non-tape arbors ......... when and what..........

Wicked Rod

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Feb 26, 2020
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Buzz Butters
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nadda
At what point in time is it suggested to change from a tape arbor/paste epoxy to a drywall tape and paste epoxy arbor? What pound/power rod?Are there any alternatives that work well with heavy rods other than dry wall tape and epoxy or is that considered the best option? Thanks all, Buzz
 

Hotroddin

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no problem with a lot of torque on the reel seat when using foam arbors and paste epoxy?
I've tried tape and foam/graphite arbors, with a couple different types of epoxy, and I'm of the opinion that any method, as long as it's done right, will create a seal that is dang near foolproof under normal conditions. Prepare the surfaces correctly, make sure the epoxy is mixed and applied correctly, etc.

I prefer graphite for any gap larger than about 2mm, less than that I go with tape.
 
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Wicked Rod

Newbie
Feb 26, 2020
9
1
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55
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Name
Buzz Butters
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nadda
I've tried tape and foam/graphite arbors, with a couple different types of epoxy, and I'm of the opinion that any method, as long as it's done right, will create a seal that is dang near foolproof under normal conditions. Prepare the surfaces correctly, make sure the epoxy is mixed and applied correctly, etc.

I prefer graphite for any gap larger than about 2mm, less than that I go with tape.
thanks much IO appreciate the feedback
 

Cubeye

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Jan 26, 2007
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I do tape and paste from everything from trout to 130lb tuna rods. The tape is the centralizer and the epoxy is what’s holding the seat in place.
How wide is the tape that you are using? I guess what I'm really asking is how much surface area on the blank is the epoxy vs. the tape. The tape, in my opinion, does nothing to hold the reel seat from torquing, so that area is wasted.

Do you use liquid epoxy or paste ?
 

mike garrahan

TheSabreGuy
Sep 7, 2007
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I have done hundreds of rods using tape arbors over the last 20 or 25 years and have had zero failures. The tape just centers the reelseat so I use thin 1/4" masking tape. Some people use wider tape so that they don't use as much epoxy but epoxy is cheap and I want as much epoxy as possible between the blank and the reelseat. I space the arbors about 3/4" to 1" apart so that you have plenty of rod blank exposed but having the arbors every 3/4" or so traps the epoxy as you slide the reelseat on and each opening between the arbors will get completely filled with the epoxy. I use RodBond because it stays in place and is easy to work with and is very strong.
 

SouthBayKiller

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Mar 27, 2003
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How wide is the tape that you are using? I guess what I'm really asking is how much surface area on the blank is the epoxy vs. the tape. The tape, in my opinion, does nothing to hold the reel seat from torquing, so that area is wasted.

Do you use liquid epoxy or paste ?
I follow Bill Haven’s tutorial and have had no issues. I have 3 sizes of tape on my bench. 1/4”, 1/2” and a larger size I believe is 3/4” but might be 1”. Normally I use the 1/2” and space the arbors roughly 1/2” apart. One time I ran out of 1/2” and used the bigger size and just covered the whole area and then cut out the gaps.

I only use paste epoxy. So I guess it’s roughly 50% coverage. I just make sure to fill each gap between the arbors completely. I don’t even have liquid epoxy on my bench so I don’t know how I would use that.

I haven’t had any failures. I did make an error on one set of rods I built and had to replace the seats and I can confirm my installation method was effective :D
 

Hotroddin

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How wide is the tape that you are using? I guess what I'm really asking is how much surface area on the blank is the epoxy vs. the tape. The tape, in my opinion, does nothing to hold the reel seat from torquing, so that area is wasted.

Do you use liquid epoxy or paste ?
I disagree. Again, if the surface is prepared correctly and the adhesive is mixed properly, even an end to end arbor of tape isn't going anywhere. Rods simply aren't subjected to high torque load under normal conditions.

I had a similar comment in one of my YT videos, I offered to glue up a seat on a sample section and send it to the guy to try and break. He never responded. :D
 

Cubeye

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Jan 26, 2007
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17' Gregor
I disagree. Again, if the surface is prepared correctly and the adhesive is mixed properly, even an end to end arbor of tape isn't going anywhere. Rods simply aren't subjected to high torque load under normal conditions.

I had a similar comment in one of my YT videos, I offered to glue up a seat on a sample section and send it to the guy to try and break. He never responded. :D
I agree with you when it comes to the graphite reel seats. They have grooves on the inside diameter. I was referring more to the Aftco aluminum reel seats used for long range tuna fishing. I.e. rail rods. They are smooth on the inside.

You haven't had any problems with them?
 

plj46

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Jan 7, 2008
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How are you guys getting enough paste between the blank and reel seat to get a good bond ? I'm using liquid slow curing epoxy and pouring it down the blank into the void between the reel seat.Obviously a tape arbor to seal the gap at the butt end of the rod.It takes a little longer but i'm getting a solid void free fill.Paste sounds much faster and easier.
 

SouthBayKiller

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Jim, I highly recommend trying paste. The U40 stuff works great and stays put well. Flexcoat’s new stuff is too runny for me.
 

Woodhunter

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Jun 12, 2011
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Big gaps for the paste epoxy. Lots of tape on both sides of the reel seat final position as you want "too much" epoxy and some is pushed out when you position the reel seat. I watch the curing of the epoxy and remove most of it as it cures. Then pull the tape after curing. I wanted to keep the original foregrip.

Yep, U40 paste.

This is a Calcutta Bamboo one piece rod, and I had to replace the original seat and install it from the bottom. 75 year old rod.

Rod looks bent, it ain't. Distortion from the extreme wide angle lens.

Why the reel stand on the reel seat? Guides were already on the rod and I used the reel stand to aid in aligning the reel seat.



The clamp keeps the reel seat from sliding back as the epoxy cures.



Done. A retro "Period" match.




Sometimes I mix in some fiberglass flock if I want a very stiff epoxy. Buy it where boat fiber glassing supplies are sold, it is a West product.
 
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Hotroddin

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I agree with you when it comes to the graphite reel seats. They have grooves on the inside diameter. I was referring more to the Aftco aluminum reel seats used for long range tuna fishing. I.e. rail rods. They are smooth on the inside.

You haven't had any problems with them?
To be honest, I don't think the grooves matter one bit. Again, a reel seat simply is not subjected to the twisting forces the grooves would be helpful in resisting. Looking at a few Fuji seats right now and these tiny grooves are not going to make a significant difference.

I'm also basing my opinions on reel seats I've removed/replaced. Rarely am I able to get one off without destroying it, and the few times I have been able to re-use the seat, it's obvious that it wasn't installed correctly to begin with (usually not enough epoxy used).
 
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Hotroddin

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I wish I had some more spare stock laying around, this test would make for a good video!
 

Nirvana

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Aug 20, 2010
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Which one?
And a really nice job on the retro bamboo!! Love to see it in person........if and when we open to the public again!!
 

swami 805

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I use masking tape and paste epoxy, PC7. With aftco seats I use a file to rough up the inside to give the epxoy something to bite into. Most other brands have some kind of grooves.
 
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Woodhunter

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And a really nice job on the retro bamboo!! Love to see it in person........if and when we open to the public again!!
Yep if travel restrictions are lifted I will take it over to Utmost when you are on duty. It is a fun rod, capable of handeling 50 pound line. I have a hunch it may have been built for shark fishing in the San Diego area. I have a pre World War II Penn reel that matches it perfectly. If we ever have a Halibut season again I will take it out to the Rock Pile in the Straits of Juan de Fuca and bounce a heavy jig on the bottom. 14 ouncer below.



 
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Woodhunter

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To be honest, I don't think the grooves matter one bit. Again, a reel seat simply is not subjected to the twisting forces the grooves would be helpful in resisting. Looking at a few Fuji seats right now and these tiny grooves are not going to make a significant difference.

I'm also basing my opinions on reel seats I've removed/replaced. Rarely am I able to get one off without destroying it, and the few times I have been able to re-use the seat, it's obvious that it wasn't installed correctly to begin with (usually not enough epoxy used).
Below is the original reel seat on the Calcutta Rod. It was not usable, but it had a good bond, I had to cut it up with a 32 TPI hacksaw and peel it off with vise grips. So yea, install the grip correctly and it will never rotate.

 
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Woodhunter

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Looks like a drum sander with a long shaft on a drill motor will also work.
Yep a converted drum sander. I made a bunch in different sizes back when I made gunstocks, handy for final fitting the barrel channel. Some have straight shanks. Might as well use them for something.

Yea, a drill motor is fine for this. But I have 4 metal lathes, it is a lot faster for me to use the lathe.
 
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Hotroddin

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How many of us have ever actually had a reel seat come loose? And how many of those have seen it happen more than once?

I'm thinking we're overthinking this.
 
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