need help with LS Supreme "light stable" (new user)

Discussion in 'Fishing Rod Building Forum' started by steelfish, Feb 24, 2017.

  1. steelfish

    steelfish the BBB, Baja Bass Boy..

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    Im a new user of LS Supreme Duragloss "light stable"

    a little backgound, Im still kind of new to rod building but already have re-build 5 rods and everyone is getting better everytime.
    I started using Flexcoat, then I moved to Diamond II finish y both cases I got really good results using the epoxies, I was amazed by D-II finish but was getting a really short pot life, recently I got an order from a local fishing charter for re-building 8 rods and then I needed to get a bigger bottle of epoxy and I was recommended by fiend to use LS supreme since it has a long pot life and have good reviews, so I ordered a Gallon of product.

    well, what it worked for FC or Diamond II finish it just dont work with this finish, I mean, on a long decorative wrap I just getting tons of lumps and uneven epoxy, same deal when appling it on the guides, it was less noticiable because are shorter but really ugly on the decorative trim, its seems thats its not much "self leveling" like Diamond II is.
    I tryed a second coat of LS finsih but it only got worst, when normally on the 2nd coat I fix any noticiable fail on the finish but this time it was as bad as the 1st coat.
    I know that epoxy brands might have different formula and work different but I have tried three times now on scrap fishing rods but still no avail to get a nice crystal clear and smooth finish like with D-II.

    some facts:
    - Im pretty sure I mix 1-1 portions, the resin on LS is pretty thick, I warmed the resin on a small bottle inside of a cup with warm water for about 5 minutes and that make it more liquid and let me mix it and work easily but still with the problems with lumps and some bubbles.
    - Im pretty sure that I mix it slowly and for about 5 minutes, just like with the other finish brands, no bubbles were noticible when I poured on a flat alloy foil.
    - on LS Supreme Im not using heat at all (I use on D-II and FC, tho)
    - after 3 days my LS epoxy on the tester crap rod was still rubbery feel and spongy, is this normal?
    - I read the instructions and didnt found anything different compating to another finish brands
    - the rod dryer Im using is a CRB 18rpm
    - LS supreme seems to be less forgiving with normal nylon thread that has not enough CP, a lot of bleedthough sections, while with FC or DII this was covered with 2 coats of CP, LS supreme seems to need at least 3 coats of CP but I still havent test that out yet, I can deal with this easy, tho.

    Im not posting this as a complain or to bitch about this product but to ask for help and to recieve direction on how to work with this finish, I now have a gallon of it and want to make it work.
    Im living on San Felipe (a small town) in Baja, Mexico, the climate is almost the same than Phenix or Vegas, pretty cold on winter but it never snow and extremely hot in summer and dry, no humedity at all (normally)


    any help or tip will be golden
    thanks in advance

    Alex


    PS: one last comment, yesterday I did another test but this time using a small batch that I have of Diamond-II finish on the same scrap rod and the results were really good, with just some long traces with the brush the epoxy got pretty even with zero bubbles, so, I know I not doing something wrong on the mixing or 1-1 ratio, I just need to change something on my method when using LS supreme, but still havent found whats the problem.
     
  2. FAT CAT

    FAT CAT FAT CAT

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    Alex, I wish I could help you with the LS Supreme, but I've never used it, so I have nothing to advise about it.

    We all have to pay a price for education and if I were you I'd stop trying to use the LS and get some D-II or Flexcoat that you've had success with. You can always go back and work out the problems with the LS at a later time. In the future when trying different finishes buy a small amount to test before trying it on a rod (this works for everything BTW).
     
  3. steelfish

    steelfish the BBB, Baja Bass Boy..

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    you know I was actually thinking on getting just 16oz of D-II epoxy to finish the pendings 8 rods and after that continue with the testing on LS Supreme, I have seen some amazing jobs with the LS epoxy that I found difficult to think that I will not make it work at least similar to FC or DII, but Im sure that it wont happen without any external help.

    I sent an email to U-40 factory few days ago to check what can they add to my procedires but haven gotten any answer yet

    thanks for advice
     
  4. K. D.

    K. D. Member

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    I used to use that finish, but never had that problem. It is your process. first if you don't, I would suggest using syringes to measure to make exactly 50/50. mix 3ml of each part to minimize problems with uneven ratio, per it's inventor Ralph O'quin. Forget the clock to mix by. Mix with a small flat blade spatula, to be able to scrape side of mixing cup, and mix until you don't see anymore wispiness/cloudiness in mix, not by "times up" . If you are seeing bumpiness and waves in your finish or even bubbles, you are applying too much, working with it too long. If you apply after it starts to set up, any bubbles that appear from the threads can't float up thru the thickening finish to burst so stay suspended. You have to learn to get it mixed fast (not whipping in bubbles) pour out on flat surface, apply it then leave it alone. If it is starting to set up and you are still messing with it, you are keeping it from leveling out. If you put on too much then "footballs" will form because it is trying to drip off, but can't quite but will not level out since too much. Finally a tip to help you mix more evenly without leaving unmixed finish clinging to mixing container surface, "put the thinnest part in your container first and this usually is the hardener" . I personally use small stainless steel cups that restaurant sometimes serve condiments like tartar sauce in. Last a life time. I have many times mixed very small parts of A&B since I use a syringe and am precise on it measure.
     
  5. SouthBayKiller

    SouthBayKiller I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    It sounds like it could be a mixture ratio issue, or not completely mixing it. I've never used that particular epoxy, but i have had that same issue with flex coat when I was rushing.

    Also agree if it's lumpy, it's likely too much finish applied at once or moving it after its set enough to not self level again.

    Might want to try mixing more carefully and try and test apply a thinner coat and see if you still have the issue?
     
  6. cmepen

    cmepen I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Quote - Im pretty sure I mix 1-1 portions, the resin on LS is pretty thick, I warmed the resin on a small bottle inside of a cup with warm water for about 5 minutes and that make it more liquid and let me mix it and work easily but still with the problems with lumps and some bubbles.

    The addition of heat will cause the epoxy to set up more rapidly. Is it possible to mix without he heat?
    If so I would try mixing with no heat. I would then pour onto foil allowing for longer pot life. If there are bubbles hit is quickly with heat to eradicate the bubbles. Then apply. I hope this helps.
     
  7. mike garrahan

    mike garrahan TheSabreGuy

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    There are a couple of things that you might try. Usually a lumpy uneven finish is caused by too much epoxy. After you have applied all of the finish with long strokes let the rod sit with the guides up for at least one minute. Any excess epoxy will drop to the bottom of the wraps and you can remove any excess with another couple of long strokes with your brush. Also you might try a drying motor that turns slower. My motors turn very slow like 3 or 4 rpm and they work fine. The faster motor might be causing the epoxy to move in funny ways especially with an epoxy that has a long pot life.
     
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  8. steelfish

    steelfish the BBB, Baja Bass Boy..

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    Lots of good infor here

    I was mixing it with the proper rod building plastic cups and the pour it into a flat alluminuim foil but this time I will try it with the same SS cups, I have some in my house
    btw, Im using 3ml rod building syringes that I get from a flexcoat kit some months ago, same syringes were used on Diamond II with no issues.


    I will try to to a thin coat, I was supedly using a thin coat but since many guys say that lumps appear on heavy coats I will test using a coat as thinner as I could and then add a second thin coat next day.


    this epoxy brand have a particular characteristic, the resin is pretty pretty thick, I mean, I had problems to take resin with the syringe from the stock bottle, it was until it got bit warmed (before mix) by hotwater and a cup that I could take 3ml with the syringe, even the instructions on U-40 webpage says that you have to warm a bit the resin part before mixing it but never the hardener


    this sounds like a plan, but I cannot get a slower rpm motor easily here in Baja, I might try to turn by hand but not if I have to be 5hrs rotating since is a long pot life epoxy, read somewhere that while with the rest of the epoxies the time rotating on the drier is an aver. of 3-4 hrs with this LS epoxy is at least 6hrs.
     
  9. mike garrahan

    mike garrahan TheSabreGuy

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    If you can find an old bar-b-que rotissierre motor it is pretty easy to adapt it to work as a drying motor. You just have to attach a 2" PVC cap to the motor and add three thumb screws or bolts. Most of them turn very slow, especially the Farberware motors. I think they are only 1.5 or 2 RPM. I have old rotissierre motors that I have been using for 10 or 12 years.
     
  10. steelfish

    steelfish the BBB, Baja Bass Boy..

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    cool, thanks good idea, I will look for that on fleabay or for on local fleamarkets, I was told that the motors of a microwave work too, but dont know the rpm on them
     
  11. SouthBayKiller

    SouthBayKiller I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Might be a way to wire in a dimmer switch or similar contraption to slow the motor. I've never done this myself and I would consult someone with more electronic knowledge than myself. That being said I have seen some fantastic work of making things work in Baja, a simple electric motor should be child's play for someone in your town!
     
  12. K. D.

    K. D. Member

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    My dryer motor is 18 rpm that I got years and years ago at Clemens (now out of business) and I love it, have had zero probs. I should have mentioned before that I usually put on a very thin coat to SEAL up everything before the last coat.
     
  13. steelfish

    steelfish the BBB, Baja Bass Boy..

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    that what I like of any rod building community, lots of guys that want to help and share knowleage.

    I have a friend that is ingineer in electronics, I will ask him if he knows something that could work and how to make it work, I always wanted a variable speed drier, to this is it
     
  14. K. D.

    K. D. Member

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    That was my profession
     
  15. Cubeye

    Cubeye I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    Did you say you use the same syringes for mixing the different brands of epoxy? And you did not have a problem with Flex Coat and Diamond II? Maybe you should try using new syringes to mix LS Supreme. By doing so, you will eliminate the possibility of cross contamination.
     
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  16. Nirvana

    Nirvana Well-Known "Member"

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    Never mind my email Alex, you got all your answers here instead of the other place (as usual). I'm not sure the dryer speed is a problem, I use my CPW to apply finish at speed, hand turn for ten minutes then stick it in the dryer. And its a 30/36 from Batson. It also helps to put holes in the caps of the finish bottles and just leave the syringes in them. Turn the resin bottle over slowly and watch for a big bubble to float up. You can then draw the resin out slowly, squirt it in the cup and stick the syringe back in the bottle.
     
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  17. steelfish

    steelfish the BBB, Baja Bass Boy..

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    Well that's a possibility, I'll order new syringes for the LS and try again



    Cool tip Mark, and thanks for your previous Email
     
  18. K. D.

    K. D. Member

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    Yes I just epoxy the syringe in the cap, after drilling a tight fit hole in the cap, with Rod Bond to minimize drawing bubbles into the syringe. I doubt the little residue in the syringe from another variety would be a problem, but having extra on hand is a good thing. I like the U40 syringes that has only the nylon tip of the plunger as the seal so it doesn't get stuck in the barrel if not used for a while. Leave the plunger withdrawn all the way while storing it and when you get ready to use, push the plunger to inject the air into the bottle to help push the finish out of the bottle and into the syringe.
    I remember years ago coming down your way and fished on the Capt. Veaga (sp) for a week trip. The only thing I didn't much care for was the two road blocks I had to go thru down and two back up manned by what looked like teenagers with M16s, LOL.
     
  19. north coast

    north coast Newbie

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    You got some great advice here .
    I can't add more except I'm wondering about the gallon of finish.
    Good lord that's a lot of epoxy .
    I've found that this stuff has a shelf life.
    I used to buy kits on eBay just for better prices,I now only get it from the bigger more popular places simply because of the turn over. Chances of getting a fresher batch is better.
    I have 3 or 4 (2oz and 4 oz) downstairs right now that are unusable for good rods because one part has crystallized or severely yellowed.i found the stuff will still harden just fine so I use it for other stuff like gaffs, jigs etc..but not on rods. You might want to do a bar or some tables or something to move some of that epoxy along. :)
     
  20. Cubeye

    Cubeye I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    My old stuff has also yellowed, but it took a LOT of years for it to do so. My last rod was black and yellow, so it didn't matter. Hahaha. It also does solidify a little, but with a little heart from my hair dryer, it dissolves back to its original state.
     

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