Is There a Reason Most LR Captains Tell Everyone to Fish 130?

Discussion in 'San Diego Long Range fishing Reports' started by FishRock, Jan 6, 2017.

  1. $norkle

    $norkle Well-Known "Member"

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    This discussion serves to point out a couple of contrasts. It was correctly pointed out that Captains and crew have somewhat different perspectives than some anglers. They want/need to report good catch numbers. Anglers also want to catch fish, but also want to hook fish. The next question is what is 130#? Not all brands have the same breaking strength. Same with 100#. I've come to think that abrasion resistance is probably more important than the difference between two line tests. And is breaking strength even an issue? Unless your drag seizes, you can't break 100# (more on that below). I'd wager that more big fish are lost because of either failed connections or prolonged abrasion from teeth. I won't fish sardines with any heavier fluoro than 100# because I want the bait to swim well, and more importantly want to get bit more frequently. I still get my share of cows. Do I go heavier with other baits like skippies----absolutely, but that's another issue. Here's something to try--- rig an outfit with a 100# fluoro topshot and whatever hook you prefer. Attach the hook to something immobile like a tree, a volkswagon, or whatever and then start pulling on it with your normal drag setting. Hint: you're not going to break the line. You can't break the line. Do it for a half hour or more and you'll have the same result. That's why we fish with reels that have drags. Now occasionally you encounter a fish that simply will not let itself be stopped, and for those fish it matters very little whether you're fishing 100# or 130#------you'll still have to go to a backup. That's just the thrill of fishing. Just me personally, I'd rather catch more fish, including some cows like I mentioned above, than fewer fish just on the one-in-a-million chance of hooking a 350# fish. And if that big one comes along, I'd love to do battle with my 100#, even if I lost.
     
  2. Brad I

    Brad I Common Sense Isn't Common Enough

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    Having been lucky enough to fish with Bruce several times, I can state that this statement is false--he catches well more than his share of fish. If he suggests something, its worth listening to.
     
  3. Steve K

    Steve K Hey, I'm gettin' bit...

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    100 vs 130. As Bill said, it's more than diameter, which has more to do with breaking strength. Abrasion resistance is more of a hardness rating I suppose and softer, more supple line apparently will have less abrasion resistance. How Blackwater 100 lb is more abrasion resistant than 130 lb Premier. Wonder how 100 lb Blue Label stacks up against 100 lb Blackwater?
     
  4. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

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    Steve, I think a test method should be thought up. And use line diameter as the level of the test. But to be honost we all have our preferences without hard evidence. At first glance you would think the thinnest diameter per pound test is what you want, then how easy it is to work with. But thinking on another level is it is not about the initial pound test, but how much chew resistance it has. That has diameter and abraision resistance the factor. Still with all those factors, expierence in getting bit is also very important.

    What I like about Blackwater 100# (and 80#) is it gets bit for me and has really good abraision. Over 100# I really like Yozuri cause it cost less and I worry less about the abraision factor, easy to work with and it also gets bit well.

    I think one factor with fluorocarbon that is missed is it's sink rate fishing sardines. Just seems to me although Blackwater is harder to work with, it is more dense than other brands.
     
    Last edited: Jan 7, 2017
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  5. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    Makai is made by Toray as is Blackwater. The abrasion resistance is extremely high on both products. We have been using 130 and 150 Makai to catch GBFT here in the north east. Almost never use circle hooks as well. I am amazed when I see the line after a big one is landed. It looks perfect.

    Seaguar has its place. Premier gets bit in a pick bite. Blue Label has good abrasion resistance. The Toray stuff is a whole different ball game.
     
  6. Squid Sammich

    Squid Sammich Well-Known "Member"

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    I work in an industrial instrumentation shop in a refinery. Testing and calibrating extremely precise instruments and valves is part of my business. I can easily set up a repeatable bench test with a pneumatic piston providing accurate pull ratings. I will brainstorm and see if I can think of an accurate repeatable way to introduce and control abrasion to various fluoro samples under load.

    If someone has any ideas please feel free to share and I will start testing as soon as I can.
     
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  7. SouthBayKiller

    SouthBayKiller I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    I was thinking about this earlier and thought about passing a metal file or rasp pressed across the tensioned line (say 20-30lb of weight on each line). Keeping the pressure applied and angle on the rasp equal should provide a repeatable test. Perhaps reporting the number of strokes with the rasp to cause failure?

    Pretty similar to a knot test, except instead of changing the tension, you are in essence changing the line diameter and measuring the effort needed to hit the critical failure point.

    Also just being able to see each line closeup after each pass and compare the visible results may shed some light.
     
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  8. tunachris

    tunachris Member

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    I also use Yo-zuri 100 lb. with sardines. I don't believe its a matter of the breaking strength of the line due to the pulling of a fish. If your drags set right that's a non-issue. Where failure occurs during a long drawn out fight, is due to the line wearing down from being dragged across the gill rakers of the tuna. I know you must pace yourself during a long fight, but if the fish isn't taking line, you had better be gaining line back.

    There is no way to avoid the fact that the first couple of feet of line are going to endure the most abuse on a big fish. Changing the rod angle as much as possible during the fight can help, but using as heavy a line as you can, and using every trick possible to shorten the fight can only help.
     
  9. Squid Sammich

    Squid Sammich Well-Known "Member"

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    Robert I've been thinking about something just along those lines. Keeping the angle and pressure the same for sach stroke may be a little tricky. I'm thinking some type of jig to guide it for repeatability.
     
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  10. Bill W

    Bill W tunaholic

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    I was thinking about a 20# weight guided through a couple nails and a orbital sander pushed up against the line. Then timed.
     
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  11. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    Matt,

    I think its done with sand paper over a cylinder. You need a machine to cycle the line over the sandpaper. A weight (same for all tests) is attached to the line to keep constant repeatable tension.

    I believe the sandpaper has to be changed for every sample.

    More cycles more abrasion resistance.
     
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  12. Squid Sammich

    Squid Sammich Well-Known "Member"

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    We have a huge machine shop I'm sure we already have, or I can make a reciprocating arm. Question is 80 grit? 50? 35?
     
  13. JohnTFT

    JohnTFT Insomniac

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    Not an engineer. But for our purposes it doesnt matter. As long as its the same sample for all tests right?
     
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  14. Squid Sammich

    Squid Sammich Well-Known "Member"

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    Pretty much....
     
  15. hagridfish

    hagridfish Well-Known "Member"

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    JMHO.I always liked Blackwater. Harder to work with, very stiff, etc...
    When Blackwater was almost impossible to get, I tried the Izor stuff. It worked OK. Then last year on the Kens Custom Reels charter, I tried some of the new Berkley stuff. Not wiry, like blackwater, easier to tie, I didn't lose any fish to bite offs, so all the top shots I have for my trip this year are Berkley. Again, just to give it a try. After the trip, maybe I will have more info. Run the top shots past Fishy, and Soda-pop. See what they think.
     
  16. Bearwell

    Bearwell Newbie

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    Might want to think about liquid cooling or immersion. Heat has a significant effect on these lines so it would be more realistic in seawater.

    Chris
     
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  17. harddrive

    harddrive Wish I Was Fishing!

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    Ever see the leader after a fight. The end near the hook turned a bit more translucent and that is where I believe is the weak spot. With the short leader to spectra and spectra with very minimal stretch. Something has to give and the end of the leader does the most stretching. So 130 would give you more strength after being stretched and turned translucent.

    Also sometimes, it's better to get bit and take a chance then to not get bit, so sometimes you have to do what you have to do. :)
     
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  18. ripped

    ripped I've posted enough I should edit this section

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    What about making a test jig. 1st making a wooden base and attach a coat wire or heavy rod vertically. Then use 2 larger egg sinkers with star lock washers epoxied to one end of each sinker. Perhaps using several washers of graduated sizes so they fit inside each other increasing the abrasive surface area.I would epoxy the washers while the sinkers are mounted on the jig ensuring alignment. glueing one side at a time ( on the bottom ) ensuring the epoxy doesn't flow over the teeth of the washers. Also use some wax paper between sides preventing adhesion to the opposing side.

    You then mark the wire/ rod at a given height for repeatable striking force. Then place the jig under the tensioned line and test away.
     
  19. Fishybuzz

    Fishybuzz fishybuzz

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    Thanks......I agree 100% with $norkle ......my default line is 100# mono and Flouro and the diameter is what really matters not the label......a couple of us have tested almost all the different FC and monos and found what the actual breaking strengths are....and they all correlate closely to the diameter of the line.

    I shouldn't jinx myself but I have NEVER been chewed off using circle hooks. I too have caught my share of cows and large tuna over 150#....Your tackle must be perfect drags, guides, line and connections and hook choice all factor into success and failure.....in then there is good giant YFT fighting technique which you will only acquire with experience.

    I really like getting bit so I use 100# 75% of the time with sardines...if the current is real good and the fish are snapping I may go to 130# with a sardine.
     
  20. Holi-e-Mackeral

    Holi-e-Mackeral Holi-e-Mackeral

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