legal question about boat ownership for any BD attorney's

Beetlejuice

It's Showtime!
Feb 22, 2006
25
1
3
Redondo Beach
Name
Bob
Boat
25' Chris Craft Highway 61
If 3 people purchased a boat together (Paid cash) all 3 names are on the title and 1 of the persons decides to walk away. We haven't heard from this person for almost 2 years. Out of the blue he sends an e-mail and wants to know how much he owes for his share of the boat expenses for the last 2 years and doesn't want to lose his share of the boat. He walked away under bad curcumstances and what he would owe for slip fees and boat maintenance for the last 2 years would be more then he originally put in to buy the boat. Does he have any rights? and/or what can we do? We do not want him having anything to do with boat anymore. :zelfmoord

PM me if you like.
 

Papa "J"

I've posted enough I should edit this section
May 8, 2003
5,427
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OffShore
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Jason
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Grady White 272 Sailfish
Did you write up a contract?
 

dru

Alleged Conspirator
Oct 4, 2004
1,583
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Squaremont
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Kinda complicated
Boat
Nautique
If his name is on the title, it would seem to me (not an attny) that you need to negotiate with him. Why not just say, "forget the last two years in fees and walk away please?" If he says no, then just come up with a # that persuades him otherwise....

Oh, and probably a good time to get him off the title. Good luck, what a pain in the A$$...
 

mercerm

Member
May 6, 2004
3,055
3
38
Newport Beach
Name
Mike
Boat
24 skipjack
I would reply offering to buy him out for his original purchase price. If he responds in a positive manner, send him a detailed breakdown of the costs showing he is upside down in his equity and ask him for the balance in order to finalize the transaction. Times are tough he is probably looking around for cash. He is expecting a gain not a loss. Then offer to let him out of the debt for signing off of the title.
 

Beetlejuice

It's Showtime!
Feb 22, 2006
25
1
3
Redondo Beach
Name
Bob
Boat
25' Chris Craft Highway 61
Here's the sad part, The other partner which is/was my best friend just passed away last week from Cancer. So all of a sudden this guy comes out of the woodwork. Sad.
P.S. this guy happens to be an attorney himself.
Thanks for the responses.
 

walkerman

I've posted enough I should edit this section
May 7, 2008
3,560
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113
Ventura
Name
Steve
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n/a
Here's the sad part, The other partner which is/was my best friend just passed away last week from Cancer. So all of a sudden this guy comes out of the woodwork. Sad.
P.S. this guy happens to be an attorney himself.
Thanks for the responses.
No contract?

Did your best friend leave his share to anyone in his will?
You may now be in "halfsies" with your long lost part owner.
You need to hire an attorney.
 

Tues

Not my job...
Mar 17, 2008
6,193
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48
Saluki
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Likes
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Penis
If he is an asshole like you described....

Say your boat is worth $10K... He might be thinking two years of expenses would be $2K. He pays, then demands or tries to sell splitting the $10K with you. Now he will gross $3k...Sorry about your friend and I hope he willed the boat to some one of trust.

Another note....Take him mako fishing....:D
 

the hook

Bluesman
Jul 8, 2003
8,320
11
38
65
Skyline Hills
www.springharpfest.org
Name
John
Boat
21' Sea Pro the Hook
I would reply offering to buy him out for his original purchase price. If he responds in a positive manner, send him a detailed breakdown of the costs showing he is upside down in his equity and ask him for the balance in order to finalize the transaction. Times are tough he is probably looking around for cash. He is expecting a gain not a loss. Then offer to let him out of the debt for signing off of the title.
My thoughts, exactly. Well put.
 

gecsr1

28' Aquasport "Reel Adventure II"
Jul 15, 2005
12,104
2,665
113
Poway Ca
Name
Gary
Boat
28' Aquasport "Reel Adventure II" / PlainJaneRods
Sticky Sticky Sticky...... No written agreement, he's an attorney, your 1/3 partner just passed, If he didn't will the boat to someone, or it's passed down to his wife or next to kin, you may have a new partner in the boat...Who is paying all the maintenance and slip fees?
Hopefully you can keep things on a friendly basis or this can be on expensive can of worms.....
 

MikeyLikesIt

did you say F I S H I N G ???
Feb 24, 2003
10,003
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East-a-La-Mesa, baby!
Name
starts with an "M".....
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#1 boat scrubber - Team Madrugador
no reasonable person would expect you to give this asshat even the time of day. He abandoned any interest in that boat, IMHO.

good thing I dont give legal advice, eh? :D
 

Hirame1

Newbie
Dec 13, 2007
445
1
16
Socal
Name
Mike
Boat
Yours
I would reply offering to buy him out for his original purchase price. If he responds in a positive manner, send him a detailed breakdown of the costs showing he is upside down in his equity and ask him for the balance in order to finalize the transaction. Times are tough he is probably looking around for cash. He is expecting a gain not a loss. Then offer to let him out of the debt for signing off of the title.
I like this idea as well.

This is my general understanding.

In regards to the death of your friend, his rights passes under intestate sucession laws of california. Which means it passes to the spouse if he died with out a will, then to the children if any. It should be automatic. Talk to your friends wife and see if he left any instructions in writing such as a will or a holographic will ( will writen in his own handwriting).

I hope you held the title in Tenancy In Common and not joint tenancy.

My guess is that you held it under a joint tenancy like most people in california. Why? Mob mantality.

But this also depends on how you held the title to the boat. Is it under a joint tenancy like most accounts in california.

If so http://library.findlaw.com/2000/Apr/1/129100.html

This is what I found for you. http://www.kinseylaw.com/clientserv2/civillitigationserv/realestate/partition/partition.html
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/civ/678-703.html

Your unwanted fisherman might have some legal rights on the boat based on how you held the title to the boat.

I dont have a boat so I'm not sure how title is held under the boat. If its a like a car then I dont see any difference.

The question is why you guys didnt take care of this early on when you guys decided that both you and your deceased friend no longer wanted him to have any title rights to the boat.

I know its difficult but talk to the guy and see what he says.

My guess is that because he is a lawyer he knows what tittle the boat was held under and he wants to reap on the benifits of one joint tenant dieing. because the deceased joint tenants share (your deceased friend share) passed to both the remaining joint tenant (You and your no longer friend.)

But my guess would be that he would have to pay for what ever you and your friend paid for the slip cost, maintence, DMV title fee's taxes. basically an accounting. I'm sure if you dont have the records the company you paid the money to, since they are in the business and generally speaking business have records.

On a side note, this would suck if you were the guy that is actually the bad guy. I'm just saying and not accusing. Now a days you never know whose who on line.

But being this is bloody decks. Yo ass would be grass if you like to mess around on this board.



Thats my .02
 

fishordie

I've posted enough I should edit this section
Aug 31, 2005
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Calabasas CA
Name
Jamie
Boat
2013 Ranger Z521 with 250 Merc.: Now deceased.. Thank goodness
Be very very careful,

No Contract, No buyout clause and no procedure on how to handle a negligent partner. His arguement could be he did not use the boat and everyone agreed to let him slide on the maintenence and slippage. Hmmmm

Did you or your deceased partner ever send anything in writing, Email or ??? demanding payment. In other words did you notify this person in writing they were defaulting on an oral agreement for 1/3 the fees to be paid by him at all times????

My guess and though I do most of my own legal work but I am NOT an Atty. is drum roll please... Since I assume you did not attempt to foreclose or exercise a lien on his share of the boat due to missed financial obligations and he now offers to bring that share up to date as far as monies owned, you still have him as a 1/3 partner along with the estate or heir of the other partner. If this guy does not pay up, and you will have to show paid receipts and bills to determine his portion owed to date including slippage, then you need to contact an Atty. well versed in partnership law in order to determine your next course of action which could be to excersize a lien on his share of the deal. This could be expensive and lead to a foreclosure sale on his 1/3 share of the boat which of course the only ones willing to pay for it would be you and possibly an heir. If you can prove the validity of the monies owed this would be deducted from the amount due in the buyout up to the value of the buyout itself. Hopefully he will not state he paid you in cash and you took care of all the bills as it sounds like you never contacted him for payment thus you have no written record of the missed payments from him.

As a note:If you had sent a registered letter to his last known address regarding the need for payment you would have been better off as even if the letter was returned due to no forwarding address it would have served as your attempt to notify him of his default. Other methods include using the notification sections of the newspapers classified sections.

Since you have no contract and this guy being an atty. do your best to negotiate him back into or reasonably out of the deal. If there was a life insurance policy on all three partners with the beneficiaries being the remaining owners this could get interesting.

Just as importantly, go onto the internet and look up case law in this regard. You might be surprised to discover other boat partnering cases identical or similar to yours. Read up on the decisions in those cases even before contacting an atty.

Unfortunatly in todays world a handshake or a kiss can lead to the same pain in the ass if the deal is not in writing and even then all contracts are made to be broken. Welcome to the wonderful world of contract law.

As always, if it comes down to it get legal counsel.

Jamie
 

MikeyLikesIt

did you say F I S H I N G ???
Feb 24, 2003
10,003
3,286
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East-a-La-Mesa, baby!
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starts with an "M".....
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#1 boat scrubber - Team Madrugador
just a hypothetical question:

IF this partner who was absent still has 1/3 title to the boat, and wants out, can he FORCE the sale of the boat? Or, only attempt to sell his 1/3?




man, I almost did this a few years back........was advised against it, glad I took the advice.
 

bassspotter

Newbie
Jan 14, 2005
512
1
0
58
poway
Name
Tom
Boat
parker 2520
Has a similar problem with an ex-partner a few years ago. Bought him a bill for his potion, said he couldn't pay it. Gave him two weeks to pay the portion or sign over the title. He sgned it over. Then spent the next two years bitching about it.
 

Beetlejuice

It's Showtime!
Feb 22, 2006
25
1
3
Redondo Beach
Name
Bob
Boat
25' Chris Craft Highway 61
no reasonable person would expect you to give this asshat even the time of day. He abandoned any interest in that boat, IMHO.

good thing I dont give legal advice, eh? :D
__________________
Tough times don't last.......but tough people do.
My thoughts exactly. I will find out details of his will tonight.
 

Hirame1

Newbie
Dec 13, 2007
445
1
16
Socal
Name
Mike
Boat
Yours
I think you also have to find out what title the boat is held under.

Although some law is based on the "reasonble person" standard, its applicablilty can be non-applicable.

I.e if you still think O.J didnt do it then, I dont know who did.

Abandonment can be used as a legal term of art and may have a different meaning from a legal perspective vs. laymans term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abandonment

Abandonment, in law, is the relinquishment or renunciation of an interest, claim, privilege, possession or right, especially with the intent of never again resuming or reasserting it. Such intentional action may take the form of a discontinuance or a waiver. This broad meaning has a number of applications in different branches of law.

I think the word to pay attention here is "intent" since his name is most likely still on the pink slip (assuming its called a pink slip for boats). Then there is no "intent" of abandonment.

Sorry bro

Thats my .02
 

Hirame1

Newbie
Dec 13, 2007
445
1
16
Socal
Name
Mike
Boat
Yours
just a hypothetical question:

IF this partner who was absent still has 1/3 title to the boat, and wants out, can he FORCE the sale of the boat? Or, only attempt to sell his 1/3?




man, I almost did this a few years back........was advised against it, glad I took the advice.

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cacodes/civ/678-703.html

California Real Property Partition Law & Procedure - From Kinsey Law Offices

Termination Of Contenancy Without Legal Action
Death Of A Cotenant: Since the basic characteristic of joint tenancy is the right of survivorship, death of one joint tenant terminates the tenancy.
Transfer Of Joint Tenancy Interest To Other Joint Tenant: A joint tenancy is terminated where one of two such tenants transfers his interest to the other.
Contract Eliminating Right Of Survivorship: Joint tenants may, by a simple contract without any conveyance, agree to eliminate the right of survivorship; the effect will be to terminate the joint tenancy and create a tenancy in common.
Conveyance Of Joint Tenancy Interest To Third Party Party: A conveyance of his interest by one joint tenant to a third party destroys the unity of title and makes the grantee a tenant in common with the other joint tenant.

Civil Code Section 683.2(a): Under C.C. 683.2(a) a joint tenant may, without the joinder or consent of other joint tenants, sever his interest in a joint tenancy in real property by any of the following means:
    1. Execution and delivery of a deed conveying legal title to the joint tenant's interest to a third person (whether or not pursuant to an agreement requiring the third person to reconvey legal title to the joint tenant).
    2. Execution of a written instrument evidencing the intent to [*pg.482] sever the joint tenancy (including a deed that names the joint tenant as transferee).
    3. Execution of a written declaration that the joint tenancy is severed as to the joint tenant's interest.
The means of severance provided by C.C. 683.2(a) are in addition to any other methods by which a joint tenancy may be severed. (C.C. 683.2(a).)

C.C. 683.2(c) states that severance of a joint tenancy of record by deed, written declaration, or other written instrument pursuant to C.C. 683.2(a) does not terminate the right of survivorship of the other joint tenants in the severing joint tenant's interest unless one of the following requirements is satisfied:
    1. Recordation before death of severing joint tenant: The instrument effecting the severance is recorded in the county where the real property is located before the death of the severing joint tenant.
    2. Recordation after death of severing joint tenant: The instrument effecting the severance was executed and acknowledged before a notary by the severing joint tenant not earlier than 3 days before the death of the severing joint tenant, and is recorded in the county where the real property is located not later than 7 days after the death of the severing joint tenant.
 

fatmatt

I'm Over It
Nov 24, 2006
692
28
28
54
Carlsbad
Name
Matt
Boat
22.5 Edge Water EX
This is what Bloodydecks is all about.
Helping others
Its nice to see every once in a while, and best of luck to you Bob.
Do yourself a favor...and dont get mad tonight, as a matter of fact ...dont say anything. Just see what he wants ...and thats it...Get up and leave.
best of luck