Potential NOAA Bluefin Ban

john e.

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Aug 26, 2012
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alta loma
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john
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any
you fish whats available and do what you can to make it better! And be thankful that we get to enjoy our sport as often as we do!
 
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Bill W

tunaholic
Jan 12, 2006
4,998
5,790
66
Chino Hills, Ca.
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Bill Walsh
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Red Rooster
Personally have not fished bluefin since I target longer range fish. I felt last years bluefin bite was good for the fleet.
 

Redline

WFO
Oct 10, 2007
117
11
Whittier
Name
DK
Boat
Parker 2320
WWF and especially the CBD don't want fishing period. NOAA and NMFS will be sued by the radicals to stop the fishing. One of the arguments was to place a 50% catch limit on the annual take and then keep that figure as a binding number into the future. 50% of what??? There is virtually a non-existant commercial fleet in California. (Oregon and Washington don't fish for BFT commercially) 50% of nothing will leave us nothing. 44,000 spawning fish left? If Mexican seiners took half of that this year why are sportboat skippers saying they have NEVER seen so may BFT before? The whole rest of the Eastern Pacific school must be just off the coast of SD/LA. Get in line for next year's lottery to catch one of the 10 BFT we will be allowed to take.
 

HermosaJoe

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jul 31, 2010
1,267
124
Hermosa CA
I hate this stuff. The party is over. I'm glad I'm 62, instead of 22, because no 22-year-old will be fishing for any kind of ocean gamefish by the time he is my age.

We are politically and ideologically completely outgunned. We now have several generations of voters who were raised viewing animals on TV and in film talking to each other like people, and watching sea lions act like dogs at water parks.

Bambi, Nemo, Little Mermaid and her friends — you can chuckle all you want, but we have effectively trained the majority of our population, now isolated in urban areas where there is no REAL animal life, to empathize with the critters and to protect them at all costs. All the general public needs to hear is the siren call of their "experts" (with their socially constructed pseudo-scientific paradigms) to line up like lemmings and follow them off the cliff.

Can't catch BFT? Then I'll kill YFT? Won't let me catch YFT? Then I'll kill YT. Then bonito, then mackeral, then opaleye.

I'm gonna keep fishing 'till I can't. Just to say I did.

And, especially, because I love it so very much.
 

Chasntuna

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Aug 12, 2008
325
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South Carolina
Name
Brian
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The one I choose to ride.
BFT have always been a "bonus" when LR fishing and rarely a target species. I guess if one were to specificly target BFT, it might be a game changer. For me personally, like Hermosa Joe, I fish because I can; regardless of what the quarry is, because I love it and I'd bet there's a million others with that same thought. There's still YFT, YT, Wahoo, Doroado and many others. I don't get to fish very often living 2K miles away from SD, so to me, it's more than the fish. Being on a a boat, no phones, a good drink in the sun and breeze with new friends is what it's about to me. I wouldn't cut my nose to spite my face (or that of the fleet) just because a beauracratic machine is "threatening". The way to combat it is to CONTINUE FISHING!
 

Steve K

Hey, I'm gettin' bit...
Jan 2, 2005
11,148
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Bishop
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Steve
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18' Bayrunner, but I like the American Angler and the Red Rooster III
The reason I disagreed with Brian is because I believe that Bluefin is a target species.
What an opportunity, to have a shot at catching a triple digit tuna so close to home!
 

finishright

I've posted enough I should edit this section
May 17, 2008
965
380
Oceanside Ca.
Name
Mike Morris
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prowler kayak
I personally don't buy into all the so called scientist BS who's agenda are they pushing so they ban bft fishing are the rest of the countries going to do there part I really don't see it let them restrict the quota's on the commercial fleet and let the recreational fisherman have there shot I know great idea the money machine will not buy it and the opportunity to catch 3 100 lb blue in a day was priceless I don't think Ill see another day like that but I'll keep lookin for it
 

Abaco

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Aug 5, 2009
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Sacramento
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Dave
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The Organ
I do not believe that the science justifies banning our recreational fishing for these fish. I need to be convinced. I'm open to the idea. But, as that old Wendy's commercial said, "Where's the beef?!" I need to know what kind of survey's have been taken, what kind of data has been collected. I don't know any of that and I'd sure as hell like to see it.

I could really go off on this. But, I'm holding back. At this point, given the lack of a commercial fleet in our waters, they are just targeting us - you and me. I don't know about you but I took two BFT last year after a lot of trying- A week on the water. I saw plenty of big breezers of these beasts. They are there. They aren't easy to catch.
 
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garety

wishin i was fishin
Feb 23, 2012
184
32
Red Bluff
Name
garet
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t15
So how many Tons of BFT does the sport fleet take in a year? maybe 100 tones, (I am assuming 50 good trips that take 2 tons of BFT, 100 fish ~40 lb average) Regardless of the exact amount, Any one see the Mexican commercial quota, something like 10,000 tones.

I hate to point out the 800 LB gorilla in the room but the sport fleet is just a drop in the F#$%ing bucket and we get lumped in with the commercial guys for restrictions

Furthermore Last time I check sports men generate between 5-8x the economic impact per lb of fish caught and kept depending on species and how you look at it. I am talking about the jobs created as a result of us spending money on expensive rods, reels, lures, clothing, fish processing, trips, boats ect.

And on top of this the recreational licenses for just fishing brought in more than 65 million dollars to the state last year, Commercial only 5.7 million. While the commercial fleet catches something like 80% of all fish caught in the state.

The public takes it on the chin, and pays equally for the effect of industry :( we should honestly be writing congressmen and senators, rather than bitching here :(

As for mexico closing Mexican water I think it is just one of mexicos ways of sticking it to the san diego fleet since none of them will move down to Ensenada.
 
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$norkle

I've posted enough I should edit this section
May 6, 2008
679
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Corvallis,OR
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Bruce
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In my dreams!
A pretty multi-faceted problem. Just to pre-emptively turn aside harsh comments, I don't believe a ban on fishing BFT in US waters is justified. The recreational catch is a drop in the bucket compared to the net pens (probably even one net pen) in Mexican waters. The concern about breeders is also justified, and they are getting scarce. These are the giants who, in the Pacific, basically reside on the other side of the ocean. It's only (almost only) the juveniles that come to the Eastern Pacific. The recreational catch by SD boats is essentially all juvenile fish, even those triple digit fish that we covet and the take of those fish hardly at all affects the population of spawners on the other side of the ocean.

Having worked with folks plugged into tuna commissions and regional management councils, I see their actions as predictable and often based on politics and economics rather than biology, and admittedly, occasionally on misleading data ( a long story---data can be misleadingly biased by the means of collection). To rant against biologists is unfair and just misplaced anger. Try to remember that NOAA is part of the Dept. of Commerce---get it? Commerce. Biology often isn't paramount in decisions made concerning fishery resources, especially those with international implications.
 

BiggestT

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Sep 8, 2004
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SM
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Salsipuedes & Czech Mate
I personally know two IATTC biologists. They are pre-eminent authorities on bigeye. Yeah they will readily admit that changing one or two variables in the population models will give you an entirely different answer, but those models are the best science they've got. Over time, if they continue to point in the same direction, there's something to it. Anecdotal observations of bluefin by the LR fleet need to be severely discounted. Hell, more than half those crews couldn't tell a bigeye from a yellowfin, so what's their observation of bluefin worth?

I hate CBD much as the next guy. Their business model is to file lawsuits and get their legal costs reimbursed. Much of the science they use is bogus or severely flawed (see Pika ESA listing due to Global Warming that was shot Down), but in this case the science is coming from the IATTC. The IATTC is funded by the member countries. If their reports have the bluefin at 4% of MSY, then the bluefin is in serious trouble. The Magnuson Stevenson act would call for drastic curtailment, even stoppage of fishing effort, until the stocks were restored. Sadly, in this case I'm siding with CBD.
 

jiggyn

Do you even fish?
Jan 26, 2008
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Jerr
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shit talking
if the fear of low level stocks of the Pacific Blue fin tuna why not hit it where most of it goes. Yes its Japan. They consume 70-80% of the Pacific Blue fin that is harvested.
Why make everyone else hurt when what we take is so minute in the bigger scheme of things.
Put a ban on them, give them lower takes, give them some type of moratorium, or a window of harvest and heavy fines.

Oh and yes I was born and raised in Japan and lived there several years so Ive seen the heavy consumption of seafood
 

shellback

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Dec 18, 2003
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shellback
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other peoples
good to see you're still around Bruce...
imo biology and its studies aren't the problem. thier studies and the derived stats are manipulated to fit a commercial and ideological agenda long after completion. the problem is the economic/political system that corrupts the research, its outcomes and public opinion.
statistics are like people- if you torture them long enough you can get them to say anything.
tom
 
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Chasntuna

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Aug 12, 2008
325
50
South Carolina
Name
Brian
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The one I choose to ride.
The reason I disagreed with Brian is because I believe that Bluefin is a target species.
What an opportunity, to have a shot at catching a triple digit tuna so close to home!
Thanks for disagreeing and rebutting publically - good for a healthy debate! What I stated was BFT are a "bonus" and rarely a targeted species (as most years, they don't show and / or are too elusive to warrant a worthy search) - kinda like Albacore. I might have reworded the "rarely" to "not as frequently targeted as YFT or Cedros YT". I will agree 100% that if they're there - they are targeted, but I still think it's the exception. As for the BS science and it's agenda - 100% spot on. No different than emissions (vehicle / plant) and a host of other bull shit "scientific" findings. As Dave said "where's the beef". Didn't you hear that Wendy's stole that phrase from Al Gore?
Hell - I live on the east coast now and still prefer to fish / catch BFT on the west coast; it just wouldn't deter me (and hasn't) from booking a trip IF the BFT didn't show!
 
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Abaco

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Aug 5, 2009
815
175
Sacramento
Name
Dave
Boat
The Organ
Well, I can tell you from firsthand knowledge... In the realm of medicine and pharmaceuticals, major studies are often bastardized, their results completely mangled. I've been involved in studies and have seen it happen. Then, the B.S. conclusions are handed over to the AP and publicized. The last study I saw was the largest of its type ever carried out, here at the local university. When the data started pointing to a conclusion the funders didn't like the study was stopped and shelved. Science is so dead in America, so f'n dead. This is why I want to see the data on this. BiggestT - if you know somebody who has the data please tell them we'd like to see it.
 

26grumpy

who hooked who
Sep 24, 2006
9,340
3,705
Anaheim Hills
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Joe
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Freefrom Boats Club
Well, I can tell you from firsthand knowledge... In the realm of medicine and pharmaceuticals, major studies are often bastardized, their results completely mangled. I've been involved in studies and have seen it happen. Then, the B.S. conclusions are handed over to the AP and publicized. The last study I saw was the largest of its type ever carried out, here at the local university. When the data started pointing to a conclusion the funders didn't like the study was stopped and shelved. Science is so dead in America, so f'n dead. This is why I want to see the data on this. BiggestT - if you know somebody who has the data please tell them we'd like to see it.
There isn't any scientific data. This is how they roll, if there isn't any data we can't argue the data. Discussion over. All there is is to take their word for it, they are the "experts and scientists"......like, "there's only 4% of the world BF stock remaining"...if you don't agree with them they publically burn you at the stake.
 

$norkle

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May 6, 2008
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Corvallis,OR
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Bruce
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In my dreams!
Seems unlikely that a US ban on Bluefin tuna would have any effect since the take is only 2 percent of the total take.

http://www.fishwatch.gov/seafood_profiles/species/tuna/species_pages/pac_bluefin_tuna.html
Although they report a decline in landings, they don't anywhere report CPUE (Catch per unit effort); this is just as important as total catch. There is mention of 197 boats in the fishery in earlier years (80's and 90's), but only mention of 6 small purse seiners after that. Makes it very hard to explain what relationship there might be between availability (stock) and catch. Assessing any fish stock is a logistic and practical nightmare. Whether you believe any stock assessment or not, you have to admit that it is damn near impossible to reasonably assess any fish stock----it is usually done by evaluating CPUE, or in some cases by evaluating shifts in average size of individuals (shifting the population to younger age classes). I don't know what the condition (numbers) the stocks of juvenile BFT in the Eastern Pacific are in; unfortunately, I don't see much in the way of evidence that anyone else really knows either.

On the other hand, sometimes erring on the side of conservatism isn't a bad idea. The worst scenario would be to realize you've f#%ked up and it's too late to reverse course. What a pitiful epitaph it would be to read something like "they saw it coming and hadn't the foresight to prevent it."
 

BiggestT

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Sep 8, 2004
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SM
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Here's the most recent IATTC report, including recommendations on Bluefin tuna:

http://www.iattc.org/Meetings/Meetings2014/July/PDFs/IATTC-87-03d-Conservation-recommendations.pdf

This has been posted here before. It quotes stats from the ISC and IATTC. Stocks are reported at 20% of historic levels. This also reveals the source for the claimed 44,000 bluefin remaining, it's really 44,000 tonnes. That's typical of CBD playing fast and loose with the wording.

http://www.iattc.org/Meetings/Meeti...uefin-tuna-fact-sheet-and-recommendations.pdf
 
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Abaco

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Aug 5, 2009
815
175
Sacramento
Name
Dave
Boat
The Organ
... Assessing any fish stock is a logistic and practical nightmare. Whether you believe any stock assessment or not, you have to admit that it is damn near impossible to reasonably assess any fish stock----it is usually done by evaluating CPUE, or in some cases by evaluating shifts in average size of individuals (shifting the population to younger age classes). I don't know what the condition (numbers) the stocks of juvenile BFT in the Eastern Pacific are in; unfortunately, I don't see much in the way of evidence that anyone else really knows either...
."
Well, here's a thought. In the 5 years I've been doing this sport (still a noob) I've never once been surveyed when I've gotten off a boat. Not once. If you're counting fish being harvested wouldn't you actually go to where there are fish being harvested? - especially if we are such an integral, massive impact on the numbers. Hell, that reminds me - I still need to send in my steelhead report card (hint, hint...) Are the boat captains reporting BFT numbers?

Wouldn't be surprised if there is no data.
 

js_lind

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Aug 28, 2006
147
188
53
Villa Park
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John
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-
This petition is brought forth by the same group of anti-access liberal douch-bags that successfully closed a large portion of the Glamis sand dunes using selected science which convinced the BLM that the dunes were home to an endangered weed. When it was all said and done, and a study performed by unbiased real scientists, it was proven that the weed was not actually endangered, but a portion of the closure remains in place anyway.

Everyone needs to respond. These guys have a lot of money and they are very dangerous. They were able to close the dunes partly because of the apathy in the off road community. Let's not let them close the BFT fishery.

Here is my response to the petition:

I strongly disagree with the proposed petition to close the Pacific Bluefin fishery to recreational fisherman. In my on the water observation, over the past 4-5 years, the pacific bluefin population along the pacific coast continues to thrive and grow. This observed growth, in both numbers of fish and size of fish, is in the face of increased commercial pressure from south of the US boarder. Not coincidentally, during this same time I have personally witnessed a growth in the bluefin population, the Mexican government has began to enforce a quota on it's commercial bluefin fleet. With the regulations on the commercial bluefin fleet now being enforced, the small number of fish taken by the recreational angers has no impact on the bluefin population. There fish are very difficult to catch recreationally and it is not often that a recreational angler lands more than one or two in a day. I have been on dozens of fishing trips out of San Diego over the past 10 years and never once have I taken a daily limit(5) of Bluefin. This is typical of the average San Diego angler.

Additionally, the group behind this petition, The Center for Biological Diversity, has been know to use bogus science as a method to limit public use of land and in this case water. I urge the team responsible for ruling on the petition to research and consider the "Peirson's Milk Vetch" case, before relying on an scientific data put for by this group. After years of legal wrangling and millions of dollars spent, it was determined the science put forth by the CBD that resulted in land access closures was not statistically valid. I would bet the same tactics were used here.
 

Tautog_17

Advertiser
Advertiser
Jul 23, 2012
250
406
San Diego, CA USA
Name
Matt
Boat
N/A
Well, I can tell you from firsthand knowledge... In the realm of medicine and pharmaceuticals, major studies are often bastardized, their results completely mangled. I've been involved in studies and have seen it happen. Then, the B.S. conclusions are handed over to the AP and publicized. The last study I saw was the largest of its type ever carried out, here at the local university. When the data started pointing to a conclusion the funders didn't like the study was stopped and shelved. Science is so dead in America, so f'n dead. This is why I want to see the data on this. BiggestT - if you know somebody who has the data please tell them we'd like to see it.
The report that their filing refers to can be found if you browse through their website. Interestingly enough, the report contains no references for (1) when it was published or (2) what sources the data came from or (3) who the individuals were the collected, summarized and published the information. Tonight, I'll post the report...it's on my home PC.
 

XL1

XL1
Aug 26, 2011
337
259
usa
Name
XL
Boat
www.excelsportfishing.com
This petition is brought forth by the same group of anti-access liberal douch-bags that successfully closed a large portion of the Glamis sand dunes using selected science which convinced the BLM that the dunes were home to an endangered weed. When it was all said and done, and a study performed by unbiased real scientists, it was proven that the weed was not actually endangered, but a portion of the closure remains in place anyway.

Everyone needs to respond. These guys have a lot of money and they are very dangerous. They were able to close the dunes partly because of the apathy in the off road community. Let's not let them close the BFT fishery.

Here is my response to the petition:

I strongly disagree with the proposed petition to close the Pacific Bluefin fishery to recreational fisherman. In my on the water observation, over the past 4-5 years, the pacific bluefin population along the pacific coast continues to thrive and grow. This observed growth, in both numbers of fish and size of fish, is in the face of increased commercial pressure from south of the US boarder. Not coincidentally, during this same time I have personally witnessed a growth in the bluefin population, the Mexican government has began to enforce a quota on it's commercial bluefin fleet. With the regulations on the commercial bluefin fleet now being enforced, the small number of fish taken by the recreational angers has no impact on the bluefin population. There fish are very difficult to catch recreationally and it is not often that a recreational angler lands more than one or two in a day. I have been on dozens of fishing trips out of San Diego over the past 10 years and never once have I taken a daily limit(5) of Bluefin. This is typical of the average San Diego angler.

Additionally, the group behind this petition, The Center for Biological Diversity, has been know to use bogus science as a method to limit public use of land and in this case water. I urge the team responsible for ruling on the petition to research and consider the "Peirson's Milk Vetch" case, before relying on an scientific data put for by this group. After years of legal wrangling and millions of dollars spent, it was determined the science put forth by the CBD that resulted in land access closures was not statistically valid. I would bet the same tactics were used here.
Well done thanks!

PLEASE ACT NOW! Follow this link to comment on our Bluefin fishery! Speak now or forever hold your peace.

Click on link below. When Page opens Click on the Blue "Comment Now" Button. Be sure to fill out all of the mandatory fields.


http://www.regulations.gov/#!docketDetail;D=NOAA-NMFS-2014-0076