Pacifica runs aground in Mission Beach

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5150

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Aug 4, 2004
749
31
60
California
Name
JB
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Matson Inc.
What are the other owners involved with the Prowler and Pacifica thinking with this knucklehead in charge. Would have to believe the pending law suits on the Prowler incident that are still pending are strengthened 10 fold for the victims of this guy. USCG needs to get a reality check on allowing him to still have a license. Bet they won't make the same mistake twice....
 

Ctony.clark

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jun 14, 2012
319
556
Carlsbad, Ca, u.s.a.
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Tony Clark
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Freedom Boat Club
However it shakes out, my guess is after the insurance company investigation, they will either cancel the policy or increase rates that will be prohibitively high. And I doubt any other policy writer would touch the operation with a 10’ gaff right now.
That seems to be a very logical outcome.
 

vegasandre

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Aug 20, 2010
1,931
1,940
San Diego
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Andre
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Any Boat that I can go on
I am surprised that none of the paasengers on board haven't chimed in yet and told their story on what unfolded.

Usually there are always some people up at that time frame getting everything ready to de-board...
 
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makairaa

I've posted enough I should edit this section
May 1, 2005
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3,740
Tustin CA
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Philip Hunkins
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17 starcraft
Yeah I bet it did. Lawyers for Andrew Viola most likely fell on their swords?
Most likely the insurance carrier saw a losing bet and paid off the policy maximum and the plaintiffs were reasonable and took it.
 

makairaa

I've posted enough I should edit this section
May 1, 2005
4,518
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Philip Hunkins
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17 starcraft
...guess who is scheduled to be on Let's Talk Hook up on Sunday 30June2019??? (hint: used to own another boat that's name started with a "P")

that should be one very interesting interview that will shed some light and hopefully some facts on what actually went down. (Pun intended)
With possible lawsuits and a coast guard investigation. If he is smart he will not say a word.
 
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Miss Fitz

Call me Captain
Mar 4, 2013
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fuck-you-and-the-horse-you-rode-in-on.com
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Vince
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26' TwinVee Pilot House
With possible lawsuits and a coast guard investigation. If he is smart he will not say a word.
Not trying to be offensive but, lawsuits for what? Wet clothes? Unless I missed something, there were no reported injuries.

This was a major bullet dodge since the surf was nearly flat when Pacifica ran aground. If she went aground with a south or west swell running, that incident could have ended in a much worse way. This was a Matrix like bullet dodge.
 

Orc

Newbie
May 13, 2008
4
6
San Diego,CA USA
Name
Luke
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75, Custom, Her Grace
Let’s tack back toward some useful information.

This industry is not operating in a passenger safety priority level consistent with all other businesses that carry passengers for hire. They have no safety manuals. Manuals won’t prevent accidents is bullshit. The effort of writing down everything they will do to keep passengers safe and requiring all crew to acknowledge them forces attention on what matters. Try writing a manual that says use a kill switch to kill AIS and don’t use all the collision avoidance alarms.

They are not using basic technology for collision avoidance like AIS (even the boats that have it install hidden kill switches so they can hide their position). There is no excuse for a vessel carrying passengers offshore at night not to be equipped with AIS.

They don’t use the systems built into the electronics they do have like watch alarms, radar alarms, plotter course and waypoint alarms, and apparently sounder alarms. Alarms are a hassle. No other commercial passenger vessel operates without using these alarms. They won’t operate without a fish alarm but a collision avoidance alarm, meh.

They aren’t maintaining an active watch of multiple crewmen at all times. All other commercial vessels carrying passengers at night uses a two person watch minimum. It’s hard to fall asleep when someone else is there. They have plenty of crewmen aboard. Take one off deck cleaning duty and put him in the wheelhouse to keep the passengers safe.

They aren’t requiring a medical exam of the people running the boats so they know if they are using prescription opiates. They don’t do independent supervised drug testing. Drugs are a MAJOR problem in this industry and the druggies have ways to swap pee so they can beat the government drug tests. They all know it. It’s the dirty secret and they hide their heads in the sand because they really don’t want to know.

They aren’t verifying rest periods. There is no rest log. They aren’t making sure the guy who is supposed to flip from night sleep to day sleep is actually sleeping when he’s supposed to be. Many times the second is on deck during the day in a hot bite. And I could go on and on.

Trains don’t operate this way. Buses don’t. Limos don’t. Airplanes don’t. Whenever safety is brought up, groupies raise hell because they like the perpetual high school environment pervasive in this industry.

The guys who hold all the power are the landing owners and they don’t seem to understand these accidents, which aren’t really accidents at all, are bad for the brand. The sportfishing industry is slowly dying and these events are making it worse. What parent is going to let their kid go fishing when every year one of the boats hits an island, hits a super yacht or runs up on the beach?

Until either the landings or the insurance companies pull the plug nothing will change. Invicta running into an island and putting all the passengers in life boats didn’t change anything. I thought one man dying and two men breaking their backs in multiple places on Prowler would wake them up, but literally nothing changed.
The COI of most all sport boats require only 2 tickets. And 2 deckhands. They all carry more crew then the coast guard requires and more licensed personnel then is required. If you want more manning then get prepared to pay alot more to go fishing. Like double. I'm not defending what has happened on the Pacifica or the prowler just stating that these boats already have more crew and licensed captains then is required for them to leave the dock.
 

Ctony.clark

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jun 14, 2012
319
556
Carlsbad, Ca, u.s.a.
Name
Tony Clark
Boat
Freedom Boat Club
Not trying to be offensive but, lawsuits for what? Wet clothes? Unless I missed something, there were no reported injuries.

This was a major bullet dodge since the surf was nearly flat when Pacifica ran aground. If she went aground with a south or west swell running, that incident could have ended in a much worse way. This was a Matrix like bullet dodge.
I have two buddies that were on the boat, do you think they slept well last night? This is so disappointing, the industry, landings, and my hobby does not need this right now.
 

Larmo

Strip it. Mend it. Hit it!
Jul 11, 2004
1,386
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Larry
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Your Cabo
The COI of most all sport boats require only 2 tickets. And 2 deckhands. They all carry more crew then the coast guard requires and more licensed personnel then is required. If you want more manning then get prepared to pay alot more to go fishing. Like double. I'm not defending what has happened on the Pacifica or the prowler just stating that these boats already have more crew and licensed captains then is required for them to leave the dock.
Just put a deckhand in the wheelhouse when they run at night to make sure the captain doesn’t take a siesta. No new people. No new expense. They don’t pay those kids much anyway.

CG requirements are mandatory minimums. They do not establish seaworthiness. A two man watch is SOP for US flagged passenger carrying vessels while operating at night.
 
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Larmo

Strip it. Mend it. Hit it!
Jul 11, 2004
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Your Cabo
However it shakes out, my guess is after the insurance company investigation, they will either cancel the policy or increase rates that will be prohibitively high. And I doubt any other policy writer would touch the operation with a 10’ gaff right now.

If I ran XL Capital I would pull coverage for the fleet and force them back to the docks until they get to the bottom of why this keeps happening and what changes are going to be made to make sure it won’t happen again. A statement like that from the insurers would change this industry overnight.

When they’re tired of losing money, they’ll force change.
 
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Orc

Newbie
May 13, 2008
4
6
San Diego,CA USA
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Luke
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75, Custom, Her Grace
Just put a deckhand in the wheelhouse when they run at night to make sure the captain doesn’t take a siesta. No new people. No new expense. They don’t pay those kids much anyway.

CG requirements are mandatory minimums. They do not establish seaworthiness.
You would really need a 3rd ticket. 4 hours on watch for both 2nds. 8 hours sleep. Throwing a deckhand up there wont help. He would be just as tired and worn out 2nd. I speak from experience. Worked 6 years in the industry.

The biggest problem is finding good people to work on the boats. 150 a day for 16 hours of work with a chance at tips is not enough incentive for people. Not many kids want to work that hard anymore. You start paying deckhands 200 a day and 2nd 250-300 then you could probably get the manning requirements that you want. So like I said double your trip cost.
So 800 a day for deckhands, 600 for 2nds 200 for cook.
Assuming 4 deckhands. 2 2nds and 1 cook.
Vs 400 for deckhands, 150 for 2nd, 200 for cook.
Assuming 4 deckhands, 1 2nd and 1 cook
 

squidlymang

Newbie
Aug 29, 2005
15
8
California
Name
Squid
Boat
Parker
...guess who is scheduled to be on Let's Talk Hook up on Sunday 30June2019??? (hint: used to own another boat that's name started with a "P")

that should be one very interesting interview that will shed some light and hopefully some facts on what actually went down. (Pun intended)
...now its special guest Doug Kern on tomorrow.
 

MYNomad

Heading South
Dec 12, 2007
3,625
3,612
Pacific Northwest / West Coast Mexico
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Rick
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Yes
Yeah I bet it did. Lawyers for Andrew Viola most likely fell on their swords?
My guess, and admittedly it is only a guess (so sorry to speculate), is that Prowler had significant liability insurance relative to the net worths of any individuals who might also be liable, and that the insurance company took a look at it and, after some negotiation, offered a settlement for policy limits, or close to it, and as part of that settlement those individuals were also released, if they are not judgment proof anyway. That makes most sense if Prowler was the low hanging fruit (ie, primarily, or even exclusively liable). If Attessa is disclaiming liability, any settlement talks are probably focused on nuisance value.
 
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Miss Fitz

Call me Captain
Mar 4, 2013
476
331
118
SD
fuck-you-and-the-horse-you-rode-in-on.com
Name
Vince
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26' TwinVee Pilot House
I have two buddies that were on the boat, do you think they slept well last night?

I totally hear you...but in an instance like this (a near miss), I would hazard to guess that any potential plaintiff would have to prove that they were harmed in some way as a direct result from the grounding event. If you want a $$ settlement, plaintiff would need to prove damages (doctors bills, psychiatry bills, etc.) in order to claim damages. Claiming PTSD at this point might be difficult to prove.

As an example, I know of a guy that was literally RUN OVER but a college sculling team while fishing in a bay in his kayak. He had right of way. The sculling team knew and acknowledged that they totally fucked up. This was an 8 man team boat that ran him over dumping him and his gear in the water and earned him 2 broken ribs. The team ended up paying his medical expenses and gear loss which was nominal, but point of the story is that even after receiving physical injury, the settlement did NOT result in him moving into a mansion. He did not have significant damages sufficient to even try suing.
 
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Larmo

Strip it. Mend it. Hit it!
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You would really need a 3rd ticket. 4 hours on watch for both 2nds. 8 hours sleep. Throwing a deckhand up there wont help. He would be just as tired and worn out 2nd. I speak from experience. Worked 6 years in the industry.

The biggest problem is finding good people to work on the boats. 150 a day for 16 hours of work with a chance at tips is not enough incentive for people. Not many kids want to work that hard anymore. You start paying deckhands 200 a day and 2nd 250-300 then you could probably get the manning requirements that you want. So like I said double your trip cost.
So 800 a day for deckhands, 600 for 2nds 200 for cook.
Assuming 4 deckhands. 2 2nds and 1 cook.
Vs 400 for deckhands, 150 for 2nd, 200 for cook.
Assuming 4 deckhands, 1 2nd and 1 cook
What’s the alternative? How many times will Lloyd’s pay out before they ask why they’re in this business? The premiums are peanuts anyway. Looks like we’re heading to #4 now in less than 24 mos. That’s not sustainable.
 

ahidog

10000 atta boys
Sep 15, 2004
1,321
304
San Diego
Name
Tom
Boat
105', Camcraft, 85', Ditmar, 65' Noreck
...guess who is scheduled to be on Let's Talk Hook up on Sunday 30June2019??? (hint: used to own another boat that's name started with a "P")

that should be one very interesting interview that will shed some light and hopefully some facts on what actually went down. (Pun intended)
Doug Kern oh and no mention of it on Let’s talk Hookup this morning unless I missed it
 

Ctony.clark

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Jun 14, 2012
319
556
Carlsbad, Ca, u.s.a.
Name
Tony Clark
Boat
Freedom Boat Club
I totally hear you...but in an instance like this (a near miss), I would hazard to guess that any potential plaintiff would have to prove that they were harmed in some way as a direct result from the grounding event. If you want a $$ settlement, plaintiff would need to prove damages (doctors bills, psychiatry bills, etc.) in order to claim damages. Claiming PTSD at this point might be difficult to prove.

As an example, I know of a guy that was literally RUN OVER but a college sculling team while fishing in a bay in his kayak. He had right of way. The sculling team knew and acknowledged that they totally fucked up. This was an 8 man team boat that ran him over dumping him and his gear in the water and earned him 2 broken ribs. The team ended up paying his medical expenses and gear loss which was nominal, but point of the story is that even after receiving physical injury, the settlement did NOT result in him moving into a mansion. He did not have significant damages sufficient to even try suing.
My primary point is, black eye for many on the water front. My buddies, they aren’t interested in litigation as far as I know. I have fished these landings since Ray Sobiek ran the Producer back in the 80’s. I can’t remember a recent amount of time like this last few years when it comes to boat “incidents” be it the Prowler, Invicta, Maximus, Eclipse, Pacifica, etc.
Some of it appears to be poor Seamanship, some of it just sheer stupidity.
Godspeed to the Safety of our Fleet, it may mean culling the herd, so be it.
Lastly, I see myself doing more private boating, as I am confident of the watch......
 
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Larmo

Strip it. Mend it. Hit it!
Jul 11, 2004
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Your Cabo
The good news for passengers on Pacifica is the boat is intact and worth probably $500,000.

The trap door for Claimants in maritime cases is when the vessel asks the Federal Court to block all claims and limit them to the value of the salvage. In Prowler that salvage value was only $10,000. It’s a horrible law that is 200 years out of date. They will file that action very quickly and use the Federal Court to try and block claims years before the statute of limitations runs. In Prowler they filed that case 6 weeks after the accident and the deadline to hire a lawyer and appear in Federal Court was less than 90 days after the accident.

Even though good lawyers adept in seaworthiness concepts win these cases 99/100 it is the perfect trap for lawyers who file a maritime case once in their career.

In Pacifica the fact the vessel is barely damaged is excellent news because it takes the economic value of this strategy away from the defense.
 
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