PETITION FIGHTS SHARK FINNING

Discussion in 'Fishing Chit Chat' started by BD STAFF, Aug 18, 2011.

  1. BD STAFF

    BD STAFF Fishing Forums, Articles and Reports

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    [​IMG]

    More than 20,000 people recently joined a viral campaign on the social website Change.org, asking California lawmakers to approve A.B. 376, a bill that would ban the sale of shark fins in the state. Change.org is a website that allows social activists to ban together and gain support for a range of causes.
    Hawaii, Washington, Oregon, and several countries have already passed bans on the sale of shark fins. About 85 percent of U.S. shark fin consumption occurs in California.

    To read more of this article, click below:

    http://www.bdoutdoors.com/story/ban-shark-finning/
     
  2. jagerhunchback

    jagerhunchback MCLMM

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    i had no idea that california had'nt banned it yet, even more interesting is that my home (hawaii) banned it quite some time ago. gordon ramsey recently did a show in costa rica showing their finning industry and garnered support from london chinese food restaurants to stop serving it http://www.thedorsalfin.com/shark-news-stories/gordon-ramsay-shark-fin/
     
  3. Northeastfshman

    Northeastfshman Moderator

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    Finning is wrong...the sale of shark fins is NOT WRONG! There is a legal commercial shark fishery in this country. When someone catches a Mako or Thresher that is going to be sold they remove the fins and sell them along with the fish. These fins often go for as much as $40/lb. By banning the sale of shark fins in this country all you are doing is hurting the people that are legally shark fishing and taking the fins. Finning is already illegal in the ... the sale of Shark Fins is not! Big difference

    The fins from finning that are sold in this country are all done so via an underground market, (illegally already), so this petition likely won't stop that.

    Just something to think about.

    No argument finning is the single most deplorable practice in the world! I just want to make sure I am clear on that!
     
  4. umoa

    umoa silent

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    change.com is a much better site.
     
  5. ConSeaMate

    ConSeaMate Legend in my own mind

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    This is right on the money.......
     
  6. M/V Santa Rosa

    M/V Santa Rosa Advertiser Advertiser

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    ON THE MONEY, BINGO
     
  7. Northeastfshman

    Northeastfshman Moderator

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    THANK GUYS! I've put this up so many places to try and explain the differenc and usually just get killed. I no longer commercial fish but I am huge believer in makeing the most of a resource. If you are taking A WHOLE fish for sale ... why wouldn't you use the fins????


    PLEASE MAKE SURE YOU ARE SIGNING PETITIONS TO STOP FINNING! Not the to stop the sale of fins on legally caught and wholly used sharks. So long as commercial sharking is done in a sustainable and respectful manner than please don't hurt the people who make their living doing it.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2011
  8. lynndeva

    lynndeva Fishing mom

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    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2011/08/california-shark-fin-ban-key-vote-senate.html


    Shark fin ban in California clears key Senate vote
    August 25, 2011 | 12:42 pm


    A push by California lawmakers to outlaw shark fins, the main ingredient in a traditional Chinese soup, cleared a key hurdle Thursday when it was approved by a state Senate committee.

    The bill, which would ban the sale, trade and possession of shark fins in California, has been championed by conservation groups as a way to curb the harvest of shark fins, a practice that has contributed to the sharp decline of shark populations worldwide.

    But the measure has divided California’s Chinese American community. For centuries the gelatinous soup prepared with dried shark fins has been served as a pricey Chinese delicacy, and opponents say banning it would discriminate against a cultural tradition.

    The bill passed the Senate Appropriations Committee on a 5-2 vote and now moves to the full Senate, where a vote is expected within the next few weeks.

    The California State Assembly passed the ban in May, but it ran into obstacles in the upper house.

    Chinese American restaurateurs and traders have lobbied against the ban and are being backed by several Chinese American lawmakers, including Sen. Ted Lieu (D-Torrance), who voted against the measure Thursday. Sen. Leland Yee (D-San Francisco) has called it "an unfair attack on Asian culture and cuisine."

    On the other side are conservationists, who are supported by some Chinese American lawmakers, chefs and celebrities, including basketball star Yao Ming. Tens of millions of sharks are killed each year for their fins and scientists say the fin trade threatens to disrupt ocean ecosystems.

    To harvest the fins, fishermen cut them off live sharks and dump the fish back in the water to die.

    State Assemblyman Paul Fong (D-Sunnyvale), a sponsor of the bill, was born in China and grew up eating shark fin soup but turned against it several years ago after watching a film about how the fin trade was wiping out shark populations.
    “At this rate they're going to be extinct in our lifetime,” Fong said in an interview. “And without the top predator, our ocean's ecosystem goes into a huge imbalance and falls like a house of cards.”

    “I'm proud of my Chinese roots, and our culture will live and survive without shark's fin,” he added.

    Similar legislation has been signed in Washington, Oregon and Hawaii. President Obama signed federal legislation tightening a ban on shark finning in U.S. waters earlier this year.

    If approved by the senate and signed by the governor, the California law would go into effect in 2013.
     
  9. Northeastfshman

    Northeastfshman Moderator

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    This makes me sad... Finning is and was ALWAYS illegal in CA.

    The sale of shark fins was only done by people legally fishing sharks and via an underground black market that will always exist. Why must we hurt our legal commercial fisherman over another countries dispacble practices?
     
  10. stephensbrown

    stephensbrown Newbie

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    Thank you for posting about this. I've gotten more pertinent news here, in my first fifteen minutes of membership, than I usually get from other sources. And thanks to the fellow angler who hipped me to bloodydecks.com. I'll go sign that petition now.
     
  11. stephensbrown

    stephensbrown Newbie

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    I guess I'm late to the petition. I expect I'll be better informed next time around.
     
  12. Rodless_Jim

    Rodless_Jim I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    I see the distinction you're making here, but the argument simply does not hold water. The ENORMOUS majority of shark fins bought in California are for use by Chinese restaurants, public establishments that are very, VERY policeable. Banning the sale of shark fins would limit the market to the illegal trade, as you point out. But in the case of shark fins, that is only a tiny portion of the market as a whole...unlike with illicit drugs or weapons.

    Reduce the market and you reduce the demand, reduce the demand and you reduce the profitability. Reduce the profitability, and you kill the finning business.

    I agree, such a ban would definitely hurt commercial shark fishermen, and like you, I would rather not see that happen. Sincerely! But there is no other feasible way...EFFECTIVE way...to fight the practice of finning. And THAT has to be stopped.

    My $.02.
     
  13. BiggestT

    BiggestT I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    The Governor signed this bill into law on October 7th.

    IMO there should be no commercial shark fisheries, period. The species can't hold up to such pressure. I thought that most commercial landings in CA were incidental catches such as threshers caught in the drift gillnet fishery targeting swordfish? As such, the banning of fin sales would have minimal impact on the commercials, so cry me a river. The point of the bill was to eliminate the sale of shark fins, thereby eliminating CA as a market for either domestic or foreign sourced shark fins. I don't think that's a bad thing.

    It's the Guy Harvey backed "Shark Free Marina" campaign that's misguided. The aim there is to enlist marinas to prohibit the landing of sharks. Sounds nice but it would mostly impact recreational fishermen, as most commercials land their catch at commercial ports who would never subscribe to this. The rec guys should have the option to land sharks within the DFG regs and do so at marinas.
     
  14. 86 Winchester

    86 Winchester Member

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    Shark fins from "Legally' caught sharks should be sold same as the meat.

    Simple, for the sale of shark fins; the shark is tagged with a number and the fines are tagged with corresponding numbers for that shark. Then you have a sustainable market to provide for those that consume the fins....shark fins without tags cannot be sold and are easy to identify as illegal.

    Other countries do what they want to with little or no regulations, so we the fishermen always get the regulations imposed on us as a result. Every year 75 million sharks are killed according to the enviro's, I've hear this for 10 years. All I can say is the shark population must be sustainable because the take has not fluctuated at all.

    Funny, the enviro's complained...sharks are caught, fins cut off, shark dumped into sea. Now its, shark are caught, shark are kept-ed for the meat and the fins are cut off and dumped into the sea...so was it about fins or to ban all shark fishing???

    The “New World Order” has quietly backed the radical environment movement. In June 3-14, 1992 Mikhail Gorbacev opened the Rio de Janeiro Summit Meeting of Global Warming with: The Threat of Environmental Crises would be the International “disaster Key” that would unlock the New World Order. A massive array of Green Advocacy Groups (GAG’s) and Non Government Organizations (NGO’s) are working hand in hand with the United Nations to bring Vast Areas of the United States under UN Control, under the “GUISE” of “PRESERVING the ENVIRONMENT.
     
  15. JFK

    JFK Well-Known "Member"

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    Agreed. Treat the disease, not the symptom. A few legit commercial guys not being able to legally sell fins is a very small problem compared to the illegal finning industry. Some toes might need to get stepped on, nothing is perfect, but the overall impact of this bill will be a positve one.
     
  16. 86 Winchester

    86 Winchester Member

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    Legally caught sharks, the whole shark should be utilized including the fins!!

    The governor banned shark fin possession and sale. I'm sure he did not look into the financial impacts to family commercial fishermen.

    What the Governor should had considered; issue shark tags for legally caught sharks with corresponding tags for its fin's. Each shark would be logged on the catch report with tag number. This would supply a legal shark fin market to consumers in the U.S. Also, legally tagged shark fins could not be exported.

    Markets that posses and prepare shark fins for food could easily be inspected. The sale of tagged shark fins would be recorded and reported to the game department who issue the tags.

    Any untagged shark fins would be illegal to possess or sale. The supply of shark fins that wind up in the illegal trade are not from family commercial fishermen, so why punish them?

    This way it would deter illegal take and sale of shark fins.

    But we all know using common sense is never going to be part of any management scheme when the management goal is to eliminate all take in our fisheries. Divide and conquer among fishermen, both avid and not so avid is the key to stop fishing and or extreme regulations and area closures for all species.
     
  17. 86 Winchester

    86 Winchester Member

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    I read this article, one thing I noticed was what the authoritative biologist had to say. It appears the same [​IMG] science used in banning the sale of shark fin's.

    Excepts from article;

    CANBERRA, Australia (AP) — The sudden death of an American diver in the jaws of a great white shark off Australia's southwest coast has raised the specter of a rogue man-eater preying on a renowned aquatic playground and killing three men in two months.

    The Western Australia state government set tuna-baited hooks off the island Sunday, the first time authorities have used an emergency legal exemption from the state protection of great whites as an endangered species in the interests of protecting the public.

    But Barry Bruce, a federal government marine biologist with extensive research experience in tracking the movements of tagged great whites via satellite and in examining their behavior, said it was unlikely that a single, lurking predator killed the three recent victims.


    "What we've seen tragically is three cases of people by sheer bad luck being in the wrong place at the wrong time," he said.


    "If you're in the path of a white shark that is in the process of hunting its natural prey, that's an exceptionally dangerous situation to find yourself in," he added. (NO [​IMG], When are they not hunting something to eat???)



    He said the great white population was not growing but shifting around the world for reasons that scientists do not fully understand. (How about there are to many great white sharks because they are fully protected, sounds like there fully recovered and should not be endangered species anymore)


    Barbara Weuringer, a University of Western Australia marine zoologist and shark researcher, agreed. She urged against a shark hunt, saying there was no way of telling which shark was the killer without killing it and opening its stomach.


    "It sounds a little bit like taking revenge, and we're talking about an endangered species," Weuringer said.


    (if your the victim of an endangered species predator you just fall under the category of "collateral damage")[​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]






     
  18. Rodless_Jim

    Rodless_Jim I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Well, Jess, up until this post, I was pretty sure you were just narrow-minded, and didn't want to see or understand the truth. Now it is clear that you are actually totally CLOSED-minded, and only have an agenda. So lets be clear...

    There is only one, very small point that anyone has made in this thread in favor of allowing the sale of any shark fins: if the shark is legally caught, it seems like a waste to forbid the sale of consumption of its fins. OK, point taken.

    However, allowing the sale of ANY shark fins simply opens the floodgates for the finners. Anyone who suggests that there could be a way to tag or track legally-caught fins is dreaming. The only feasible approach is an outright ban on the sale. No ifs, ands, or buts. I don't expect someone like you to like it, but I bet somewhere deep inside, you understand it. You'll never man up enough to admit it, but you know I'm right.

    In any case, the biggest hole in your argument is the idea that commercial fishermen get hosed by the regulations. I suppose that's true in a sense. But there should be an outright ban on the commercial fishery for sharks too. Yep, I said it. It's true, too. Sharks of all species are far more than threatened. Numbers world-wide are collapsing, and the damage is already very noticeable. As an example, in the Sea of Cortez where finning has been a serious business for a couple of decades, shark populations have collapsed, and as a result, squid populations have exploded. The entire ecosystem has been changed, perhaps permanently, and there is no way to say for sure if the current model is even sustainable.

    The only way a shark should ever be legally caught and kept is by a licensed recreational fisherman, and the fins still must not be legal to sell.

    Oh, and don't try to sell us on the bullshit "bycatch" argument. We've seen how well that loophole works. A generation ago, when commercial fishermen in the Gulf of Mexico were prohibited from catching spawning redfish, they told state and federal authorities that they were targeting grouper, and redfish were just a bycatch. But since they were catching the fish anyway, why not allow them to sell them? Result? They went right on fishing redfish, catching over 2,000,000 TONS the following year. Grouper? Oh they caught some...but less than 200,000 tons. The redfish populations crashed, and it took very strict regulations and over 10 years from them to come back. One or two more year of "bycatch" harvesting would have virtually eliminated the red drum in the Gulf of Mexico. Now, with slot limits and controlled catches, the species is back, but that's a good luck story, and redfish repopulate 100 times faster than sharks.

    Believe it or not, I am all for commercial fishermen, and I want them to be able to make a living. I am sincere in that. But the interests of commercial fishermen MUST take a back seat to the interests of the species and the ecosystem. Time and again, we have seen that commercial fishing in general just doesn't give a shit, as long as there is money to be made. When it comes to making an objective decision about how a fishery needs to be managed, they just cannot be trusted, point blank. In fact, for every single one of us who is a recreational angler, the LAST person we should ever want to see with a powerful voice in fishery management is a commercial fisherman.

    86 Winchester, we all see that you feel very strongly about this issue. You keep posting and posting about it, in fact. And I tend to be one of those people who is happy to let everyone express their opinion. God knows I have paid attention to yours!

    But at the end of the day, you're full of shit, plain and simple. Whatever crap you're trying spew just isn't true. You are either horrendously misinformed, or you are lying, full stop. Either way, you are wrong, and people need to know it.

    Wake up and smell the coffee. The fish are a resource that belong to everyone, not just to commercial interests, and healthy, sustainable ecosystems are not optional...they are mandatory. What we're seeing with sharks is not a "cyclical thing." That's a lie tailor made for people who want to stuff their heads in the sand and pretend nothing's wrong. A LOT is wrong...and trying to justify some way to sell shark fins just because some people will pay a lot of money for them doesn't cut it.

    I feel for the plight of the small-scale commercial fisherman, but they don't get to make money off of shark fins. Not for the next 100 years anyway. Don't like it? Tough shit. People who are a whole lot smarter than you and me both know for a FACT that this ban is necessary, and needs to be extended throughout the world, wherever it can be. There's not a thing you can say that will change that.
     
  19. wils

    wils lazy-ass well known "member"

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    good post, Jim.

    a couple of points

    1. no rec-caught fish/sharks/etc can be sold, so the fins of rec-caught sharks can only be used for personal consumption. Any sales could then be prosecuted to the max ... no excuses.

    2. Legal commercial "by-catch" of any species should be eliminated in every way, shape, and/or form. the documented red drum "bycatch" fishery is just one example.

    3. California has a HUGE population of those whose ancestors created "shark fin soup"...and they dont seem to care how many sharks have been wasted to falsely increase their libido....or lack there of. The side benefit of the ban on shark fins is "natural birth control". :rofl:

    4. How much $$$ are the legit sharks guys actually going to lose by not being able to sell their fins? Raise the price of the rest of the shark to compensate for that loss and pass it on to the consumer .... just like every other legit business owner does. ;)
     
  20. slomonkey

    slomonkey Newbie

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    wow .
    I try to avoid these types of discussions ,the bill is wasteful in my opinion ,it is already illegal for a commercial fisherman to posses fins of a shark without the corresponding shark carcass,finning in california is illegal period .
    now it seems the law should be that commercial fisherman can catch sharks but they must be finned at sea and the fins disposed of !!!wich is really the jist of it .the fins are illegal to utilize commercially (not sure what the bill says about export ?)
    it seems rather condtradictory considering the existing law already prohibits finning but allows the taking of sharks

    the bill will not decrease the take of sharks in california ,it only dictates that the sharks taken will not be fully utilized WOW thats mighty GREEN

    It just dosent make sense

    Jim perhaps you are right ALL by catch should be illegal
    next time YOU go fishing you can ONLY catch your target species ANY other fish you catch you should be fined or prosecuted for or maybe just prohibited from fishing altogether REALLY !!!!!
    not very realistic is it ,I suppose you ONLY eat fish you have caught yourself and never at a resturaunt or from a market ?
    if not then truly your opinions only serve to further eliminate managed domestic fisheries and fuel unregulated and unethical foriegn fisheries and the import of fish taken without regulation or concern for the fisheries

    By the way anyone who thinks they are a sportfisherman and that these sorts of laws preserve the fisheries for them has really got there head in the sand ,open your eyes people have other interests for the ocean .in mind and when all is said and done it will be free from fisherman full of reserves and then fishfarms on existing honored leases and oil yup oil and farms



    Just my 3 cents
     

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