Discussion in 'San Diego Long Range fishing Reports' started by etwizard, Aug 5, 2012.
yeah, the xxh will bottom out on a cow
The SS 6463XXXXH is in my opinion perfect for cows. It is by far and away my favorite cow stick and I have one heck of a lot of cow sticks.
I am always amazed how folks say it is great on the kite but not on fly lining bait. Once the kite is hooked up the rest of the fight is exactly the same as fly lining bait unless you are using big bait hooks on the kite.
Folks are amazed at how fast they get a kite fish in and do not realize they can do the same thing with bait. This stick has a ton of back bone for lift yet has a reasonably soft tip due to the lack of graphite going all the way up. Perfect. JMHO
Personally. I like the Calstar 7465H. Nice bend on it with a heavy weight. Seeker 2x4 with the extra length and soft tip, bends nicely under load. Calstar 770XXH, used it in January. Nice rod, I put an Accurate 12 on it and used it well.
For the next trip. My buddies on the trip have been bragging about how nice the Phoenix 3x was. Nice and flexible and good for your back. Also got a Black Hole 3rd gen at the Fred Hall show. Will see which one works best.
If I didn't have them and needed to buy one for a cow trip. I would buy a 770xxh.
Does anybody know anything about the United Composites? Viper 80-130 or the invictus 100- unlimited?
you have had good luck with your 4x and a tip o the cap to ya
no matter how powerful the rod
it's only going to hold you in good stead
on the strength of your terminal connection
if the force exerted supercedes the ability to keep connected
Pretty sure my 4x is retired. I have straightened, pulled and broke too many hooks on it.
Last year was no different. Lost two good ones. One on the flyline the other on the kite.
4X has been no bueno to me.
Some people have a feel for a 4X and some don't. Its nice to have options so you can find what works for you
the 4x is not a rail rod, it is a kill stick. you hook it, you kill it. it is not for the faint of heart, light line or small hooks. it is an, i am going to kill you now with big gear. i only fish mine at night and or on the kite. even i do not like to hold on to it for too long, it can kill me to, especially when i put my 80 s on it. goooooooing
Caught my 2nd place 236lb cow at Clipperton this year on a 770xxh roller all the way. Glad I had it. Plenty of power and as anyone who has been lucky enough to fish Clipperton there a 100 pounder fights like anywhere elses 200 pounder and a 200 punder just fights like nothing you can imagine.
I gotta go with that. Couple more points.
Had a hook pull on a tuna, I think a Bluefin. Asked Bruce Smith about "pulling hooks" as in, "Did I pull too hard." Now, I have fished with several really smart and seasoned captains and trust in the things they have told me. Bruce is right there with the cream of the crop, and a pretty savvy angler, too. He said something like; "Steve, who do you think you are? Do you really think you can pull hard enough to pull a hook out of tuna's mouth? " Point taken. If the hook is going to pull and the fish is going to swim away, it's meant to be.
And as far as fishing a rod with a soft tip, I don't rely on the rod tip to aid in casting a Sardine. It's an underhand lob for me. Backpeddle the spool a bit to encourage the bait to swim away from the boat. And if you're fishing the Salami, you can cast them but there are other ways to deploy the big baits.
Wait a second. You crap things out bigger than me.... Mike is like 6 ft. 40 inches tall and about 270, built like a linebacker. If Mike was a tuna he would win the jackpot about 9.5 times out of 10. And the 4X can kill you??? Mike, I am shocked..... Hey whatever happened to your SS80 XH cow rods.
By the way, Steve K is right on the money. If a hook is gonna pull its gonna pull. I don't break connections.... Okay, I rarely break connections but only if Scotch is involved..... A lot of Scotch. Pulling hard is what I like. As I always say I just love the hookup and the release/gaff... Everything in between is classified as work and maaaan I retired a while ago cuz I hate work....
Again, If a rod works great as a Kite stick it sure will work as a bait stick. At least that is my take on it.
Like anything else what works for you is the best. Don't let anyone tell you what you love is not right.... It is just not right for them.
I guess there is no easy answer. I have pulled hooks. I have been dragged around the boat again and again, and in the end, many times I had very little left in the tank. The lift, lift, lift was like someone far away screaming at a scarecrow. I guess if I got to 'kill' the cow early and still keep it , well that would be a good thing. My 760h is a terrific stick. It is not too stiff. It is stiff enough until the end, then I want STIFF.er. I think the cow rod needs heft but not too heavy. The weight isnt the issue during the battle. You're so pumped up and the weight you're pulling against is plenty. What difference does a few ounces make? I don't want to snap the tip or bottom out. If you bottom, you lose all your advantage.
In the earlier years, I fished it too soft. I didn't lose a fish, once I had em hooked. I had big trouble on the lift. I guess I still have some problems. The back is not what it once was, so I look for every advantage mechanicly.
770 xh. Vs 2x4? Is that the equation left on the table. I've never pulled on the 770, will have to. Pulled on the two x four and I know why so many folks like it.
So what say you all?
I have been building a lot of the Vipers and Invictus the last few months, best rail rod blanks on the market IMO. I have Seekers and Calstars here at the shop too, and in the last 3 mos every customer that has come in for a rail rod has pulled on all 3 and picked the United Composites hands down.
Agreed pulled hooks have nothing to do with the blank. If the hook was going to pull that was decided early on it the fight by the placement in the fishes mouth.
Same can be said for straightening a hook. If its in the fishes jaw bone its probably has a better chance then not its going to bend.
I also agree that if you like the action on the 4x model of any brand go for it!
For me the 4x is not coming any more. Superstition, bad luck whatever has me not loving my 4x any more. A separation is needed. Not sure if I will finalize it with a divorce but a separation is in order.
The OP asks about the 2x4 vs. the 770XH. Again its a personal preference thing. I like the 2x4 for the softer tip. And yes the softer tip has zero to do with cast ability. For my style I like the tip to load up quickly providing a softer cushion for the 10' or so topshot I am fishing these days. The 2x4 has a great back end as well. Big backbone for the rail. The softer tip makes it less than the ideal rod to lift when the fish is in the circles.
I usually put the reel close to or in full in the circles. Keep it on the rail and pump the rod on the rail. I am short (5'5") so the rail is perfect height for me anywhere on the boat. I turn the rod on the rail and follow the fish in the circles and wind down in low gear.
It works for me very well others mileage may vary however.
fishing the salami is far different than the dine
got a 12/0 in him
hey have @ it
i have a few saved hooks from the bend imparted from a frisky one
can't win them all
want a stiff rod?
fish the 3x5
JohnTFT "turns" the rod to follow the circles, a very effective technique at the endgame. Actually rolling the rod and keeping the spine of the rod working, pointing the tip at the fish. I've seen anglers, myself included, struggling somewhat at this point in the fight. I recall finishing off a fish in the corner and being coached to stand my ground, concentrating on lifting and that part about turning the handle, instead of moving the rod on the rail. One of the best at this I've seen at this is Jim Hall. David Choate is also a master at finishing off a fish.
I have stood next to David myself and watch him stand his ground, knees down in the corner. I have done the same. Even tried it one night in the bow in big seas (that was fun), its a real mixed bag when the boat is rising and falling and you are at gaff trying to be locked down. Too much locked on a very stiff rod and you can watch your cow say goodbye. So I guess this is really about skill and a the right rod. Seems like the arrow is starting to point to the 770 xh.....
Now if you really want to raise eyebrows..
I was just going to ask about the 3x5. I have a 1x3 for cow wannabe's, a couple of 2x4s, a 6463xxxh, and I recently picked up a 3x5. Haven't fished the 3x5 yet and I was beginning to believe I may have gone too stiff until I saw the favorable comments about the 6463xxxxh's. Seems like the 3x5 is a nice compromise on a xxxxh but I don't know (yet).
The 770XH is too soft for cows (for me). If you must get a 7' rod, the 770XXH is a better choice. Unless you want a softer tip and less lifting power for the end game. That is why I prefer the 7465XH. It is flexible and still has plenty of lift. It also lighter, has fewer guides and costs less.
To each their own!
- Jeff Burroughs
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