Recommendation for mono top shot lbs test to braids for Bluefin knife jigs

[gatophattai]

Dear forum members, for bluefin knife or flat fall jigs fishing, I would like to get advice on what lbs test monofilament as top shot to go between braids and my 4 ft of 200 lbs flurocarbon leader with ball bearing swivel on top and split ring at the bottom for attach knife jig. My plan is to use about 25 ft of mono top shot for shock absortion purpose. Also Sam De La Torre of Island Fishing Tackle in the Friedman Adventures youtube video had a good point is that the mono top shot wil give him a good indication how far down is the fish once he see the mono.
I have the following 2 reels set up:
1) Shimano Talica 25II with already loaded with 500 yards of 130 lbs test of Power Pro Depth Hunter solid braid. The question is should I use Izorline 135 lbs, or Trilene/Jinkai, or Momoi 130lbs, or 120 lbs Ande clear or pink mono leader, or 100 lbs Izorline mono leader line?
I pair this reel with Phenix HAX-C 760X4H rated for 80 - 200 lbs with Moderate Fast action rating. Any comment of this pairing?

2) Shimano Talica 20Ii with already loaded with 430 yds of 100 lbs test of Izorline Izorline Brutally Strong Multi Color solid braid. The question is should I use 100 lbs or 80 lbs mono leader?
I pair this reel with Phenix HAX-C 760X3H rated for 60 - 130 lbs with Moderate Fast action rating. Any comment of this pairing?

I have heard people mentioned that the top shot should be of lbs test line class lower than the main braided lbs test line class. What is the rationale for it, since the overall line strength is reduced to the lower lbs rated line of the top shot?
For bluefin knife jig fishing, the biggest problem is the tangle at the boat which involve the braided line instead of the top shot line unless the fish is less than 25 ft from the boat. For tangle survival purpose, would it be better to have stronger top shot?

Since these reels are loaded with braids already, I don't have room to put a lot of of mono top shot on the reel. Thanks ahead for answering my question.

 

[djek81]

I understand the rationale of the shock absorption purpose. But I stopped using mono for the big BFT when I lost a cow due to mono and flouro carbon connection failure. I tripled checked and had a deckhand check my connections on the boat. The more connections the greater the chance to fail.

 

[Desert fishing]

Go straight to braid . Tie a double san diego to the swivel.

 

[gatophattai]

I understand the rationale of the shock absorption purpose. But I stopped using mono for the big BFT when I lost a cow due to mono and flouro carbon connection failure. I tripled checked and had a deckhand check my connections on the boat. The more connections the greater the chance to fail.

What knot did you use?

Go straight to braid . Tie a double san diego to the swivel.

How many wraps do you use for the double San Diego Jam knot?

 

[Desert fishing]

I tie it with 5 on 130lb. And 7 on anything below that.

 

[djek81]

The deckhand recommend a double uni. Other than increasing the chance to fail, a thick mono will affect your jig. I would use braid to flouro or braid to mono. Make it simple.

 

[gatophattai]

I ask this question on the topic of "Bluefin deep jigging with mono top shot or without? on 4/2/2023. The majority of advices told me to use mono top shot.

Bluefin deep jigging with mono top shot or without?

Bluefin deep jigging with mono top shot or without? Dear forum members, for bluefin night, early morning, and dusk deep jigging with knife or flat fall jigs, I am not sure about whether I should add mono top shot between braids and my jig leader...

www.bdoutdoors.com

 

[surfgoose]

Your tackle is VERY strong. The issue of using mono for shock goes away if you just resist the temptation to go full drag during the fight, especially at the last. If you expect the fish to go ballistic when it sees the hull looming over it, and have NOT gone to full drag because you are tired and just want the fight to be over, and instead are just adding a thumb lightly as you lift while fully expecting to have the fish make another surge or two or three, you will not be pulling the hook with too much force.

 

[djek81]

I ask this question on the topic of "Bluefin deep jigging with mono top shot or without? on 4/2/2023. The majority of advices told me to use mono top shot.

Bluefin deep jigging with mono top shot or without?

Bluefin deep jigging with mono top shot or without? Dear forum members, for bluefin night, early morning, and dusk deep jigging with knife or flat fall jigs, I am not sure about whether I should add mono top shot between braids and my jig leader...

www.bdoutdoors.com

and most of them use mono or flouro.

 

[gatophattai]

Your tackle is VERY strong. The issue of using mono for shock goes away if you just resist the temptation to go full drag during the fight, especially at the last. If you expect the fish to go ballistic when it sees the hull looming over it, and have NOT gone to full drag because you are tired and just want the fight to be over, and instead are just adding a thumb lightly as you lift while fully expecting to have the fish make another surge or two or three, you will not be pulling the hook with too much force.

The max drag on the Talica 25 and 20 is 44 lbs. What drag setting would you use without top shot as compromise between the higher drag setting and more time fighting the fish which increases the chance of losing the fish due to various factors?

 

[surfgoose]

Personally I never go past Strike (other than the light thumb that I mentioned) and I never set Strike higher than twenty pounds. But I'm a geezer who has no qualms any more about taking five or ten minutes more in a fight.

I've been in a lot of fights with big fish over the decades, and witnessed a hundred more. Many more fish are lost at the end game by trying too hard to end it than by taking it careful.

I assume that you set your drag with a scale. Set twenty pounds on your reel with a scale and tie your line to something very heavy and low but moveable, such as a 64 quart ice chest (not roller) filled up with water. Then pull on your tackle. And ask yourself how much harder do you want to work? You may be a young, very strong guy and capable of a lot more force than I can generate.

I learned to fight big fish with smarts by fishing alongside Dennis Braid and watching him whip fish literally twice his size. He did it with leverage and smarts, and never let an anxious crewman talk him into rushing a fish that wasn't ready. So when I have a nice fish at color and I have a crewman telling me to "Pull! Pull!" if I can feel that it is still anxious and spooked I smile and say, "It's going to run again in a moment. You can go help someone else for five minutes."

You can tell when they are whipped, and ready to be gaffed.

 

[Rubberhook2]

I like Basil's work...and use 100 feet of Izorline mono with a loop to loop connection...

130 and 100.....

 

[gatophattai]

Personally I never go past Strike (other than the light thumb that I mentioned) and I never set Strike higher than twenty pounds. But I'm a geezer who has no qualms any more about taking five or ten minutes more in a fight.

I've been in a lot of fights with big fish over the decades, and witnessed a hundred more. Many more fish are lost at the end game by trying too hard to end it than by taking it careful.

I assume that you set your drag with a scale. Set twenty pounds on your reel with a scale and tie your line to something very heavy and low but moveable, such as a 64 quart ice chest (not roller) filled up with water. Then pull on your tackle. And ask yourself how much harder do you want to work? You may be a young, very strong guy and capable of a lot more force than I can generate.

I learned to fight big fish with smarts by fishing alongside Dennis Braid and watching him whip fish literally twice his size. He did it with leverage and smarts, and never let an anxious crewman talk him into rushing a fish that wasn't ready. So when I have a nice fish at color and I have a crewman telling me to "Pull! Pull!" if I can feel that it is still anxious and spooked I smile and say, "It's going to run again in a moment. You can go help someone else for five minutes."

You can tell when they are whipped, and ready to be gaffed.

Thanks, surfgoose for the excellent advice. You have a great point in setting the drag at 20 lbs from max of 44 lbs. The lower drag setting will let the line out and absorb any sudden shocks. I am old and have small size so I will need to learn to fight smart and be patient with fish. Will take chance with tangles and pulled hook with longer fight time.
Should I tie my 130 and 100 lbs braid to swivel of leader with double San Diego Jam knot with 6 wraps? For slippery braid, would 6 wraps be enough?

 

[surfgoose]

Personally, I tie a modified Albright (which has about six newer names because people adjust it slightly: Tony Pena, Alberto, etc.) to ten to forty yards of fluorocarbon, and then if the fluoro is sixty pounds test or heavier I crimp using double-sleeve crimps to connect to swivel or clips. Under sixty pounds test I use the Trilene version of the improved clinch knot, where the line goes twice through the eye before the knot is tied.

Knots are VERY personal. I know and sometimes tie the San Diego Jam and a half-dozen other fine knots. There is nothing wrong with any of them. Neither is there any significant advantage that I have found. If you tie a knot carefully, and wet it before cinching it tightly, it comes down to being able to get your fingers to work properly when you are cold and tired and yet excited because a bite is taking place and you are NOT in the water.

 

[mberggre]

Dear forum members, for bluefin knife or flat fall jigs fishing, I would like to get advice on what lbs test monofilament as top shot to go between braids and my 4 ft of 200 lbs flurocarbon leader with ball bearing swivel on top and split ring at the bottom for attach knife jig. My plan is to use about 25 ft of mono top shot for shock absortion purpose. Also Sam De La Torre of Island Fishing Tackle in the Friedman Adventures youtube video had a good point is that the mono top shot wil give him a good indication how far down is the fish once he see the mono.
I have the following 2 reels set up:
1) Shimano Talica 25II with already loaded with 500 yards of 130 lbs test of Power Pro Depth Hunter solid braid. The question is should I use Izorline 135 lbs, or Trilene/Jinkai, or Momoi 130lbs, or 120 lbs Ande clear or pink mono leader, or 100 lbs Izorline mono leader line?
I pair this reel with Phenix HAX-C 760X4H rated for 80 - 200 lbs with Moderate Fast action rating. Any comment of this pairing?

2) Shimano Talica 20Ii with already loaded with 430 yds of 100 lbs test of Izorline Izorline Brutally Strong Multi Color solid braid. The question is should I use 100 lbs or 80 lbs mono leader?
I pair this reel with Phenix HAX-C 760X3H rated for 60 - 130 lbs with Moderate Fast action rating. Any comment of this pairing?

I have heard people mentioned that the top shot should be of lbs test line class lower than the main braided lbs test line class. What is the rationale for it, since the overall line strength is reduced to the lower lbs rated line of the top shot?
For bluefin knife jig fishing, the biggest problem is the tangle at the boat which involve the braided line instead of the top shot line unless the fish is less than 25 ft from the boat. For tangle survival purpose, would it be better to have stronger top shot?

Since these reels are loaded with braids already, I don't have room to put a lot of of mono top shot on the reel. Thanks ahead for answering my question.

Sam is giving you good advice. It makes no difference if you're going to use 80, 100, or 130 to connect to a knife jig with a ball bearing swivel and a heavy leader. Even if you're fishing 40-45lbs of drag at full, you can't pull hard enough to break an 80# mono topshot or a floro leader.

I personally like fishing loop to loop connections with hollow. I don't like a knot going through my guides at color. If you don't know how to set up that connection, reach out to Sam. He's the person that taught me to make my own wind-ons 10 years ago.

 

[gatophattai]

Personally, I tie a modified Albright (which has about six newer names because people adjust it slightly: Tony Pena, Alberto, etc.) to ten to forty yards of fluorocarbon, and then if the fluoro is sixty pounds test or heavier I crimp using double-sleeve crimps to connect to swivel or clips. Under sixty pounds test I use the Trilene version of the improved clinch knot, where the line goes twice through the eye before the knot is tied.

Knots are VERY personal. I know and sometimes tie the San Diego Jam and a half-dozen other fine knots. There is nothing wrong with any of them. Neither is there any significant advantage that I have found. If you tie a knot carefully, and wet it before cinching it tightly, it comes down to being able to get your fingers to work properly when you are cold and tired and yet excited because a bite is taking place and you are NOT in the water.

Hi surfgoose, I am confused now when you mentioned 10-40 yards of fluorcarbon. Do you suggest that you would use flurocarbon top shot instead of mono top shot? I thought your recommendation is to tied braid directly to swivel of knife jig leader.

 

[Jurel Hunter]

100 lb for tac 25, 80 lb for tac 20. fg knot to connect to braid, and sd jam to connect to bite leader. if u have any doubts in your knot tying, ask deck hand. no shame in that game and not worth losing a fish. u lose free spool after about 25 lbs drag w those reels so I would set it there and not worry about breaking either line from drag. but if u get hung up under boat or in a tangle, better to break off at mono, so go one line class lower.

the shock leader is optional for nite jigging, esp if u have longer rail rod that can absorb headshakes in the tip. however i would suggest a 10-25 ft 80 lb flouro shock leader on your tac 20, so when sun comes up, you can cut off nite jig leader n use setup as sinker rig or daytime jig setup.

 

[surfgoose]

Hi surfgoose, I am confused now when you mentioned 10-40 yards of fluorcarbon. Do you suggest that you would use flurocarbon top shot instead of mono top shot? I thought your recommendation is to tied braid directly to swivel of knife jig leader.

In a short topshot there isn't a significant difference in stretch between fluoro and mono. But fluorocarbon sinks easier, and I like that for using bait. When adding a jig leader to the fluoro I use really heavy mono because it is more abrasion-resistant and it is nighttime anyway or for yellowtail I am ripping the lure so fast that it is a reaction bite.

 

[red_teppin]

25’ of clear Izorline First String 100 and 80 mono to leader. It’s very tough and abrasion resistant line.

I like to make my bite leaders 3’ long. It’s long enough for bite protection while still being short enough to easily cast and stow on the rod.

Knot tying and rigging is a skill. Whenever I learn a new knot or rig, I practice and test at home until I am 100% confident.

 

[909MARIO]

Go straight to braid . Tie a double san diego to the swivel.

Double San Diego is not the strongest connection. You can do better. Check "knot wars" on YouTube and see the results against the Palomar and Trilene knots. However if he uses hollow braid he can serve a loop on the end. Then the loop gets a larksfoot over a welded ring or swivel on the leader.

Double San Diego is really good but there are better knots.

 

[909MARIO]

Personally I never go past Strike (other than the light thumb that I mentioned) and I never set Strike higher than twenty pounds. But I'm a geezer who has no qualms any more about taking five or ten minutes more in a fight.

I've been in a lot of fights with big fish over the decades, and witnessed a hundred more. Many more fish are lost at the end game by trying too hard to end it than by taking it careful.

I assume that you set your drag with a scale. Set twenty pounds on your reel with a scale and tie your line to something very heavy and low but moveable, such as a 64 quart ice chest (not roller) filled up with water. Then pull on your tackle. And ask yourself how much harder do you want to work? You may be a young, very strong guy and capable of a lot more force than I can generate.

I learned to fight big fish with smarts by fishing alongside Dennis Braid and watching him whip fish literally twice his size. He did it with leverage and smarts, and never let an anxious crewman talk him into rushing a fish that wasn't ready. So when I have a nice fish at color and I have a crewman telling me to "Pull! Pull!" if I can feel that it is still anxious and spooked I smile and say, "It's going to run again in a moment. You can go help someone else for five minutes."

You can tell when they are whipped, and ready to be gaffed.

Best advice on here so far. Most don't use a scale, they go by "feel". Listen to everything this guy's suggested, excellent advice.

 

[Sailing La Reina]

Skip the mono. Tie your leader swivel straight to braid using a Double San Diego knot. When you’re fishing, you want your jig to get down fast. Mono floats so it will slow the jig down. Mo fasta = mo bettah.

 

[gatophattai]

100 lb for tac 25, 80 lb for tac 20. fg knot to connect to braid, and sd jam to connect to bite leader. if u have any doubts in your knot tying, ask deck hand. no shame in that game and not worth losing a fish. u lose free spool after about 25 lbs drag w those reels so I would set it there and not worry about breaking either line from drag. but if u get hung up under boat or in a tangle, better to break off at mono, so go one line class lower.

the shock leader is optional for nite jigging, esp if u have longer rail rod that can absorb headshakes in the tip. however i would suggest a 10-25 ft 80 lb flouro shock leader on your tac 20, so when sun comes up, you can cut off nite jig leader n use setup as sinker rig or daytime jig setup.

Thanks Jurel Hunter for the advices. I do have Seaguar Blue label flurocarbon leader of 100 lbs for the Talica 25ii with 130 lbs braid and 80 lbs for the Talica 20ii with 100 lbs braid. I am familiar with RP knot so I will use the RP knot to tie my solid braid to 25 ft of fluorocarbon top shot. I do like the adivce for the Talica 20 to use as sinker rig for day time set up since it already 25 ft of top shot fluorocarbon. I also have another set up for sinker rig with Phenix HAX-C 720X2H rated 40 - 100 lbs and Talica 16ii with 400 yds of 80 lbs Power Pro Depth Hunter solid braid. Should I tied 25 ft of 60 lbs Seaguar Blue label fluorocarbon directly to braid for sinker rig without any mono top shot?

 

[gatophattai]

In a short topshot there isn't a significant difference in stretch between fluoro and mono. But fluorocarbon sinks easier, and I like that for using bait. When adding a jig leader to the fluoro I use really heavy mono because it is more abrasion-resistant and it is nighttime anyway or for yellowtail I am ripping the lure so fast that it is a reaction bite.

Thanks surfgoose for all the advices. In summary of all of your comments, I try to summarize as follows fpr night time bluefin jigging:
1) 10 to 40 yards of fluorcarbon as top shot using modified Albright/Tony Pena/Alberto knot to tie to braid main line. No option for loop to loop connection using hollow braid since I only has solid braid as main line.
Is it ok to set up as follows for fluorocarbon line strength?
Flurocarbon of 100 lbs for the Talica 25ii with 130 lbs braid main line
Flurocarbon of 80 lbs for the Talica 20ii with 100 lbs braid main line
2) Using double sleeve crimp to connect fluorcarbon to swivel of bite leader for line rated higher than 60 lbs.
3) Heavy mono for bite leader.
I do have bite leader set up with about 4 ft of 300 lbs mono, 200 lbs mono, and 200 lbs flurocarbon. Should 200 lbs strong enough for bite leader?

The main reason for using fluorcarbon instead of mono for connection betweeb braid and bite leader is as follows:
1) Fluorcarbon line sinks better than monofilament line
2) Using 10-40 yards of fluorocarbon top shot instead of mono top shot for easy of switching the set up from night time knife jig to sinker rig for day time bite

Are my understanding of your rationales correct or you have other reasons for the mentioned above set up?

 

[gatophattai]

Double San Diego is not the strongest connection. You can do better. Check "knot wars" on YouTube and see the results against the Palomar and Trilene knots. However if he uses hollow braid he can serve a loop on the end. Then the loop gets a larksfoot over a welded ring or swivel on the leader.

Double San Diego is really good but there are better knots.

Hi 909Mario, I looked at testing results from Toit Fishing for comparing San Diego Jam, Palomar, and Trilene knot for fluorocarbon line. Mr. Toit testing method is scientific and comprehensive. Please take a look at the following link on Youtube which has the comparison testing results and let me know what you think.
San Diego Jam Knot Tested | World’s Strongest Fishing Knot | Episode 8