Line in the water = how much drag?

Pitchinwedge

Member
  • Aug 7, 2016
    760
    488
    So Cal
    Name
    Sammie
    Boat
    None
    Trying to get a better understanding of how much pressure actually occurs at the hook.

    We know there's resistance from the line going through the water. More if pulled sideways (lots of scope) and less if pulled straight. But, with enough line out, wouldn't the total amount resistance be huge? Could end up being a much larger factor than the drag output of the reel, no?
     
    Upvote 0

    Shewillbemine

    "should of" is NOT a thing
  • Oct 19, 2012
    2,679
    3,114
    California
    Name
    Shewillbemine
    Boat
    Chips N Guac
    I get what you're asking, but what significance would the answer have for you and how you're fishing? Conventionally, we set the drag with the line out of the water, and unless you're consistently having drag issues, what would it matter regarding water resistance?
     
    Upvote 0

    Omarkayak

    I've posted enough I should know better...
    Jul 26, 2007
    1,301
    662
    Northridge, CA
    Name
    Donald W. Clarke III
    Boat
    11+ ft, Ocean Kayak Scrambler, P 'N' Queue Pod
    Theoretically if you had enough line out (like mega goo-gobs), the friction of the water on the line could break it even if you were in free spool. The effect is real (you can feel it if you trail empty line behind the boat to straighten it out, e.g.) but pretty minimal.

    The more immediate effect is the change in diameter of the line on the spool (how full it is). If a fish takes a big run there's loads more drag with a near empty spool than a full one with the drag at the same setting. Of course you can crank on them like a mother.

    If I could fricken remember any physics I might be able to figure out how much. Something about a moment arm maybe? Of course, at this stage I'm getting to be happy to be able to remember anything about anything. Reckon that's why God invented pens and pencils.

    Good fishin'!
    BDC OK
     
    Upvote 0

    DennisV

    I Should Upgrade My Account
    Jan 4, 2017
    1,023
    1,649
    63
    Paloma, CA
    Name
    Dennis Vagt
    Boat
    Just a NuCanoe Frontier now.
    Was a huge issue way back in the days of straight mono on long running fish like marlin. Backing off the drag was common practice.

    Yet another reason to ditch the long curly mono topshots and fish braid to fluoro. Much easier on your sardine.
     
    Upvote 0

    Pitchinwedge

    Member
  • Aug 7, 2016
    760
    488
    So Cal
    Name
    Sammie
    Boat
    None
    I get what you're asking, but what significance would the answer have for you and how you're fishing? Conventionally, we set the drag with the line out of the water, and unless you're consistently having drag issues, what would it matter regarding water resistance?

    I've had no issues to think of based on how I've been setting everything up. However, I wonder how much I may be over or under utilizing my tackle. Resistance of line through water is just another variable. Glad you get what I'm asking.
     
    Upvote 0

    Pitchinwedge

    Member
  • Aug 7, 2016
    760
    488
    So Cal
    Name
    Sammie
    Boat
    None
    Theoretically if you had enough line out (like mega goo-gobs), the friction of the water on the line could break it even if you were in free spool. The effect is real (you can feel it if you trail empty line behind the boat to straighten it out, e.g.) but pretty minimal.

    Resistance maybe minimal if just a few yards of line behind the boat, but try 100yds+ and the rod goes serious bendo.

    Was a huge issue way back in the days of straight mono on long running fish like marlin. Backing off the drag was common practice.

    Sounds like most of the drag on the fish was being imparted by resistance from the line. How much did you guys have to back off the drags?
     
    Upvote 0

    DennisV

    I Should Upgrade My Account
    Jan 4, 2017
    1,023
    1,649
    63
    Paloma, CA
    Name
    Dennis Vagt
    Boat
    Just a NuCanoe Frontier now.
    Resistance maybe minimal if just a few yards of line behind the boat, but try 100yds+ and the rod goes serious bendo.



    Sounds like most of the drag on the fish was being imparted by resistance from the line. How much did you guys have to back off the drags?
    That's hard to say exactly but quite a bit. Remember we were on smaller private boats and we would have to chase the fish.

    One thing to remember is when you are following a fish, you are only gaining some line back and not wearing the fish out. So what the smart guys did was drive the boat on a parallel course causing a big bow in the line. The bow in the line created drag and also pulled the fish sideways instead of straight back. This resulted in long extended fights that didn't always end well.

    I fished the East Cape with 30lb mono for striped marlin and 50lb if we thought blue marlin were in the area. The few blues I hooked just kicked our butt and I never did land one. Did get many stripers though. Good times back in the 80s on a 18ft cc.
     
    Upvote 0

    DannyNoonan

    Smarter than I look...
    Apr 17, 2007
    1,110
    1,156
    3rd dumpster on the right
    Name
    Jim
    Boat
    Lund LX200 LFC
    “How much pressure actually occurs at the hook” depends greatly on how fast the fish is moving (and currents, drift speed, etc.)…

    Let out a bunch of line behind the boat, and see how much pull/resistance there is when the boat is not moving. As the boat begins to move, the pull increases. With enough line out and/or you start going really fast the line might actually break wherever the weakest point is (probably close to the spool).

    For all intents and purposes, good knots, clean terminal tackle and properly set drag pressures easily absorb these transient increases such that you don’t need to worry too much about it.
     
    Upvote 0

    woodfish330

    I Should Upgrade My Account
  • Aug 14, 2012
    1,636
    3,590
    San Fransisco,CA USA
    Name
    John
    Boat
    Fishead
    Massive amount of research on this subject brothers... I believe SPORTFISHING magazine or MARLIN magazine did a number of articles on this topic complete with charts from actual testing. The numbers they show are truly illuminating. Understanding whats going on "at the hook" side is of great significance. Let me go try and find that info brothers....
     
    • Like
    Reactions: Pitchinwedge

    sickcat

    Silverback
    Aug 5, 2003
    3,738
    1,775
    64
    LA
    Name
    Kerry
    Boat
    Yellow spot
    While there are a number of variables that are hard to calculate (line diameter, line material, angles and the speed the line moves through the water) when you have a lot of line in the water the increased drag from the line being low/lower on the spool so that effect would be cumulative.

    Using spectra unless your going with more drag setting than 1/3 your line test most likely you will stay under than breaking strength of the line even with lot of line in the water.
     
    Upvote 0