Opinions and thoughts requested - Phenix

The American Tackle Company

jeffzou

Go ROYALS!
Feb 25, 2004
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Laguna Niguel
Name
Jeff
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Formerly the glorious "Two Kinds O' Pie"
Good morning all.

I've been wrapping a few rods in my time. Only had two blanks ever fail me. First was a St Croix blank I wrapped for myself. Sent the stick back to the Company and they had a new blank in my hand in less than a week. No charge for anything.

Last week wrapped my first ever Phenix blank for a long time friend and VERY experienced saltwater angler. First morning on water the top snapped. I wasn't there to know exactly what happened and so lets not make that part of this post...ok?

I wrapped this thing with a beautiful ALPS seat, smoke tinted guides, hypalon and rubberized cork grips in a black on black finish. Really stunning.

Phenix wants $60 + $15 (shipping) to consummate warranty. I lose the cost of the reel seat, etc....they requested I send the rod in "as is" so I would even lose the guides (won't do that, those puppies are coming off!).

Here is Phenix' warranty:

Phenix Rods & Accessories ("Phenix Rods") warrants that its fishing rods and blanks are free from defects in material and workmanship for the lifetime of the original owner. Subject to the conditions and limitations set forth below, Phenix Rods will, at its option, either repair or replace any part of its products that prove defective by reason of improper workmanship or materials.

This warranty does not cover any damage to this product that results from fire, intentional breakage, accident, abuse, misuse, natural disaster, repair, or modification.

This warranty covers only repair or replacement for defective Phenix Rods products. Phenix Rods reserves the right to determine whether to repair or replace any Phenix Rods product covered by this warranty and the right to replace any discontinued models with comparable models when necessary. Colors and components may vary between original and replacement parts. This warranty does not apply to products used for commercial purposes.


Warranty doesn't indicate they "will repair or replace - so long as you pay 1/3 the cost of the blank cost".

Ugh, I don't expect them to ship it for me for free. Heck, I guess even I understand that the expense of reel seats, etc...is just a "tough shit" moment. But to warranty a rod and then charge me a fee to effect the warranty? Doesn't much sound like a warranty to me, sounds more like a "discount" service.

First Phenix blank I ever used,,,,not sure I am enthused about even getting a new one to rewrap for my customer.

By the way it was a Black Diamond Hybrid PHD 700XH

Interested in thoughts on the warranty and on Phenix blanks...

PS: Added a few shots of the build

Decal on Blank:

1.jpg


Static Test


2.jpg



ALSP Reel Seat (crap....can't believe I'm gonna lose this )

3.jpg


Black thread art and rubberized cork over haypalon


4.jpg
 
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SALTYDAWG

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Aug 1, 2003
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Bill
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sold it
Why lose the seat? cut the blank at the front of the reel seat and send the front half of the blank (after you pull off the guides) to phenix, they are probably only interested in seeing the part that failed, and drill out the blank and arbor material and save the seat, if they want to see the entire rod, make sure they ship it back with the new blank. Phenix guys arent bad to deal with, give them a call and see what you can work out with them
 
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FAT CAT

FAT CAT
Nov 11, 2007
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22' Twin-Vee Catamaran POLE CAT
The warranty is only for manufacture defects to the blank, which is why they want to see it. I promise you there was no defect in the blank, so they're offering you any form of settlement is more than they have to do.

Experienced anglers are used to E-glass or composite blanks where the graphite is a reinforcement on the lower part of the rod while the tip remains E-glass, but the Phenix uses a graphite tip and the angler simply "high sticked" the rod. Bet the tip broke about 18 inches from the top. I watched an experienced angler break a TEREZ yesterday by lifting too high on a blue marlin on a short line under the boat. These types of blanks just won't stand up to that.
 
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tanner.s

Fish Slaughterer
Oct 18, 2012
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San Diego
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Tanner
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1997 Proline 23 W/A
I agree with Bill, there is no reason they can't ship the old rod back with the new.

I am confused as to why you are dealing with this when the customer snapped the rod? There are very few instances of defect and unless this is defect, he should deal with warranty. I believe he probably high sticked it and snapped the tip, common way to end any graphite rod.
 
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jeffzou

Go ROYALS!
Feb 25, 2004
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Laguna Niguel
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Jeff
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Formerly the glorious "Two Kinds O' Pie"
Hi Tanner,

The reason I am dealing with this is because I built this rod for him and I did it for him as repayment for a huge favor he did for me. He performed a service and this was my thanks. Be kind of short sided of me to ask him to deal with the warranty.

I agree with Bill, there is no reason they can't ship the old rod back with the new.

I am confused as to why you are dealing with this when the customer snapped the rod? There are very few instances of defect and unless this is defect, he should deal with warranty. I believe he probably high sticked it and snapped the tip, common way to end any graphite rod.
 
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tanner.s

Fish Slaughterer
Oct 18, 2012
1,896
599
San Diego
Name
Tanner
Boat
1997 Proline 23 W/A
Hi Tanner,

The reason I am dealing with this is because I built this rod for him and I did it for him as repayment for a huge favor he did for me. He performed a service and this was my thanks. Be kind of short sided of me to ask him to deal with the warranty.
Gotcha.
 
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jeffzou

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Feb 25, 2004
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Jeff
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Formerly the glorious "Two Kinds O' Pie"
Bill,

You seriously think I can drill that seat out and clear with a hand drill? I don't have a full wood shop, no drill press or similar machine. I will only be using a Dewalt 20volt drill.

Any tips for how to do this?

I think I am going to drive up to Bellflower next week and see what the fellas say in person.

Jeff



Why lose the seat? cut the blank at the front of the reel seat and send the front half of the blank (after you pull off the guides) to phenix, they are probably only interested in seeing the part that failed, and drill out the blank and arbor material and save the seat, if they want to see the entire rod, make sure they ship it back with the new blank. Phenix guys arent bad to deal with, give them a call and see what you can work out with them
 
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SALTYDAWG

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sold it
Bill,

You seriously think I can drill that seat out and clear with a hand drill? I don't have a full wood shop, no drill press or similar machine. I will only be using a Dewalt 20volt drill.

Any tips for how to do this?

I think I am going to drive up to Bellflower next week and see what the fellas say in person.

Jeff
I know you can drill it out, you just need a bit large enough to take out the blank material, after that the epoxy and arbor material you should be able to get out fairly easy with a chisel or screw driver. Using a little heat will help too. Once the blank is drilled out the rest will collapse pretty easy
 
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jeffzou

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Feb 25, 2004
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OK, thanks Bill I'll give it a go. That's black ALPS seat is the one I ordered through you. It looked great.


Jeff

I know you can drill it out, you just need a bit large enough to take out the blank material, after that the epoxy and arbor material you should be able to get out fairly easy with a chisel or screw driver. Using a little heat will help too. Once the blank is drilled out the rest will collapse pretty easy
 
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Capt Richie

Atlantic Custom Tackle
Aug 10, 2008
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nassau NY
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Richie
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32 albe
Hybrid ??? I have had several break ..Also have 50-60 rods still being fished with no problems...

I have dissected a few blanks ...One had a delamination problem between the carbon & Kevlar...One dripped saltwater for a week at the snap point...

I believe its QC issue good design good blanks just no QC at the factory & seems to be getting worse in recent months...

I'm moving away from the hybrid blanks ..All the others I build & fish seem to be great...
 
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jeffzou

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Feb 25, 2004
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Jeff
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If anyone is interested in what the break looks like, here is a photo. Happened exactly 14 inches down from the tip. This hybrid rod is kevlar and carbon fiber. Are the materials too strong for any joint to hold? Look how clean that break is.

Heading up to Phenix on Tuesday to discuss replacement....
rod tip.jpg
 
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capntim

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Jan 18, 2012
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Hobie 1
Jeff, much better to up there in person and deal with them. Had same issue earlier in the year with a hybrid I built for a customer. After they inspected it they determined blank failure. They gave me replacement blank, no $ out of pocket. I cut off guides in the store and they cut off the reel seat and gimbal. Have them leave about 4" of blank past reel seat when cutting which they will do as they mainly want part of rod that failed. When you get home get some wood dowel that will fit inside of blank. That way you can put that thing in a vise and cinch it down good. I then heated the crap out of the reel seat and then used a block of wood and tapped it with a hammer. You will have to repeat the process several times slowly working the re seat off. Best way without damaging the reel seat. Do not try using plyers with rag as you will damage reel seat finish, trust me I know. The reel seat I removed was an Alps have double trigger which is one of their most expensive seats which I was able to reuse. The only thing you are gonna have to eat is the cost of the grips and your time. Oh and Salty's method works as well if you have the available tools. Hope this helps.
 
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jeffzou

Go ROYALS!
Feb 25, 2004
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Jeff
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Formerly the glorious "Two Kinds O' Pie"
***UPDATE***

For those interested, I took the rod up to the fellas at Phenix yesterday morning. Good enough folks and they did me right by substituting the broken blank with a replacement for no charge.

Nonetheless, I do not believe that I will wrap any more "hybrids". It is just clear, to me anyway, that in spite of the savings in weight and dimension of the blank, hybrids are simply not as receptive to the rigors of a day on the water. Not saying this as a complaint about the Phenix people, they did right, but more about hybrid blanks.

My $0.02 and thanks to the guys at Phenix

Jeff
 
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Access

Fisherman
Sep 3, 2014
494
107
South Bay
Name
Lam
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SeaVee 370Z (One day)
Jeff, what do you mean the hybrids are "not as receptive to the rigors of a day on the water"? Please explain because I was actually thinking about purchasing one. I thought they were really strong with lots of backbone? Your input is greatly appreciated it. Thank you.
 
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jeffzou

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Feb 25, 2004
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Lam,

Hybrids ARE extremely strong and have a lot of backbone for sure. I was completely overwhelmed that the blank I wrapped was a 50-80 lb blank. It's weight and lifting power are simply amazing.

However, don't treat it the same as you might when fishing a more traditional rod - especially when attempting to loosen a snag or some other situation.

Hybrids are, however, very very lightweight and strong fish lifting and fighting tools. Just not for me...

Only my $0.02 worth of opinion
 
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jeffzou

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Feb 25, 2004
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Jeff
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Also, see Fat Cat's post above. Gives a pretty accurate description of my concerns.

Jeff

Jeff, what do you mean the hybrids are "not as receptive to the rigors of a day on the water"? Please explain because I was actually thinking about purchasing one. I thought they were really strong with lots of backbone? Your input is greatly appreciated it. Thank you.
 
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Fisherman
Sep 3, 2014
494
107
South Bay
Name
Lam
Boat
SeaVee 370Z (One day)
Jeff,
Greatly appreciate your feedback. They do feel kind of stiff, lightweight, and strong. Maybe I should play around with it again at the store to make sure what I am getting myself into. It is a great rod but like you said, it's probably not for everyone. Thanks again.
 
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jeffzou

Go ROYALS!
Feb 25, 2004
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Laguna Niguel
Name
Jeff
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Formerly the glorious "Two Kinds O' Pie"
Gregg,

The good people at Phenix believe my angler high sticked the rod causing the failure. They did the right thing nonetheless, and replaced the blank without charge.

Jeff

How did Phenix explain the cause of the break?
 
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