Mexico bans Bluefin Tuna fishing -- official thread till we figure it out....or implode.

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maxpowers

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The guys hurting the most are the overnight to 3 days sporties. If the tuna fishing in US water turned out to be terrific, who in their right mind will forked over 3-4 times as much money to fish on the SD short range sporties? The SD fleet will also lose out on the OC/LA/Ventura fishermen who normally made the trips to fish for exotics when they are so much closer to home. This El Nino may turn out to be a death knell for them.
 
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jer dog

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The guys hurting the most are the overnight to 3 days sporties. If the tuna fishing in US water turned out to be terrific, who in their right mind will forked over 3-4 times as much money to fish on the SD short range sporties? The SD fleet will also lose out on the OC/LA/Ventura fishermen who normally made the trips to fish for exotics when they are so much closer to home. This El Nino may turn out to be a death knell for them.
I w ill always pick SD short range boat's over the rest because' of the RSW fish hole's and customer service ....................
 
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?? fisherman

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Ok.. Here is Resolution C-13-02... which is governing this whole mess..

https://www.iattc.org/PDFFiles2/Resolutions/C-13-02-Pacific-bluefin-tuna.pdf

Resolve #1 says... In the IATTC Convention Area, the commercial catches of bluefin tuna by all the CPCs during 2014 shall not exceed 5,000 metric tons.

Once again, it clearly states the commercial catches of bluefin. I guess I can somehow understand if they feel that this can be applied to sportboats, but the way this is written, it is not for private boaters.

My opinion is the memo put out on 7/14 was not meant for private boaters, but someone read it, and opened a can of worms by asking about it. Now the Mexican Officials might be running with it to mean more then it really does.

Anyways.. Print this out and take it with you when you fish the pens!!! I will see you down there on Thursday!!


I may almost agree with you on the fact that this might not have originally been meant for the the private boaters. But at this point I think by fishing the pens, you are doing no better than they (Mexico) by imposing this ban. Whether or not fishing the pens really had a impact on this is questionable, but it's definitely not without reason that's for sure.

I've stated before that I was never a big fan of fishing tuna pens with a bunch of other boats all around me...... it just feels a bit fake for my liking. But I can surely see how many of these guys working and running these pens finally had enough of everyone pimping & crowding all around these pens....... not just while they were finally in place, but also while they were slowly in tow. To keep fishing these pens is not a good idea at all IMO, and flat out stupid.

If you want to hold out on using that piece of paper and fishing the BFT. then at least do so by fishing far away from the pens, as the Bluefin are scattered far and wide right now....... maybe not in the same concentration as at the pens, but they are still out there non the less. Go out and be a hunter instead of a mooch.

The unknown fisherman:p:
 
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Done_Deal

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So when this year's quota was announced, these same politically powerful people joined together...something they almost never do (they are rivals and really hate each other)...and DEMANDED that if CONAPESCA was going to shut down the fishery for them, they were damned well going to have to shut it down for everyone...or there would be Hell to pay. The government (at a level higher than CONAPESCA) thought it over, and decided that the request was reasonable. Yes, the amount of bluefin caught recreationally is trivial, but from an environmental standpoint, every little bit helps. And it will make for good publicity (not bad) with the environmental community in the US. The Mexican Government regretted making the decision, but not much really. Sport anglers are a tiny group in reality, and CONAPESCA has actually been ordered to do what they can to improve relations (save your comments). This one time, they were swinging in the other direction.

The decision was made long ago. It was not publicized so as to avoid a months-long headache. And it will take one HECK of a negotiation to overturn it.

I would be interested in learning the source for the above stated information.
 
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NGSD1

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If anyone thinks Mexico is handling this poorly, just check out the stupidity going on over the Shark Attack closure discussion in Manhattan Beach. We have our own issues here.
 
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?? fisherman

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@Dreambuilder35........ with all due respect

We've basically already went over and hashed out much of what you are saying. Bottom line is it doesn't really matter what the info is your finding that says this was meant to apply only to the commercial boats.

If the powers that be decide to twist this into something different, then they pretty much can do that and there's not a whole lot you or I can do, other than try to convince them otherwise by verbal protest, not supporting their country or a number of other ways.

When this thing first reared its head just yesterday, I was saying the same as you, as I read a few different letters that were posted here on BD. Since that time, enough additional info has come out for me to realize that I'm fairly certain this immediate no take of BFT in Mexican waters is also meant for the private boaters as well.

It sucks man, and I want you to be right in the worst way, but I'm quickly reminded of how many of our fishing rights were taken away not long ago right here in the US...... all while some were also quoting what seemed like solid wording making claims it could not be done................ well guess what, the closures are now in effect.

I would love to be way wrong in all of this, and you 100% correct! But this much I know...... to continue fishing the tuna pens is asking for nothing but trouble...... I always had a feeling something like this would happen, and actually much sooner to be honest.

In my honest opinion, I highly doubt we would be having this discussion if people would have bailed on fishing the pens and had searched out the BFT on their own. Just like learning to adapt and fish the chovy, guys need to stop fishing the pens and learn to get on the hunt again and search out the BFT without mooching off the pens.

The unknown fisherman:p:
 
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jer dog

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Refer to posts numbers 403 if anyone wants to know how this was written...



I don't plan on fishing the pens.. that was just a figure of speech. But I will however fish Mexican waters, and I WILL keep up to my limits of BFT. This resolution was clearly written for Commercial Vessels. Without writing another book here, I will just say that my family has had a house in Mexico for 35 years. I've dealt with a lot of the crap they try to pull. I don't take their crap though. I am the one that stands up to them and says... "Nope". Let them fine me, impound the boat, whatever they want to do. I had an incident several years ago that I had to fight them on. I had to go so far as to get a friend involved, the Governor of South Carolina. It all worked out in my favor. Anyways, if the right people get their hands on the info that I have presented, this whole thing will get cleared up. If everyone just rolls over because they have interpreted this as applying to everyone, then I guess their will be more bft south for me.
good luck.
 
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Rodless_Jim

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Refer to posts numbers 403 if anyone wants to know how this was written...

I don't plan on fishing the pens.. that was just a figure of speech. But I will however fish Mexican waters, and I WILL keep up to my limits of BFT. This resolution was clearly written for Commercial Vessels. Without writing another book here, I will just say that my family has had a house in Mexico for 35 years. I've dealt with a lot of the crap they try to pull. I don't take their crap though. I am the one that stands up to them and says... "Nope". Let them fine me, impound the boat, whatever they want to do. I had an incident several years ago that I had to fight them on. I had to go so far as to get a friend involved, the Governor of South Carolina. It all worked out in my favor. Anyways, if the right people get their hands on the info that I have presented, this whole thing will get cleared up. If everyone just rolls over because they have interpreted this as applying to everyone, then I guess their will be more bft south for me.

That's your call to make. CONAPESCA has closed the fishery in Mexican waters. You don't have the right to come to your own interpretation of the law...and CONAPESCA IS the lawful authority in this case. If they say you can't take bluefin in Mexican waters, guess what? You can't. And there's no paper you can show anyone involved that will defend you breaking Mexican law. Your personal feelings on the matter (and mine!) have no standing.

I sincerely hope you change your mind. If you try it, I really hope you don't get caught. The Mexicans are going to enforce this. You could lose your boat...or worse.
 
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afraser

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So how do we make it worth their while to let rec fisherman take bft again? $20 per trip stamp to take bft? There has to be a price that makes it work.
 
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vincentek9

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OK, I think I need to throw out a couple of points that I don't think I have made strongly enough:

1. This is not the fault of SAC. It came as a shock to everyone.

2. I don't think the game is over yet. I'm 100% certain that SAC is trying to resolve the issue, and they stand a chance of succeeding. What I'm hearing out of CONAPESCA is strongly against...and I wouldn't lay any money down...but this could turn...maybe even pretty quickly.

3. This law/rule was on the books last year too. By and large, Mexico just doesn't issue closures for one type of fishing (commercial) and not another (recreational). Nobody did anything about the sport boats fishing the pens last year, and that is what got the commercial boys in a lather...because the regs as they currently stand don't really allow for a commercial-only closure. Closed is closed.

4. I am certainly going to advocate for a change in that policy. No, I don't carry any weight to speak of, but I live among a lot of the decision-makers, and most of the time they are interested in my opinion...on a wide variety of topics. People are going to hear about this distinction, and maybe we can get it changed. It's a pretty daunting legislative process, though, and may not be either easy or fast.

5. If I had to guess, I would say that we have a 50-50 chance of getting this changed at some point, but I don't think it will happen before next year, and maybe not until later than that.

OK, go ahead and flame away...


I honestly think Rodless Jim (and a FEW others) are the only ones actually putting informative, intelligent, and non-flaming information. it just kind of sucks how i have to skim through a dozen posts bashing Mexico before I reach something useful. Thanks for keeping your cool and keeping things on the point rodless jim (and a FEW others). :appl:
 
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maxpowers

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X2 there's a reason why I happily make that drive.

Triton Sportsfishing just posted they are doing a 4 AM to 4 PM run for $100 and limited to 20 anglers. Imagine if they are catching 20-30 lbs YFT and 10 lbs yellowtail along with a few dodos on their trips, you wouldn't think local people will opt for that vs spending $250 - 500 to fish the same water and have to deal with the drive down and back and missing work? As much as the customer service tended to be better on the SD fleet, and the available RSW, fishing close meant that the fish are cooled and cut up in a few hours then packed on ice. Seem liked that is what Private boaters have been doing anyway.
 
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maxpowers

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I found more info regarding Resolution C-13-02.. This says it ALL!!

It is a lot of reading.. but here is the main point...

....When NMFS is informed that the 5,000 metric ton Commission-wide
limit has been met (based on information provided by the IATTC
Director) and that the 500 metric ton catch limit is expected to be
reached (based on landings receipts, data submitted in logbooks, and
other available fishery information), NMFS will publish a notice in the
Federal Register announcing that the targeting, retaining,
transshipping or landing of Pacific bluefin tuna will be prohibited on
a specified effective date through December 31, 2014. Upon that
effective date, a commercial fishing vessel of the United States may

not be used to target, retain on board, transship, or land any
additional PBF in the Convention Area during the period specified in

the announcement. Any PBF already on board a fishing vessel on the
effective date may be retained on board,
transshipped, and/or landed, to the extent authorized by applicable
laws and regulations, provided that they are landed within 14 days
after the effective date.


http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2014-05-16/html/2014-11182.htm

So, any official who says this bft suspension applies to private boaters does not know what they are talking about, or they are trying to pull the wool over your eyes!!!


Why are you posting USA quota and regulations in regard to Mexico closing their waters to harvesting bluefins? The link you posted is for the US Federal Register...
 
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writebrian

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Has anyone gave any thought to the fact that the landings reported over 1300 bluefin caught TODAY? How is that possible with the closure and why would they report the fact that they broke the law 1300 times to the public (including anyone at Conapesca with internet access)?
 
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maxpowers

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Has anyone gave any thought to the fact that the landings reported over 1300 bluefin caught TODAY? How is that possible with the closure and why would they report the fact that they broke the law 1300 times to the public (including anyone at Conapesca with internet access)?

Fished already caught and in possession are allowed. They also allowed up to 14 days to transport those fish thru their water. Tis just meant that boats that went out on jun 14 for 1-15 days are allowed to keep the fish they have already caught prior to the memo.
 
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Rodless_Jim

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So how do we make it worth their while to let rec fisherman take bft again? $20 per trip stamp to take bft? There has to be a price that makes it work.

My first response when I see posts like this is always disbelief. But then it occurs to me, maybe you really believe it's that simple. And no, Aaron, this is not a swipe at you. Apparently an awful lot of people sincerely believe a quick bribe can solve the problem. But that idea is not only wrong, it is actually counter-productive.

ASIDE: You all do realize that people who work for CONAPESCA read Bloody Decks, right? You realize that what you just wrote is going to infuriate some very honorable people? People who actually work hard on the Mexican side to make sure you can fish in Mexican waters? Talk about shooting yourself in the foot...

In any case, the entire concept is misplaced. Yes, you can bribe a police officer in Mexico. Very easily. If you want to do business in a specific municipality, you can probably bribe some of the aldermen, and maybe even the mayor. God knows Walmart did. But these are officials in small places, with no one really watching them. That kind of corruption is practically expected by the towns they serve, because the town doesn't pay them squat. The town is happy to allow the Mayor to take the occasional bribe, because part of his job description is to know which bribes to take and which to refuse. Literally, to choose which corrupt business or organization gets a building permit...because some are very obviously better than others for the town and its people.

But even then, these corrupt petty officials have gotten very smart about it. They've seen too many of their peers end up in prison (yes, Mexico prosecutes and convicts corruption cases...one of our closest friends is the Mexican Attorney General for Financial Crime, and he takes his job very seriously). They make sure that whatever they receive is kept segregated from them, in a way that no one can prove. A really cushy job for a lazy-ass youngest son who couldn't seem to finish university, perhaps...

As you move higher up the ladder to the State and Federal levels, there are a lot fewer people who can be bribed at all, the precautions they take are immense, you can't be sure if your money will buy you anything at all. And the cost (if you even risk it) is enormous. Millions of dollars. Mansions for nephews. A seat on the board of your Fortune 500 company.

The key point, though, is that very, very few of the people at that level can be bribed at all. Period.

One thing to bear in mind is that Mexicans are a very proud people. Very proud. Most of them still believe in a sense of personal honor and they take it seriously. Ask any of the Mexican-Americans who have been posting in this thread, they'll tell you and make no bones about it.

My friends at CONAPESCA are like that. Some from old and legendary Mexican families; many young warriors with plenty of indigenous blood in their veins. They are kind and patient, and very, very dedicated. Their job is to protect and and regulate Mexico's fisheries, and they mean to do so. Period. And most of them are anglers. They won't be catching any more bluefin either...not until next year.

And no, none of them would take a bribe...not even a FUCKING HUGE bribe.

As for a tag system, that's not what they're after. If this came out of the State Government of Baja California (Norte), I'm sure a fee from each angler could fix it...as long as that money went to the State of Baja California. CONAPESCA is Federal, and among the most honorable group of people you ever want to meet.
 
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maxpowers

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Good lord.. some of you are clueless.. Read what it refers to..
...waters of the IATTC Convention Area in 2014.

Read the whole thing... who it involves.. yes.. it does involve the USA.. recognizing the resolves that were set forth.

The US agree to the memo and directed NOAA and NFMS to set certain restrictions on US commercial interests to not exceed the quota set about for each country by the commission. How each country meet its quota is up to its regulatory bodies. In this case the NFMS is the leading regulatory body for the US implementation of its quota. What or how Mexico do to meets its obligation is up to its regulatory bodies. You can't extrapolate an agreed to memo from a convention of delegates to meanteveryone must follow the US lead.
 
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Steel Leader

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I have argued rules and regs with the conpesca guy on several occasions, He clearly did not know the very regs he was to be liaison of. It would not surprise me one bit if this is a complete misunderstanding/misinterpretation of the written law by conpesca, and now not wanting to admit they were wrong, will just go with it. Then next year act like they're doing some generous thing by actually following the language as it is written. This kind of stupidity is by no means limited to Mexican government, our own government matches and even surpasses this level of ineptitude all the time.
 
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Solandri A

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I did some more research regarding the Exclusive Economic Zone that extends 200 miles beyond the 12 mile territorial zone, and it looks like they can in fact regulate anything they want! Crap!!!
Just for clarity, the EEZ only applies to economic resources like fish, oil, etc. and pollution. International waters begin 12 nm out, and countries cannot restrict safe passage outside that distance. e.g. The U.S. can ban foreign purse seiners from fishing in its 200 nm EEZ. But the seiners are are free to travel within the EEZ without U.S. permission as long as they stay at least 12 nm away.

This was the distinction lost among many Chinese during the U.S. spy plane incident in 2001. The U.S. Navy was conducting the flights 12+ nm off China's coast, so was acting within their rights under International law. If the Navy had been fishing 12+ nm off China's coast, then China would have been within their rights to stop the USN. FWIW, there's usually a Russian and Chinese "trawler" stationed 12 miles off the U.S. coast every time there's a military rocket launch or test flight.

(Realistically, unless you're a Navy vessel, you are best off getting permission from any country whose coast you sail off of even if you plan to stay 12+ nm off the entire trip. An emergency or change of weather may force you to seek refuge within their coastal waters. And as many have found out, if you're 15 nm out and the Mexican Navy says you're 10 nm out and they'd like to board you and see your papers, you don't argue with the guy with a 50 cal pointed at your boat.)

Incidentally, before you bash Mexico for enforcing their EEZ, the U.S. was one of the first countries to claim it and was pivotal to having the EEZ formalized under International law in 1982.
 
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maxpowers

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Rodless_Jim

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HAHA... violate what rule? Did you not read it?? There is no rule to violate if you are on your own private boat.

CONAPESCA makes the rules. They have absolute authority to do so. It doesn't matter if you can find what you're looking for in any of these posted documents. If CONAPESCA closes a fishery in Mexico, it is legally closed.

Your argument seems to be that you have found a loophole that exempts you from a law that applies to everyone else. OK, fine. I sincerely hope you never have to make that argument in a Mexican courtroom.
 
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