on my property.........and you also never answered how you trained your kids to protect themselves from a snake they don't see and hunts by ambush.......

I have already commented on that a n umber of times. Look above, I said that if it is a threat, DFW probably won't have an issue with you killing a red on your property (but they usually are not a threat, quite mild for a rattlesnake actually)

Re: training my kids - the snakes are not hard to see - they are red and get close to 6 feet in length. My kids are very in to field/reptiles - we look for reptiles every chance we get. My oldest son, as an 8 year old, showed the neighbor how to use a snake hook to remove a rattler from his yard. It is all about education. Rattlesnakes do not hunt humans, thus I am not too worried about one ambushing my kids, lol

There is not plenty of habitat - it has to be the right kind of habitat. Those useless introduced grasslands do nothing at all for the species that lived there when it was coastal sage scrub. You old-timers remember coastal horned lizards? They are also sage scrub specialists - when that is gone, so are they.

There are roughly 50 snake bites to humans per year in SD - most of those are dry bites (no venom - snakes meter their venom and rarely use it in defensive strikes; they need to save it for prey), but 95% of them are from people trying to catch/kill snakes. Dogs get bitten all the time because they are not very smart...but one rattlesnake training and they learn immediately. Horses and other livestock are rarely affected by rattlers.
 
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Carl

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rare my ass...these things are all over the place........one of the ones I killed last year was the biggest rattler I have ever seen.......and If I wasn't carrying a black trash bag at the time it probably would have got me......but the bag blocked it's heat sink....

Hmmmmmmmmmmm

Note to self: Next time you cruise over to Franks bring a big box of white trash bags; and let nature take it's course. :devil:
 
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tanner.s

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I forgot to mention, my eldest dog was bitten by a rattlesnake in the parking lot that was installed IN the canyon next to my house. This is an example of our encroachment on their native land along with the consequences that follow and I do agree that they do not have enough habitat. If they did, we wouldn't see them everyday in our yards.
 
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