Modify Your Palomar Knot!

Scuba Chris

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  • May 17, 2016
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    Christopher Takahashi
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    For years i've been showing my modifications in the field on tying my modified palomar knots. But it was in the field & not enhance or explained thoroughly in detail. Recently an angler was complaining about using a 6lb monofilament line that he used to tie a palomar knot & the knot would pull apart during a heavy strike.

    In this case the line & strength he was using was the same brand & strength that i had problems with as well. But only in 6lb & 8lb strengths. This brand is known for its "glossy surface". I've suspected that the smooth surface texture in lighter gauges have caused my earlier attempts using this monofilament to unravel, having the knot pull itself apart.

    I've had this happen using lighter braid line gauges in the past as well. So i've tried to create more "friction" so these problems will never happen again. And they haven't. The line friction caused by the modified knot doesn't cut into the knot itself. It holds very well. Years of trolling, jigging, plugging, whipping & dunking have shown me these modified knots do hold.

    How can i tell? If properly tied the line will break along the line itself, never at the knot.

     

    nefarious235

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    RWP

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    Cool video, I like the format. The line failed at the knot (as expected). The breaking lbs don't matter without a baseline of what the line breaks at. Most lines are under rated substantially, specifically for the 20-40% loss from knots. So while 98lbs out of 100 is impressive, 98 out of 120-140lbs is not.
     

    F.I.S.H.Y

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  • Sep 27, 2019
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    Cool video, I like the format. The line failed at the knot (as expected). The breaking lbs don't matter without a baseline of what the line breaks at. Most lines are under rated substantially, specifically for the 20-40% loss from knots. So while 98lbs out of 100 is impressive, 98 out of 120-140lbs is not.
    What are you saying??? In the video they where testing 100lb mono, it broke at around 100lbs. What does that have to do with 120-140lb? :confused:
     

    F.I.S.H.Y

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  • Sep 27, 2019
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    I said exactly what I was saying. Most line that isn't IGFA line breaks at a weight much higher than what's printed on the package.
    That makes more sense. All the brands of mono I have used break at what they are rated, most brands do, at least from what I tested. Izorline, ande, and Berkeley trilene all break at advertised ratings. Pretty sure the one in the video is the same since most Palomar knots break over 90% lines breaking strength.
     
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    RWP

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    That makes more sense. All the brands of mono I have used break at what they are rated, most brands do, at least from what I tested. Izorline, ande, and Berkeley trilene all break at advertised ratings. Pretty sure the one in the video is the same since most Palomar knots break over 90% lines breaking strength.
    I have tested a lot of lines and I have found that very few break at what they are rated to break at. I am referring to the line itself, without any knots in it.

    In my experience, most lines are under rated by 20-40%. Ande 30lb mono leader, which I use regularly and have tested various spools of, has consistently broken between 40 and 42lbs.

    This is static load of course, which is also pretty meaningless in a fishing application, but that's how I tested it. If you use the rated weight on the package of line to determine how strong the knot is, then yes, I agree. There will be plenty of knots that are 95-110% of the rated strength of the line.

    That doesn't get into the fact that different knots handle the line being shocked with load differently. The Palomar knot is a very small knot. It absorbs almost no shock and distributes no load across the line at the connection. Knots don't usually fail, the weakest point is in one of two places (assuming the line isn't compromised). The line will fail at the knot (where the main line meets the knot), or the line will fail where it wraps around the terminal tackle. Doubling though the terminal tackle helps alleviate the latter.

    Lastly, in an actual fishing environment, the durability of a knot plays a huge part in the strength. If a 95% knot is a 60% knot after the third cast, does it really matter how strong it was when you started? Some knots can cause additional stress on the main line at the connection (usually a smaller knot puts more stress on the connection). Some knots are more susceptible from abrasion damage that others.

    All of this being said, I will say that the best knot for you, is the one that you can tie well. For me, I have had too many failures with the Palomar knot to rely on it. I actually used it for a long time, I've watched the videos, made sure it was tied correctly, tried all the improved versions and it has always let me down. If it works for you, keep using it, there's no reason to change.
     
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    Crowman

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    For years i've been showing my modifications in the field on tying my modified palomar knots. But it was in the field & not enhance or explained thoroughly in detail. Recently an angler was complaining about using a 6lb monofilament line that he used to tie a palomar knot & the knot would pull apart during a heavy strike.

    In this case the line & strength he was using was the same brand & strength that i had problems with as well. But only in 6lb & 8lb strengths. This brand is known for its "glossy surface". I've suspected that the smooth surface texture in lighter gauges have caused my earlier attempts using this monofilament to unravel, having the knot pull itself apart.

    I've had this happen using lighter braid line gauges in the past as well. So i've tried to create more "friction" so these problems will never happen again. And they haven't. The line friction caused by the modified knot doesn't cut into the knot itself. It holds very well. Years of trolling, jigging, plugging, whipping & dunking have shown me these modified knots do hold.

    How can i tell? If properly tied the line will break along the line itself, never at the knot.

    An overhand knot isn't a Granny knot. A Granny knot is when you try to tie a square knot and don't have the rope and tag end going through the same side where it will slip and not hold.
     
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    Scuba Chris

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  • May 17, 2016
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    I only use the palomar knot on mono/fluoro 40lb and under, braid 65lb & under. It's my strongest knot if i stay with this. I don't use this knot over the line strengths/types i just described as there are stronger knots to use on thicker lines.
     
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    TravisAZ

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    I appreciate the time you put into the video, but the palomar is a weak knot, improved or otherwise.

    This guy benchmarked the line breaking strength, FWIW. Palomar did not fail at the knot. Your other points about strike force and knot life may be vaild, but your point about under-rated line was not, in this case.

    Doing my research because a guy who captained a well known SD boat for 2 decades told me the palomar is the only knot he uses under 80lb, ever. He felt like he got bit more with a palomar and obviously didn't have a problem with breaking knots or he wouldn't still be using it.

     
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