Line to leader system?

stairman

......
May 16, 2009
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doug
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yak and lowe duck hunting skiff but they identify as sportfishing crusiers
Sorry, but it's got nothing to do with stretch. We are pulling on Guadalupe sized tuna with a SIZE 2 HOOK!
Next time you go BFT fishing, check it out on a fish laying on the deck, try and see how a size 2 circle hook fits on the hinge of a 150 pounder!
When I started long ranging, I was told not to hunt for elephants with a peashooter.
So, now we are using peas for bullets (the hook being the issue)
Don't get me wrong, I'm glad this Bluefin is biting a little bit, just wish we could use a tad larger hook and actually have a decent chance.
9 bites yesterday on the tomahawk...used j hooks all day..all were hooked in the same place...corner of the jaw.ive looked at some small j hook designs and just cant see using a size 2 circle hook on 80 pound average fish. kinda funny that these young ( under 40) deckhands being amazed that the guy with the most fish on the boat was using old school cheap non ringed j hooks

Belly hook
80% I gentle underhand lob for good grade tunas. Especially long soak in mind. Lobs do not back fire

Belly hook
But in conditions with no wind and no current and no swell. For this bft, I will over hand cast with 30-50#. When I think a tad of damage to the bait is worth getting it away from the boat

I hold the line in my left hand to guide a bait away from the boat, after a lob. If the bait wants to swim back to the boat, I pull line in with my left hand. Like reins on a horse. Once the bait is pointed away from the boat I release the line from my left hand. Then fish off the spool

I nose hook. Only slide baits
You are missing some bites only belly hooking baits...yes the trend is today to belly and shoulder hook...but being stubborn for a couple reasons gets me more bites...2 out of 9 bites for me yesterday came when I finally got a larger then average bait that swam good but for what ever reason didnt get bit. After soaking it out 100 to 150 yards I reeled in my nose hooked baits at the rate a VERY HOT bait takes the line off the spool during those times where you find yourself saying oh shit this one is gonna get bit..25% of my bites on a given day bft fishing that I NEVER would have had with a belly hooked or shoulder hooked bait is enough to keep me doing things as I always have.
second reason is it seems to me that holding the propeller end of a bait still enough to get proper hook placement seems to take too long and knock more scales off....if your rod grips are covered in scales this is why.Knocked off scales mean one thing...damage...when I'm holding a bait to nose hook my hand only has firm contact on the skull the rest of my hand cradles a bait doing no damage
 
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ZZZZZ

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Dec 11, 2003
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Belly hook. Once done fishing the bait. I rip it off the hook and skip the hook back. Tangle free and chumming

I would shoulder hook to fish the bait back to the boat

I seat j hooks the same as a circle hook.
 
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stairman

......
May 16, 2009
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ramona /ca/usa
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doug
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yak and lowe duck hunting skiff but they identify as sportfishing crusiers
zzzzz. you would have a shoulder hooked bait spinning unless you went slower then a hot bait swims...much slower...even then it wouldnt look natural.
 
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okie man

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Oct 24, 2006
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kerry way
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Take a standard j hook and same size circle hook and lay them side by side. Most j hooks will have almost twice the gap between point and shank as the circle hook. When you look at most small(1/0-3/0) circle hooks, that gap is only 1/4-1/2” . Now look at how thick the jaw bone of a 100# tuna is. I personally like a j hook when using smaller hooks for large fish. 2 hooks I like most are mustad hoodlums and Vmc tuna tamers. I’ve used 4/0 tuna tamers with 25# plus of drag with no bending at all. Proper hook selection and good connections are far more important than leader/topshot length in my humble opinion
 

Steve K

Hey, I'm gettin' bit...
Jan 2, 2005
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Caught an archived show on LTHU today, Captain/Owner of the San Diego out of Seaforth, Ryan Bostian. He spoke about hooking Sardines bottom to top to keep the mouth closed when fishing the sinker rigs. New to me. It's how I used to hook dead Anchovies with a size 4 hook. Fishing Bonito at the mouth of the San Gabriel River. Back in the day.
 
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FishRock

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zzzzz. you would have a shoulder hooked bait spinning unless you went slower then a hot bait swims...much slower...even then it wouldnt look natural.
Doug,

I caught half of my fish last winter swimming shoulder hooked baits back to the boat. The first couple of times I did it I was amazed at how fast they would swim and how lively they still were by the time they got back to me from a relatively long soak. I only did this when I was not in the middle of other anglers. When I was with others I simply knocked the bait off and reeled in the hook.

Your suggestion of swimming a nose hooked bait back to the boat like a hot bait swimming away is great and I will have to give that a go too. I will happily nose hook, shoulder hook, belly hook, back hook ......... whatever gets bit.
 

ZZZZZ

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Dec 11, 2003
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Its not just the connection going through the guides that can disrupt a cast

Its thumbing the spool while casting and the connection is in contact with the thumb. The thumb is feathering the connection bump as the spool is spinning. To be technical

So I like the connection wound onto the side of the spool and not in the middle of the spool. The connection is not touching the side of the spool but very close too. My thumb is more dominant towards the left side of the spool while casting so the connection gets wound onto the right side
 
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FishRock

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I love Pappy’s overhand knot. Yeah I’d say it works. 75 over 200 and 3 over 300 would say it’s pretty solid.
Mike,

Are you saying you actually use an over hand knot to connect spectra to flouro or mono when chasing cows?
 

Bill W

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Jan 12, 2006
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Pappy is Bob Mitchner and that is how he makes his connections. Works for him... if it is not broke, do not fix it.
Mike,

Are you saying you actually use an over hand knot to connect spectra to flouro or mono when chasing cows?
 

potuna

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Jul 23, 2011
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Royal Star, Excel, Royal Polaris, Red Rooster, Shogun and somebody else's.
The love for the FG knot is over hyped.

Its a great knot to tye when you have time and conditions warrant it. On a rolling boat and in a hot bite you will find few tying it.

In fact guys who are fishing really high drag pressures on really mean fish (GT, Dogtooth) are not using this knot.

They use twisted leaders, with albrights and loop to loops. They do it because its fast and as strong as the FG without the hassle of tying an FG.

So yes, if you want a knot that has great strength the FG is the ticket. But for these light drag pressures you are fishing with 2/0 hooks and the like - an albright with the knot outside the guides for casting will work fine and - its really simple to tye.

I still use loop to loops for everything. And I have caught BFT from 30 to 700 pounds on the LtL.

The idea the bait swims better with other connections is anecdotal and personal preference.
Different strokes, I like the fg and always have at least one back up ready to go.
 

JohnTFT

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Different strokes, I like the fg and always have at least one back up ready to go.
And no one is denying its a great knot.

But, there are other methods used for that connection that dont include a knot.

And many people who fish really high drag pressures are knot using the fg knot thats all I am saying.
 

Steve K

Hey, I'm gettin' bit...
Jan 2, 2005
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Mike,

Are you saying you actually use an over hand knot to connect spectra to flouro or mono when chasing cows?
Jeff, after inserting the leader material into the hollow, he ties an overhand knot on the end of the spectra, instead of a serve or crimps. He uses mono with a short piece of fluorocarbon. Heavy fluorocarbon.
 

potuna

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Jeff, after inserting the leader material into the hollow, he ties an overhand knot on the end of the spectra, instead of a serve or crimps. He uses mono with a short piece of fluorocarbon. Heavy fluorocarbon.
Steve I’m not understanding this?
 

Mike Nall

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Boomer
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Mike,

Are you saying you actually use an over hand knot to connect spectra to flouro or mono when chasing cows?
Every trip I go on, I’ve seen it work for Bobby for 7 years, it’s easy enough to do quickly for me, and it works.


Up 3 feet and an overhand knot.

Done.
 

ReelDealAngler-

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Got to remember that Pappy fishes mostly for large YFT ("cows") so he is generally using HEAVY leader... I've fished with him and he also uses BIG reels (50W) that hold lots of line and he has told me straight to my face that he doesn't fight big fish and pull on them real hard like some anglers do... in his own words he says that he "steers them to the boat". His connection is definitely not the strongest (IMO), but it WORKS for him... also have to remember that if you are fishing 130lb line (true ABS most likely higher) and your connection is only 50% strong that's a minimum of 65lbs... and no one reading this can pull 65lbs+ of drag using a bending fishing rod.


IMO, Bob's major reason for his success is he fishes A LOT... and no one puts more time in at the rail than he does, even at his elder age! He also is generally doing something different than the rest, and he likes to fish the balloon off the bow as it gets his bait further away from the boat and further from the other anglers fishing on the boat.;)


G
 
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swami 805

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I used an overhand knot for a connection. Put an overhand knot in the hollow braid, slide the leader about 3’ up, work the loose overhand knot to the end of the leader and tighten it. Just keeps the leader from sliding back out of the braid until there’s enough pressure for the “finger trap” to hold it. Works fine, super fast to do. Ugly as shit and a big lump going thru the guides
 

Cubeye

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Jeff, after inserting the leader material into the hollow, he ties an overhand knot on the end of the spectra, instead of a serve or crimps. He uses mono with a short piece of fluorocarbon. Heavy fluorocarbon.
Yes. I learned that method at Yo's Tackle many years ago. It was one of the first methods of connecting hollow to mono or fluoro.

If the main line was solid, then they inserted it into a short piece of Dacron and connected it to the solid via overhand knot, then inserted the mono into the Dacron and did the overhand knot.

As I recall, Matt Salas, (Salas Lures) was using this method a few years ago. I don't know what he is using now. But it worked very well for him.
 
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Bill W

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no one reading this can pull 65lbs+ of drag using a bending fishing rod.

BS. We've done it many times fighting PEI bluefin on standup gear. Measured afterwards on the Pesola 100lb scale.
True,,, I go to 50# of drag sometimes on my ATD-80 and I am not a big guy.

What I believe is no one can break heavy line on a bent rod with the drag setting placed on the reel. Which brings Bob Mitchner’s overhand knot and the FG or any other connection you can think of into play. If the connection does not slip, it is more than good to land the fish. If the knot does not slip or the crimp does not slip it is more than good to land the fish. Your enemy is time with heavy line.
 
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Tim Turis

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"...and no one reading this can pull 65lbs+ of drag using a bending fishing rod."

On one of our trips to PEI, I hooked into an absolute devil fish from hell! But instead of it being a long skinny YFT on a LR boat weighing 175-225# (IMHO the toughest sized YFT), it was a long skinny BFT estimated at 950#.

By law, the BFT in the PEI catch/release fishery have to be fought/released for less than hour in order to minimize stress on the fish.

Using a stand up harness/pad, a custom Calstar X46XH rod, a Penn 80ST with 1:1 low gear, 200# spectra, and a 200# BHP wind on, I got the fish to the boat in just under an hour where it was successfully released to kick another angler's ass like it did mine! The last 20-25 minutes of the fight were at full drag and I was still having to hold the spool to avoid losing line! After the fight, we checked the drag with a scale and it was 80#s at full. Yes; 80 pounds.

There were five witnesses there; Basil Pappas, Jim Calisle, Ken Cirks, Captain Greg Norton, and Captain Spencer Norton.

We caught larger fish while we were there; Jim got one that Greg/Spencer estimated at 1200#. But I'm not sure that we ever caught one on any of our trips there that pulled any harder.
 

ReelDealAngler-

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No rail either :)
Yeah but the boat moves and the fish is in shallow water so it bottoms out (no place to go other than sideways and then the boat chases it)... most of the time guys fighting those large BFT have their outfit in a ROD HOLDER mounted to the boat and the boat is working the fish NOT the angler he/she is just cranking semi slack line when it becomes available... just like billfish fishing for granders where rod is in a holder but in that application its mounted to a swiveling chair that's mounted to the deck (boat's doing most of the work!).

Try pulling 65lbs of drag with a bent fishing rod on a moving cow YFT on a stationary LR boat that is 90+ feet long. And when I say "pulling" that doesn't mean you are in a sit down harness stance (braced) and the rod is fully bent and there is NO line coming back onto your reel... that's a leverage "tug of war" and you are not even going to be doing that for very long IMO on an LR boat fishing over a waist high rail... show me a video of an LR angler fishing on an LR boat that is using 65lbs of drag and is pulling up and winding down on a large moving tuna and gaining line on it for more than a minute or two at best... and he is a real BIG, strong, muscular, fit, athletic, advanced angler skills guy (my guess is not many of those to be found in the LR arena).

G
 
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ReelDealAngler-

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"...and no one reading this can pull 65lbs+ of drag using a bending fishing rod."

On one of our trips to PEI, I hooked into an absolute devil fish from hell! But instead of it being a long skinny YFT on a LR boat weighing 175-225# (IMHO the toughest sized YFT), it was a long skinny BFT estimated at 950#.

By law, the BFT in the PEI catch/release fishery have to be fought/released for less than hour in order to minimize stress on the fish.

Using a stand up harness/pad, a custom Calstar X46XH rod, a Penn 80ST with 1:1 low gear, 200# spectra, and a 200# BHP wind on, I got the fish to the boat in just under an hour where it was successfully released to kick another angler's ass like it did mine! The last 20-25 minutes of the fight were at full drag and I was still having to hold the spool to avoid losing line! After the fight, we checked the drag with a scale and it was 80#s at full. Yes; 80 pounds.

There were five witnesses there; Basil Pappas, Jim Calisle, Ken Cirks, Captain Greg Norton, and Captain Spencer Norton.

We caught larger fish while we were there; Jim got one that Greg/Spencer estimated at 1200#. But I'm not sure that we ever caught one on any of our trips there that pulled any harder.
That last minutes of the fight... the fish was most likely done (may have been close to DEAD... reason for the 1 hour fighting rule) you were pulling on a worn out fish with boat rope terminal and 80lbs of drag (maybe?) on the reel, but fish are not DEAD weight... they float (seen lots of dead or totally spent fish "floating" on the surface in my 40+ years of sport fishing... some real big ones too!), so you were pulling (leveraging) on a tired, worn out floating fish. Boat was probably moving towards the fish as well.

Do you honestly think you can lift 950lbs of dead weight with a bent fishing rod on 80lbs of drag? I've seen pictures of you and you are not that big of a guy and I don't believe we have found the "fountain of youth" yet and you don't seem like a gym gorilla all jacked up on steroids either... so the math (science) just doesn't add up here with you "pulling" the fish close to the boat (for release) if you get my drift!

G
 
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Bill W

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It is easier to lead a live fish to the boat than to lift a dead one. True... 2 speeds with heavy drag, harness (or rail) spectra and heavy line (fluorocarbon) make it much easier. A chair and a chasing boat and a single fisherman is not a luxury the long range boats have. Different...

I am most proud of a single speed 245# on 80#, no spectra, without a harness, and did not use the rail either but think what Tim did with that PEI tuna is incredible.
 
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