Jigging in Pulley Ridge: Yankee Capts: Look, Learn, Find - May 2 - 5

yessokk

Luck favors the well prepared.
Sep 18, 2006
1,058
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Costa Mesa, Cailf
Name
Walt
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11 ft Sears W/Duel 5.2hp
Thanks you sir for the detailed and in depth development process of the new Innovate. You obviously have put a tremendous amount of mental and physical effort into its creation.
Walt
 

benwah22

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Aug 16, 2016
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Benny Ortiz
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Whatever one I'm on.
slated for October.
 
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jonhjax

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Mar 20, 2019
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Ben, I currently have a Gravitate G2. Can you compare/contrast the 8'MH Innovate to the G2? Are the tips of the two rods very different concerning their actions? Thanks very much for your help with this.
 
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jonhjax

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I'll be buying one, but probably later rather than sooner. Which one do I choose, the MH or the H?
 

benwah22

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Whatever one I'm on.
The MH would be the one for you.
 

vancfish

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Nov 12, 2018
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1
25
RVA
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Jack Davis
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14' Jon Boat
Benny, just to clarify the Innovate Rod is made to do the slow pitch technique as well as the long fall technique? I'm just in the learning stages of the slow pitch game but this seems like a pretty cool concept.
 

benwah22

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You are correct, thank you
 

benwah22

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Here's a couple of bendo shots for those wondering about the Innovate's capabilities, and why I designed it the way I did. The Amberjack pictured is what was on the other end of the line for reference:

Attach103952_20190807_111901.jpg
Attach103951_20190807_111901.jpg
IMG_20190802_131610-01.jpeg
 
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J blair

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Jul 6, 2019
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J blair
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Too bad it won't be out for my next trip. The length will help on the YC.
 

jonhjax

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Mar 20, 2019
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Benny, could a two tip rod be made that would have a universal butt section and tip sections from both the MH and H action rods? Would this be feasible and would the action(s) of the rod be up to your standards?
 
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benwah22

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The honest answer is I don't know. I've thought about that idea - having an interchangeable tip section. But, as a practical use, I don't know if it would work. The action of the rod is primarily in the tip portion. However, as a result of different actions, the male end tends to have slightly different diameter which may not allow them to pair.
 
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May 22, 2017
34
23
8
51
Wilson NC
Name
Bryan
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None
did you ever find the breaking point on these new rods? I love the gravitates that I have, but would love to get both of these for the Yankee capts..............and a couple of 600n valiants......those would be sweet
 

benwah22

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The destruction tests were:

11kg (24.25lbs) at 45 degrees for the 8'0 MH Innovate

13kg (28.66lbs) at 45 degrees for the 7'8 H Innovate

That being said, it's still more efficient to point and crank, and likely better on the rod, but these rods can take some heat. They are not indestructible, however they are significantly stronger than what would be considered a traditional slow pitch rod.
 

jonhjax

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The honest answer is I don't know. I've thought about that idea - having an interchangeable tip section. But, as a practical use, I don't know if it would work. The action of the rod is primarily in the tip portion. However, as a result of different actions, the male end tends to have slightly different diameter which may not allow them to pair.
I thought you might have to create a whole new rod to use multiple tip sections with. It would be convenient, though, to say the least. On a Pulley Ridge trip, for example, you could use one tip for deep water and another for on top of the ridge with lighter jigs. I can dream, can't I? Maybe this could be another project between you and Temple Reef? BTW, I tried the Wolverine Triple Split Rings that you mentioned in one of your seminars and they are sweet!! I also own Owner, Decoy and Spro split rings but the Wolverines are all I'll probably use from now on. Perhaps you'll share more secrets like this for the rest of us, maybe a slow pitch "top gear" thread or something like that in the future, or maybe I'll start one and hope you'll contribute to it.
 

bchen

Newbie
Jul 20, 2009
18
3
3
Northern California
Name
Bernard Chen
Boat
Hobie Revo
The reels are Accurate Valiant 500n with a factory long-arm. I primarily use 30lb 8-strand J-braid when I jig, and the 500n holds approximately 500yards.
Benny, can you write more about your line selection and drag setting?

With 30# line, I would have set the drag to 9#. I'm inferring that you're using closer to the 30# the Valiant 500n actually outputs. Did I get that right?

What are you doing to keep the fish from breaking the line? Your 50# AJ should have been big enough.
 
May 22, 2017
34
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51
Wilson NC
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Bryan
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None
Not Benny, but 30 lbs braid is not like mono...I think I have seen that 30 lbs braid can break anywhere from 46 lbs up to 50 or so depending on the brand. I generally fish a 40 lbs fluoro leader so I can fish s pretty good drag and not worry about much.
 
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benwah22

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Aug 16, 2016
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Benny Ortiz
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Whatever one I'm on.
Benny, can you write more about your line selection and drag setting?

With 30# line, I would have set the drag to 9#. I'm inferring that you're using closer to the 30# the Valiant 500n actually outputs. Did I get that right?

What are you doing to keep the fish from breaking the line? Your 50# AJ should have been big enough.
I don't focus on the stated breaking strength of the line, but rather the actual breaking strength that we've achieved through testing. Bigcountry1969 is correct. The breaking strength of 30lb J-Braid 8 Strand is about 46lbs, give or take. I'll fish somewhere around 12-15lbs of drag at strike usually, and rely heavily on the reel's precision lever to increase or decrease drag as needed - and always relying on an educated thumb when needed.
 

yessokk

Luck favors the well prepared.
Sep 18, 2006
1,058
1,285
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Costa Mesa, Cailf
Name
Walt
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11 ft Sears W/Duel 5.2hp
30# braid is an optimal choice but knot tying skill is what separates the successful. That knot between the braid and the leader is the most difficult in fishing. The strongest and slimmest join knot is the PR knot. Tied correctly it is a 90-100% knot The FG knot runs a close second. In the early days of spectra that inherent difficulty has been the root cause of anglers upping their braid strength to absurd levels. Anglers kept breaking that join knot,,, so to compensate they kept increasing braid strength until their
sub par knots stop beaking. That thinking still pervades today. See guys all the time using 60-80 spectra to fish for 25 lb Yellow Tails.

So to do the math Mr. Benny's 15# of drag is still a good amount below what could safely be applied. 50% of 44lbs is 22#, drags set at 22 would still have , say 15# of overhead for protection. Could run 30 in an emergency but would guess that would very rarely ever be necessary. This depends of course on the ABS of the leader material used.

Walt

Have been testing knots and lines since 2004 and the above suggestion has proven itself many times.

IMG_0232.JPG
 
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tugasangler

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Apr 9, 2016
835
331
63
Virginia
Name
James
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Yankee Capts
30# braid is an optimal choice but knot tying skill is what separates the successful. That knot between the braid and the leader is the most difficult in fishing. The strongest and slimmest join knot is the PR knot. Tied correctly it is a 90-100% knot The FG knot runs a close second. In the early days of spectra that inherent difficulty has been the root cause of anglers upping their braid strength to absurd levels. Anglers kept breaking that join knot,,, so to compensate they kept increasing braid strength until their
sub par knots stop beaking. That thinking still pervades today. See guys all the time using 60-80 spectra to fish for 25 lb Yellow Tails.

So to do the math Mr. Benny's 15# of drag is still a good amount below what could safely be applied. 50% of 44lbs is 22#, drags set at 22 would still have , say 15# of overhead for protection. Could run 30 in an emergency but would guess that would very rarely ever be necessary. This depends of course on the ABS of the leader material used.

Walt

Have been testing knots and lines since 2004 and the above suggestion has proven itself many times.

View attachment 1062043

I think I’ve seen that board on YouTube. If that’s true thank you very much for your contributions
 

benwah22

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Aug 16, 2016
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Benny Ortiz
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Whatever one I'm on.
I have a mantra for fishing: never lose a fish due to a preventable error. I always, always make sure my connections are perfect (or as close to perfect as I can get them within my ability).

I use a PR knot. Like Walt said, it's almost 100% when tired correctly. Here's what my line connection looks like:

IMG_20190623_091055-01.jpeg
 

bchen

Newbie
Jul 20, 2009
18
3
3
Northern California
Name
Bernard Chen
Boat
Hobie Revo
Thanks BigCountry, Walt, and Benny.

Line theory needs to be a single, stickied post somewhere.

Why use 30# vs 50#? Is the trade off of 6# additional pressure vs drag in the water (because of larger diameter) not worth it?

...and congrats on the new rods, Benny!
 

benwah22

Well-Known "Member"
Aug 16, 2016
283
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Name
Benny Ortiz
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Whatever one I'm on.
Thank you.

To answer the question, it's not worth it. Braid rarely breaks in a straight line pull. It breaks from abrasion. If you're in structure far enough where your braid is rubbing, you've already lost the fight.

Staying vertical is far more important.
 
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