Probably doesn’t belong here but…might lose sportfishing

af dreamer

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Apr 16, 2007
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Im told the boats would have to be dry stacked and have to use Def.First of all there are no Tier 4 engines im told for marine application yet.The state could very well run the hobby out of existence.SUCKS!Tom
 
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ahidog

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    Im told the boats would have to be dry stacked and have to use Def.First of all there are no Tier 4 engines im told for marine application yet.The state could very well run the hobby out of existence.SUCKS!Tom
    That’s exactly it retrofitting will changed stability which in turn will reduce number of passengers which will then raise ticket prices.
     
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    tunakillerjoe1

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  • Jul 24, 2017
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    More dumbass regulations with no consideration of how far reaching the effect is. I read the article in the paper this morning. Reminded me of microstamping, and removing parking and adding bike lanes. Sad CARB leadership...we need to stand by the fleet and contact our so called representitives.
     
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    skrilla

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    Adapt or die

    Prices for these just went up!
    thumb_720_450_Steamboatdreamstime_l_79079764.jpg
     
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    Phishy Phil

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    I really doubt that CARB has a category for "Wood fired, steam propelled paddlewheelers"..... but I don't think that they would like it.
     
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    watersdeep

    I CATCH IT. I KILL IT. I CLEAN IT. I DON'T DELIVER
  • Jan 19, 2016
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    CERTAINLY WILL NOT BE NEEDING A FISHING LICENSE THEN WILL WE!!!!
    OR A POOP ON THE SIDEWALK LIC.
    OR I WILL THROW MY TRASH WHERE EVERY THE FUCK I WANT LIC.
    KEEP VOTING DUMACRATE.
     
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    flytie

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    Read article might lose sportfishing if this isn’t stopped
    I don't agree with CARB wholly, let me preface that. However... What the sport fishing industry is doing is disingenuous.

    All other industries have had to comply with CARB laws if doing business in CA. It is the price of admission. Every single business with a truck, tractor, off road mining equipment, trains, etc has had to change out their old POS dirty diesel equipment for a cleaner burning engine. For SAC to have hid their head in the sand for this long and now to try to whip up public frenzy is BS. Their passengers voted for this by voting in Dems (edit: not me). These laws aren't new. These engines aren't new. SCR and DEF systems have been used in diesel engines since 2010 and are at the point of being very reliable and can be programmed to idle for long periods and regen on demand (tier 1 regen programming, look it up).

    I know first hand, CARB doesn't give a shit if SAC and sport fishing is in business. They want the engines changed and they will win out. Period. Hundreds, if not thousands of businesses have closed their doors because they couldn't comply with CARB laws. But that goes for every other law on the books as well. Can't pay your employees above board and provide insurance? Toast. No worker's comp? The same. In some ways it levels the playing field for those that operate above board to the dirty rotten ahole who doesn't.

    Both Cummins and John Deere have a tier 4 off road engine available. I know first hand that the Cummins engines are very reliable (don't know anything about the Deere engine). The fleet will have to change the way they operate the boat in order to adapt. Idle times will be less or programmed to regen on demand, but fuel economy will be much greater. DEF fluid will be a reality. Is doing a regen on a sport boat once a day really that big of a deal? Not really.

    The gov't has made grants available to repower for early adopters in every business category (off road, on road, port, farm, marine, etc). If these fools passed on that money, that is their fault.

    These rich old farts like Frank, Don, Donny and whatnot need to stop bitching and bite the bullet instead of using you all as pawns in a game they are going to lose. You are being played because they don't want to spend the money to do it right.

    Sorry folks. Turning the rant off. Flame away.
     
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    Thozguys
    Thozguys
    It is your mentality for the reason I left Kali. So while you are at it why dont you change all your appliances to electric. Change all your fossil fuel toys to biodegradable. That includes tires, oil, asphalt, etc... This is just another money grabbing method to remove your freedom, liberty, and lifestyle.
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    sickcat

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    That’s exactly it retrofitting will changed stability which in turn will reduce number of passengers which will then raise ticket prices.

    Because of drystacking?? Any change in stability will be very insignificant and its doubtful to affect passenger capacity.

    Flytie is spot on.

    The needed technology has been around for quite a few years and any needed tweeks to run it in a boat will be minor/easy.

    Considering what the air would be like without CARB doing their thing it is a necessary evil.

    If the sportfishing fleet didn't think the transition to cleaner engines wasn't going to happen to them they truly have had their heads in the sand.

    I'm old enough to remember the beginning of emission controls on cars here. It has been the same doom and gloom for every industry that has had to comply as it was with cars. Maybe you have noticed that every state follows similar standards for cars and that you can buy and drive a Hellcat that passes those standards. End of the world didn't happen.
     
    gecsr1
    gecsr1
    it is what it is,,, hope the transition goes smooth , I doubt very much it will be the end of sport fishing boats....
    we all need to play by the same rules....
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    mike mitchell

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    Jul 25, 2017
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    Just for clarity is dry stacking running the engine exhaust pipes through the deck and overhead? Like the Redondo Special? Great hand warmer.
     
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    flytie

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    Just checked and the CAT C18 engine that seems to be preferred by the SAC boats is available in Tier 4 as well. It just sounds like many of the boats may have repowered with a 2006 engine technology considered Tier 3, not the Tier 4 technology. The Shogun repowered with the wrong technology in or around 2014, and the draft rule for Tier 4 was started in 2004 and posted in 2012 by CARB (https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/msprog/offroad/orcomp/orcomp.htm).

    That is a very costly mistake by the business owner and they are asking you to go to bat for their lack of knowing their business and how it is regulated.
     
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    sickcat

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    Private boats are next.
    Next? I am sure you have noticed with 4-stroke OBs, common rail diesels and catalytic convertors on gassers that ship sailed years ago. Very unlikely they will come back and force an upgrade in recreational boats just like they have never done with cars.
     
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    Reel hip

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  • Feb 19, 2008
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    The sportfishing HAS been aware for years of the regulation.

    Most repowered on public funds the first go around that payed up to 80% of the cost of new motors.

    Still grants now, but they are not accepting them.... yet.

    Tub boats and all large commercial vessels have had to repower including commercial fishing vessels.

    They are playing us on this one... Sorry. If Sac waits too long the funds wont be available. Imagine how upset Frank will be if he has to sell his mansion in Point Loma.

     
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    california2

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    Trying to grasp the true implications.
    1. How much would these new engines/repairs costs on average per boat?
    2. These can be written off tax wise. All business incur these "unforseen costs". Lets see on average each boat out there running consistently gross "not accounting for all the other costs yet"... we deduct these costs of 1-2 years of their profits.


    Let's get the full picture if this is all true doom and gloom
     
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    ZZZZZ

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    Dec 11, 2003
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    Not enough notice. Some boats just repowered

    Never paid much attention to politics until the last 18 months. I belong to no political party. I'm totally confused how Team Newsom, Pelosi, Harris, Hunter, Biden, Hillary, Ocasio Cortez, Lori Lightfoot, Maxine Waters, Ted Wheeler, Cuamo, Michael Obama, Barack Obama, ect supporters. Can think these people are cool and good?
     
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    Phil mckracken

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    As soon as I land at lax Friday, I think I’ll take a shit on the sidewalk. Why not??
     
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    MYNomad

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    Trying to grasp the true implications.
    1. How much would these new engines/repairs costs on average per boat?
    2. These can be written off tax wise. All business incur these "unforseen costs". Lets see on average each boat out there running consistently gross "not accounting for all the other costs yet"... we deduct these costs of 1-2 years of their profits.


    Let's get the full picture if this is all true doom and gloom
    There have been plenty of articles on this issue. Costs are impossible to quantify because there are NO tier-4 marine engines of this size being produced. But the technology to achieve tier-4 compliance is not compatible with ships of this size.

    As for waiting for the bad news, that is a typical democrat response -- reminds me of Pelosi's comment about the horrors of Obummer Care -- "You can read the bill once we pass it." Time to get off that merry go round.
     
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    flytie

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    There have been plenty of articles on this issue. Costs are impossible to quantify because there are NO tier-4 marine engines of this size being produced. But the technology to achieve tier-4 compliance is not compatible with ships of this size.

    As for waiting for the bad news, that is a typical democrat response -- reminds me of Pelosi's comment about the horrors of Obummer Care -- "You can read the bill once we pass it." Time to get off that merry go round.

    There are plenty of engines out there that comply with Tier 4 standards. The issue is HP output that they want. In the diesel compliance world it is what you get that matters. In commercial trucks, the days of super high horse power and grabbing gears is over. It is now to torque, moderated HP and down speeding. The result is a more efficient but very capable vehicle that pollutes much less and uses less fuel.

    If every industry in CA has had to work with the changes and market segments in mining, tree harvesting, construction, grading/earth moving, plant harvesting, trains, trucks and other commercial ships didn't disappear, why is sport fishing immune?

    Simple question. Love to hear a simple answer. Because Franky says so? Doubtful.

    My guess is they made bad decisions by going Tier 3 (as proven above) and now have to pay the piper, again. They don't want to. Tough. Everyone else did.
     
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    california2
    Thats what I thought. Seems like no one wants to go that route also due to costs. Can someone confirm doesn't california cover most of the costs for commercial boats ? Otherwise worse case they can do a business deduction for new engines
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    Phishy Phil

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    My understanding is not that the Tier 4 engines do not produce enough horsepower, they are not being made in a small enough horsepower range (i.e., a size that will fit in the boat). Is anyone else knowledgeable on the subject?
     
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