Pole Barn Insulation Question

Discussion in 'Washington Fishing Reports' started by Tiderunner31, Dec 18, 2017.

  1. Tiderunner31

    Tiderunner31 Newbie

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    Josh
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    I am in the process of getting a 68x42 pole barn built. I have been debating on how to insulate the building. Originally, the plans called for the 2.5 inch vapor barrier beneath the metal that also has a little fiberglass and is rated at r6 but when compressed it yields less. I have read a bunch online about guys insulating with batt insulation instead of the fiberglass blankets that get installed between the wood and metal. I plan to install a propane heater up in the ceiling at set it around 40 when not in there and up to 55 when working on the weekends. Will this 2.5 insulation do ok and not kill me on heating costs? Our climate is a milder than alot of the online discussions. The builder says I can go heavier on the fiberglass blanket to a 3 inch which is r10 but to do that I would also need to upgrade the metal to 26 gauge from 29 so it doesnt get a wavy appearance on the outside. Other options include getting 6' walls put in and install batt insulation rolls etc and cover with plywood and install a ceiling below trusses and have insulation put up there. I wasnt sure if all that money spent doing that would be worth it. Any comments or suggestions would be appreciated.

    At this point, the builder has all the posts set and is getting read to raise the trusses in the next week. Its 68 long by 42 wide with 4 14ft wide bays that have 12x14 insulated roll up doors and one additonal 12ft bay with a mandoor and posts to build a loft up above. To save on heating, I will likely put in a divider wall so that I am only heating the 12ft bay plus two 14ft bays. 6 inch concrete all around. Radiant heat has been mentioned as an option also but for my application (not being out there everyday), not sure it would be worth it. Thanks for any help.
     
  2. fishing fanatic

    fishing fanatic Well-Known "Member"

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    Truely the r6 is little more than an anti sweat measure and will do little to hold your heat in tonsay the least. If you’re heating it all the time, even when you’re not there, radiant is not only insanely safer but also waaaaaaayyyyyy more efficient. Of course that being said insulation(6” walls” )and a solid thermal block in the slab are key, otherwise you’re heating the great outdoors and regardless of mild climates you will lose. Just my opinion
     
  3. Chtucker

    Chtucker Lowe boat denter

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    Radiant floor wood be a bad solution. It would take days to get the building up to temperature to work, BUT it would also take a long time for the slab to cool. You would have had to place isulation before you poured though.

    Not sure about the R values. I would look at propane infrared tube heater http://www.spaceray.com/garage_infrared_heaters/
     
  4. fishing fanatic

    fishing fanatic Well-Known "Member"

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    I have radiant in my shop.... it’s 2600 sq ft and gets to 60 degrees, where it’s currently at, in 12 hours. Again, it’s all about insulation under slab, thermal blocking and obviously the structure. Also depends on what you’re using to heat your water for the system with
     
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  5. fishing fanatic

    fishing fanatic Well-Known "Member"

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    PM me if you’d like more information or ways I’ve gone about building and heating shops, it’s what I do for a living.
     
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  6. easydoesit86

    easydoesit86 nubbie

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    In my pole building, I put in the foam insulation inbetween the 2x6's. Then in some spots I put plywood over it. I also have radiant heat with a gas hot water tank for the heat source. My shop is only 600 square feet, with 12' eves, but only costs around $50 a month to keep it heated 24/7. I also put in 2" foam under my slab.
     
  7. G-Spot

    G-Spot Captain

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    No matter what type of heat you choose, the thin little moisture barrier will do very little to hold heat. Single wall construction, cold damp metal siding, and barely insulated equals a large inefficient heat bill.

    Heat rises and compared to a home which has a flat ceiling, with Sheetrock, and R-38 or R-50 if it is not an old cold home. I would recommend you insulate with minimum of R21 and then they have a fire retardant paper that they can staple over it. A local insulation company would probably do the whole job materials and labor for a couple grand. Insulation is one job that doesn’t pay to do yourself.

    On the heat side of things you have one chance to do radiant and that is before concrete, so carefully consider what the guys above are telling you. The temp swings are not near as bad as some of the Internet hype. You can order everything online and save a ton of money and do it yourself. The other huge benefit is the heat is right down low where you are standing and working, so it will feel much warmer and be throughout your whole shop.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
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  8. Tiderunner31

    Tiderunner31 Newbie

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    So do I put the 2 inch vapor barrier down between metal and purlins/girts even if I’m gonna add insulation later? Didn’t know if I want my vapor barrier underneath any new insulation I put in later?
     
  9. Fireball

    Fireball Not so New

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    Insulate under the slab for any type of heat system you do. It is now required for any slab on grade for dwelling units. I know it is not a dwelling unit but you will lose a ton of heat through an uninsulated floor. The 2.5" insulation on the metal is a sweat barrier as mentioned earlier this is what I have on my building in central WA. Does help but very little.

    If the siding is not up and the framer is starting soon talk to them about framing your walls vertical if possible or if they got to be horizontal for the metal see if they can do it on edge so you can fit in 6" of insulation. When I did my building I had to go back and frame in walls to make a little crash pad to get out of the weather. Basically I built the living/working area it twice did not have insulation under the floor and paid the price for corrections.

    68 X 42 Great size

    Good luck

    Typed at 6:30 but did not hit post button
     
  10. Odin7

    Odin7 Odin7

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    What about spray foam for the walls?
     
  11. G-Spot

    G-Spot Captain

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    In our area what Fireball is referring to is “commercial” style perlins. The can run horizontal, but turned flat and ran between the posts so you have a cavity to install the insulation. If they lay them flat against the outside of your posts you will have to frame in If you want insulation later. Also doing “commercial” perlins you have framing to run electrical and even sheet later.

    I would put a moisture barrier only and have it insulated after, paying them to install thin insulation if you are going to insulate anyhow is probably not worth it.

    Good luck!
     
  12. G-Spot

    G-Spot Captain

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    Costly, great R value, unforgiving to modify and run electrical and stuff... the price is getting better.
     
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  13. roadracerrick

    roadracerrick Member

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    right off the bat don't do a metal roof. they suck, and leak. mark my words.
     
  14. G-Spot

    G-Spot Captain

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    I stole this image from Team Tom’s shop build thread.... if you run your perlins like this, you can insulate real easy with 24” batts of Standard insulation. Disregard his opening for doors and windows and look at the straight perlins.

    F59BEBC4-EC77-4A03-9386-0BCA3DFDDF81.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2017
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  15. sharkster

    sharkster Member

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    I have a 36 x 56 pole barn in westport with only the 2.5" insulation all the way around and no it does not stay warm. I was planning on a Mr. Heater 80k btu propane to warm it up and try to keep some moisture out. Right now any card board in barn is really soft from moisture absorption. Only had. 2 drip areas out of all the screws holding metal on and my Contractor came and fixed them.
     
  16. fishing fanatic

    fishing fanatic Well-Known "Member"

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    Spray foam.....
    1) requires a great amount of preparation for EVERYTHING before you do it
    2) if you want a finished look you must cover it after the fact and the price to do it is very steep, BUT done right and.....
    ITS THE ALL IN ONE! Vapor barrier, extremely amazing r value and a forever deal
     
  17. fishing fanatic

    fishing fanatic Well-Known "Member"

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    And I’m not saying the price to cover it is high in saying the spray foam itself
     
  18. goatram

    goatram Notable Member Gate Keeper to the Great Northwest

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    grrrrrrrr
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    I built my 30'X36'x20'Tall shop. I have the Commercial style purlins. I installed 6" faced FG in the walls. The rafters are 2"X8" so they got 8" Batts stuck up in it and then covered in OSB and painted. I also installed three ceiling fans to blow warm air back down.

    For heat I now have a Mr Heater NGas vented thru the roof. Propane vented inside will add a tons of moisture to the inside. Wood stove might be cheaper if you cut, split your own wood. My thermostat keeps my shop dry and at 55 degrees. Anything over 65 makes it to warm to work. Can set it higher if need be for a good reason.

    Listen to Jon
     

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